The Sins of Baal vs The Sins of America

[MalkyEL]

You are right that God used nations to punish nations before Christ, because Isra'el was under the umbrella of national salvation.

Salvation is no longer a national issue. We are each responsible for our relationship with God.

The body of Messiah is the only "community" that God has authorized to do His work.  We will be judged for our lack and held accountable for our failings.

America is not the body of Messiah.  It is a nation that has always been presumed to originate as a God fearing country. This is a major deception and why so many name themselves as Christians, when in fact they have not a clue as to the meaning of the word.

Religious freedom in this country was provided for us by God to do His purpose.  A means to the end.  Which proves that God will use just about anything to get His work done, in spite of us, not because of us - may His Name be praised forever.

Shalom, Nana

[MalkyEL]

Pastor Roger wrote:
Be sure to drink a whole pot yourself.  

Nana:
Actually I have offered to share the pot many times.  Not too many takers though.  I don't mind.  The truth is hard to grasp for some  

The nice thing about reality coffee is that it never goes bad on ya - always nice and fresh, ready to pour for anyone who wants a cup  

Shalom, Nana

[darwinatridge]

Religious freedom in this country was provided for us by God to do His purpose.  A means to the end.  Which proves that God will use just about anything to get His work done, in spite of us, not because of us - may His Name be praised forever.

Shalom, Nana

How right you are. He has to work for His purpose in spite of us. We keep messing things up. But it is because of us that Jesus had to die. By the way, too much coffee makes me sick. Just like to much of anything from this world. As for national salvation, I'm pretty sure that if it is possible God will bring it about. I'm a little slow at times but try reading 1Timothy  2:1-6 I urge, then, first of all, that request, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone- for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in godliness and holiness. This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men-the testimony given in its proper time.

[MalkyEL]

darwinatridge,
I like 1 Tim 2:1-6.  You are right, we are to pray for those in leadership - but I don't get the connection between that and a national/corporate move towards God.

Jesus said the path is narrow and few find it.  He also said that many will fall away.  I do not believe that prayer will change what He has prophecied.  Jesus makes it very clear that life will get extremely ugly and I believe we are in the beginning stages of it.

Reality coffee never goes bad on ya.  The more you have, the more you want.

PS: reality coffee is TRUTH.

PS:  what does your nickname mean? dying of curiosity  

Shalom, Nana

[darwinatridge]

I am a realist. Do I believe that all men will repent and turn to God? No I don't but that is what Christ died for. So that all men may make that personnel choice. That is what freedom of choice is really all about. True freedom comes with responsibility. If we attempt to throw away that responsibility then we throw away our freedom. My first name is Darwin and I live in Ridgecrest, CA. I've had many commits about my first name but it is the name God gave me through my parents.

[MalkyEL]

yes, Darwin, we are free to make the choice.

Do you agree that it is the Holy Spirit that opens the heart to belief in Jesus as Savior?

Responsibility is something that many walk away from - which is why we are in the condition that we are.

There is nothing wrong with your name - it means "dear friend"  

Shalom, Nana

[darwinatridge]

Yes, I do agree. The Holy Spirit is the promised seal that God gives to all His children. He is our moral compass and much more. It is sad to know that so many people reject that. But that is one of the reasons that He is there for us. To help us pray for those that are lost. Many are called and few will answer that call but we still need to be praying for them.

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

Very generally, I would like to add 2 cents worth here, certainly not for the purpose of contention.

Psalms 33:12  Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

In my opinion, God has richly blessed America in the past, but I don't understand why God continues to bless us. As a nation, I think that we did try to live UNDER GOD for over 200 years. I'm not suggesting anything worthy of God's Blessing, nor would I suggest that any individual Christian is worthy of God's Blessings. However, most of our history has been one where the vast majority of the nation and its leaders had GOD as their LORD. There was a time when America was most definitely known as a Christian nation. Again, I'm not suggesting being worthy or pure. We, as individual Christians, are not worthy or pure.

TODAY, it doesn't surprise me at all that much of the world views America as evil. We still have a large percentage of Christians, but I would question how many actually stand up for right and wrong these days. I would ask them if their silence was an encouragement for evil. I would also ask some who claim to be Christians why they put their stamp of approval on evil and participate.

I doubt there are very many Christians who still consider America to be a Christian nation. I don't, but I fondly remember times of the past when our nation was much closer to God. TODAY, our nation has turned its back on God, and many Christians are still silent. I don't pretend to place percentages or statistics as evidence of a Godly nation. Only God can do that. Regardless, I would say that America is no longer worthy of God's Blessings. An outsider looking in would say that America is worthy of God's wrath. An insider Christian with reality glasses on would come to the same conclusion.

NOW, maybe the purpose for this thread: Can Christians pray and work in the attempt to return to God? YES!!!, we can and we should. It's a fight to try, and we are supposed to try. Will we succeed? I will simply say that the Gospel of the Grace of God is never wasted. The Holy Spirit (RESTRAINER) is still with us, but God hasn't imprisoned satan and evil yet. God will do just that at His appointed time, and that time is not now. I would say this is not an excuse for Christians to sit down, be silent, or let the devil roam free without our opposition. We are to do the opposite and fight a good fight until Christ calls us Home. YES!!!!, we are to fight, but we won't win. Our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, WILL WIN!!! at His appointed time.

Just 2 cents worth.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Brother Love]

Pastor Roger,

ahhhhh ...........  you are not convinced .........

maybe I should brew up some more reality coffee?


Shalom, Nana

Be sure to drink a whole pot yourself.

 

[MalkyEL]

oopss ...........    hit the wrong button  

[MalkyEL]

BEP wrote:
Just 2 cents worth.

Nana:
Thanx Tom, it was worth a lot more than that - good perspective  

darwinatridge wrote:
Many are called and few will answer that call but we still need to be praying for them.

Nana:
Amen  

[darwinatridge]

Sounds like we are all in agreement that we need to be doing a whole lot of praying. Thanks Tom! And to all of you for your imput on this debate.

[Sulfurdolphin]

 Remeber in Genesis when God told Abraham that many nations will be blessed by him.

Despite the circumstances in america we are still a Blessed country. God says he who blessed Israel will be blessed and he who curses Israel will be cursed. I will point out that America is the back bone in supporting Israel and in that God has blessed America. Yes mankind will always remain evil but where there is evil there is always Rightous people who will fight against evil. There will always be pornography and abortion and murders and etc but that only shows the bankruptcy of man living without God. But that does not show that america is not blessed because sin exist without evil there cannot be righteousness and therefore no blessings.

America was founded on Biblical Morality and point of Reference and nothing else and that is another partial reason why America has always been a wealthy and productive nation of freedom.

Always i want to point out that Salvation is still very universal remeber the OT prophecies tell us that one day all of the jewish people who have not accepted Yeshua as Messiah will be saved. Also all of Egpyt will be saved.

Zechariah 14:16-19

Michael

[MalkyEL]

Sulfurdolphin wrote:
 
God says he who blessed Israel will be blessed and he who curses Israel will be cursed. I will point out that America is the back bone in supporting Israel and in that God has blessed America.

Nana:
The premise of God blessing those who bless Isra'el has no validity in the NT Covenant.  The nation/country of Isra'el is not God's chosen people as a nation.  Each person must come to Messiah - there is no national salvation. There are only two kinds of people.  In the Vine, or not of the Vine, period.

All of Isra'el being saved does not refer to every single Jew that has ever lived.  As Paul said, not all of Isra'el is Isra'el, but only those grafted into the Vine - there is no more Jew and Gentile, male or female, slave or free in Jesus.  Jesus is the Root, not Isra'el.

And please, do not take my words as anti-Semitic.  It is true that God will bring into the Vine a vast number of Jews at the end of this age.  This will be God's doing, not man's.  Only the Holy Spirit convicts.

Although it appears as if America was founded on Biblical Morality - and that God has blessed this nation - it is NOT due to the fact that we have done anything righteous or deserved His blessing.  Man can do *nothing* to earn blessings from God - that are due entirely and only on His grace.

It was His purpose to use this country, but that does not make us better than anyone else - it only makes us blessed.  Instead of gratitude we have thrown what He has given back in His face, and blasphemed His Holy Name.  God will not contend with man forever.  America's days are numbered.

All of Eygpt saved??? I don't think we are reading the same Bible.

Zeh 14:16 ¶ And it shall be, everyone who is left of all the nations which came up against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, whoever will not come up from all the families of the earth to Jerusalem to worship the King, Jehovah of hosts, even on them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up, nor come in, they shall have no rain, but the plague with which the LORD shall strike the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
19 This shall be Egypt's offense, and the offense of all the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.


Shalom, Nana
   

[Sulfurdolphin]

 God's blessings of those who bless Israel are very concrete in the NT. When God fulfilled the Torah He fullfilled it to the very Tee and Tittle.

The nation/country of Israel are God's chosen people as a nation. All the Jews living in the world today and in Israel are God's Royal Priest Hood and Royal nation. I realize you dont mean to make this sound anti semetic Nana but truth in reality is to say the Jews are not God's chosen people is in fact anti semetic statement. The Old Covenant reveals they are God's chosen people. Even Romans chapter 11 talks about God's chosen People. and Romans chapter 9. And

Romans chapter 11:25-36

and Psalm 11:6-7 this is a future prophecy that has yet come. Still God blesses those who bless the Jews and the Nation of Israel and our prayers to them and to the land do not come out void.

It is true for now that each person has to come to the Messiah for salvation and it's the work of the Holy Spirit that draws them unto the Messiah. Remeber at the end times when the Messiah comes and shows the nation of Israel His hand then all of Israel Nationally will become saved. But for now it is indivually.

When the Messiah does come God will say AMMI HU ('it is My people') and he shall say Jehovah Elohio ('Jehovah is my God.')

In Isaiah 44:7  God has called them "AM OLAM," the "everlasting people"

When the Messiah comes they will all say "Blessed is HE that cometh in the Name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest!.

Michael