Kerry, do you want him as pres

[Marv]

Hi,

I'm new here, but I thought the user agreement was that things posted would be factual.  More importantly, I thought the user agreement with God was for facts too.

George Soros never spoke at the Dem convention.  See the entire list of speakers at:  http://www.dems2004.org/site/pp.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=92959

Before you keep spreading stuff around about Kerry, why not spend a little time at the urban myths and legends page.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/kerry.asp

There's plenty of lies spread from people on both sides in this campaign.  Christians have a duty not to be a part of that.

Marv

[sincereheart]

Galatians 6:1
Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently.

 

[musicllover]

Hi,

I'm new here, but I thought the user agreement was that things posted would be factual.  More importantly, I thought the user agreement with God was for facts too.

George Soros never spoke at the Dem convention.  See the entire list of speakers at:  http://www.dems2004.org/site/pp.asp?c=luI2LaPYG&b=92959

Before you keep spreading stuff around about Kerry, why not spend a little time at the urban myths and legends page.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/kerry.asp

There's plenty of lies spread from people on both sides in this campaign.  Christians have a duty not to be a part of that.

Marv

Marv,
          You are right Soros didn't speak at the DNC, but the post was speaking about the
 
"Taking Back America" convention found at this address if you want to see if its real.
http://www.ourfuture.org/projects/national_conference/2004/press/pr_adv20040526.cfm

Mr Soros was a speaker at that convention, you misread what was in the post.

 I did go to the site offered at, www.moveon.org it does a great job of trashing the President. Money from this man Soros,  any donations to the moveon site is supporting Kerry, obvisouly.

As far as lies, isn't that a matter of opinion? As far as this being a Christian site, yes your are right. That is why I posted this, Kerry doesn't belong in the white house, or as Pres of this country, since he upholds the right to abortions and homosexuality........not to mention the zillion of political agendas that he can't seem to make up his mind he is for or against.
    As in any election one should pray for what God wants, and then pray for the man that gets put into office. We can surely agree on that point.

      No need to aplogize for your error. Check out the site or look below, I cut and pasted the first part of the speakers list.


CAMPAIGN FOR AMERICA'S FUTURE'S
"TAKE BACK AMERICA" CONFERENCE
Thursday, June 3, 2004 Highlights

WASHINGTON, D.C.

THURSDAY, JUNE 3
9:25 a.m.

   George Soros addresses thousands of activists
   at the Campaign for America's Future's "Take Back America"
   conference.

   Marriott Wardman Park Hotel Ballroom,
   2660 Woodley Road, NW

   OPEN PRESS
   Camera preset:   8:45 a.m.
   Final access:   9:15 a.m.
   Throw:      65 feet



musicllover

[musicllover]

THis is an abbrevated protion of what Mr Soros does with his mone.......for the full report please go to site........

 
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0825/p11s01-ussc.html

.........That kind of capital translates, of course, into significant social sway. And billionaires have long used the weight of their money to effect change, through philanthropy and, yes, politics. But perhaps none has set so overt a political agenda as Soros has this year.

The man who in 2000 reportedly gave $122,000 to political candidates - mostly, but not exclusively, Democrats - has become consumed with getting President Bush and his administration voted out of office. To do so, he has traversed the country over the past year, standing up at small town-hall meetings, rallies, and benefits to voice his concerns and implore other Americans to join his fight......


THis is the kind of person who wants kerry in office, do we want that kind of Person with that kind of money getting anyone in office? Least of Kerry

[Marv]

I am sorry over the misunderstanding on where Soros spoke, I thought the quotes meant that was the theme of the convention.  

I read his speach that he gave, and it certainly sounded different than what was posted, but I suppose he may have said those things somewhere.

The part of his speach that stood out to me was his belief that fascism and communism have a common ground, that they believe they have the ultimate truth and they want to impose it on the rest of the world.  That the alternative is an open society, a democracy.

Anyway, I'm not a big reader of anything he's done, so I can't say he's never said any of those things, he just didn't say most of them in that speech.

Did you read the urban legends pages on Kerry, your postings are there pretty completely, except there Kerry only has 5 mansions not seven.

What do you think about both candidates belonging and being evidently proud of their membership in Skull and Bones.  Neither would be eligable for membership in our congregation due to that.

Marv

[musicllover]

I am sorry over the misunderstanding on where Soros spoke, I thought the quotes meant that was the theme of the convention.  

I read his speach that he gave, and it certainly sounded different than what was posted, but I suppose he may have said those things somewhere.

The part of his speach that stood out to me was his belief that fascism and communism have a common ground, that they believe they have the ultimate truth and they want to impose it on the rest of the world.  That the alternative is an open society, a democracy.

Anyway, I'm not a big reader of anything he's done, so I can't say he's never said any of those things, he just didn't say most of them in that speech.

Did you read the urban legends pages on Kerry, your postings are there pretty completely, except there Kerry only has 5 mansions not seven.

What do you think about both candidates belonging and being evidently proud of their membership in Skull and Bones.  Neither would be eligable for membership in our congregation due to that.

Marv

Marv,
          I have read several different artciles some say Kerry has 7 mansions and others say 5. LOL......I would think one would be enough. But then I don't have a mansion so who am I to say, 5 is enough.
      I have no idea what skull and bones are, or if either man belongs to this group, thing, or what ever.
      I'm alomst hestitant to ask......what is this?
       Honestly I don't want to see Kerry in office, because he believes in abortion, homosexuality, and mostly because its seems that most democrats (not just Kerry) wants God removed from this country, democrats judges have tried to rule out things like.... In God we Trust, or won't let the 10 commandments be displayed, Nativity etc etc etc.. We need a man that will keep God the priority and focus of this country. Of the choices we have for this election Bush is my man.
musicllover
   

[Marv]

Skull and Bones is the highest secret society at Yale.  There are 15 juniors tapped by seniors to be members, the highest honor goes to the one tapped last.  (George W. Bush was last)  Many claim its origins are in the Illuminati.  If it's origins are not the Illuminati, they certainly share many things.   The group at Yale is supposed to be the second chapter, the first being German.

The initiates undergo rites of initiation are given secret names and give an oath allegiance to the order they swear total obedience and loyalty to the society.  That oath repeals all past oaths and any future oaths are void.  So they can take any oath, such as the oath of office for President, and according to their society be free from that oath.  Their only binding oath is their allegience to the Order and the New World Order.

The initial rite starts with the initiate being carried into the room of the other members naked in a coffin where the initiate recounts all his past sexual experiences.  

They undergo a ritualistic death and are re-born.  So if any member is asked if he is born again, the answer is a yes.  They have died to the world and been reborn into the Order.  They are given secret names like Magog and Boaz and Beelzebub.

This all takes place in their windowless building the "Tomb."  Most of the Tomb is covered in black velvet, except room 322 the sanctum santorium which is covered in red velvet and has a pentagram on the wall.

Among other things in the Tomb are human skulls, it was rumored for years that George Bush's grandfather Prescott had stolen Geronimo's skull as part of his initiation but it has not been proven.  The skull provided for testing by the society in a court case did not prove to be Geronimo's.  To whom it belonged we will probably never know.

The stronge German ties of the society seem to have weakened over time.  Prescott Bush had his bank seized by the US government during WW II for financing the Nazi's.  Since then the ties are less evident, though there were many Skull and Boners involved in the intelligence community that let many Nazi's escape at the end of the war.

There are entire books written about it.  A lot of info is available on the web.  Just type in skull and bones in your favorite search engine and you will find plenty.

I just wonder how a person can belong to a secret society which conducts Satanic rituals and claim to be a Christian.  I must admit also wondering about those that support him on the basis of his being a Christian, I could see it if he renounced the Order, but both candidates are still quite evidently proud of their accomplishment in belonging.

Marv

[nChrist]

Marv,

From what little I know about Skull and Bones, it appears to be something silly and childish Kerry and Bush did WAY BACK in college. It was and is a college fraternity.

If potential candidates for President were judged for everything they did in their teens, I doubt we would be able to find any worthy candidates.

However, there is a massive amount of information to look at that involves recent actions, those of an adult. Words from their own mouths in recent years is more than enough for me. Then, one adds their recorded actions in recent years, and it makes a picture album they each made for themselves without any help from anyone. I doubt that anyone needs the distortion from grossly biased news media.

I doubt that I will pay much attention to what happened 30+ years ago. If I did, I would wind up with two words:  Hanoi John. Kerry made a huge mistake in trying to make folks think about 30+ years ago. The election should be about the here and now, but that looks even worse for Kerry. Kerry's biggest and most difficult debate is with himself. If this wasn't about the office of President, Kerry could get paid big bucks for comedy. Kerry can play himself, and nobody knows who he is or what he stands for.

Tom

[Shammu]

Hanoi John. Kerry made a huge mistake in trying to make folks think about 30+ years ago. The election should be about the here and now, but that looks even worse for Kerry. Kerry's biggest and most difficult debate is with himself. If this wasn't about the office of President, Kerry could get paid big bucks for comedy. Kerry can play himself, and nobody knows who he is or what he stands for.

Tom

And thats a post.

[musicllover]

Skull and Bones is the highest secret society at Yale.  There are 15 juniors tapped by seniors to be members, the highest honor goes to the one tapped last.  (George W. Bush was last)  Many claim its origins are in the Illuminati.  If it's origins are not the Illuminati, they certainly share many things.   The group at Yale is supposed to be the second chapter, the first being German.

The initiates undergo rites of initiation are given secret names and give an oath allegiance to the order they swear total obedience and loyalty to the society.  That oath repeals all past oaths and any future oaths are void.  So they can take any oath, such as the oath of office for President, and according to their society be free from that oath.  Their only binding oath is their allegience to the Order and the New World Order.

The initial rite starts with the initiate being carried into the room of the other members naked in a coffin where the initiate recounts all his past sexual experiences.  

They undergo a ritualistic death and are re-born.  So if any member is asked if he is born again, the answer is a yes.  They have died to the world and been reborn into the Order.  They are given secret names like Magog and Boaz and Beelzebub.

This all takes place in their windowless building the "Tomb."  Most of the Tomb is covered in black velvet, except room 322 the sanctum santorium which is covered in red velvet and has a pentagram on the wall.

Among other things in the Tomb are human skulls, it was rumored for years that George Bush's grandfather Prescott had stolen Geronimo's skull as part of his initiation but it has not been proven.  The skull provided for testing by the society in a court case did not prove to be Geronimo's.  To whom it belonged we will probably never know.

The stronge German ties of the society seem to have weakened over time.  Prescott Bush had his bank seized by the US government during WW II for financing the Nazi's.  Since then the ties are less evident, though there were many Skull and Boners involved in the intelligence community that let many Nazi's escape at the end of the war.

There are entire books written about it.  A lot of info is available on the web.  Just type in skull and bones in your favorite search engine and you will find plenty.

I just wonder how a person can belong to a secret society which conducts Satanic rituals and claim to be a Christian.  I must admit also wondering about those that support him on the basis of his being a Christian, I could see it if he renounced the Order, but both candidates are still quite evidently proud of their accomplishment in belonging.

Marv

Marv,
        Ok......lol....... I am going to try to be gentle here, you come on this thread jumped in about false assumtions, being a chritstian board and all. And you are correct, at the same time, I posted web sights with my orginal post, and then offered more after you complained about certain missunderstandings.

     SO may I ask where you go this iformation, and why and how are we suppose to believe you, you must provide proof, web sights or something that can back this claim up other wise you have just crossed the line you accused me off when I post the orginal about Kerry.

        You already made it obviouse you support Kerry so your proof had better be bullet proof.....

    Until then have a blessed monday morning
musicllover

[sincereheart]

Skull and Bones is the highest secret society at Yale.
I've always wondered why, if it's 'secret' so many seem to know about it?

But either way, didn't Bush become a Christian AFTER his college days?

it was rumored for years that George Bush's grandfather Prescott had stolen Geronimo's skull as part of his initiation but it has not been proven.
What hasn't been proven? That an ancestor of Bush's stole a skull? Or whose skull it was?
I have much seedier characters in my past - and even some royalty. Does that make me seedy or royal? Rhetorical... I'm a child of the King of Kings - that's more than enough for me!  
 
Didn't you say:

I'm new here, but I thought the user agreement was that things posted would be factual.  More importantly, I thought the user agreement with God was for facts too.

but both candidates are still quite evidently proud of their accomplishment in belonging.
Based on what?

[Symphony]

Skull and Bones is the highest secret society at Yale.
I've always wondered why, if it's 'secret' so many seem to know about it?



good point, 'cept people still don't know what goes on in that group.

same as with the higher eschlons of Free Masons (above the 33rd degree).

You only get up there if you're invited, or appointed.  So we all know it exists, but we don't know what goes on there.

These groups could be pretty hard on a defector, if they wanted to be...so their secrecy is apparently pretty ironclad.

[Marv]

To sincereheart,

Like any "secret" we learn some things over time, because to many are involved to keep it totally secret.  

Bush did become a Christian after college.  Unfortunately, he has not quit his involvement with Skull and Bones.   Say you had a friend who was a practicing witch (unlikely, I know but just assume), you speak to the person about Jesus and they convert to Christianity, but they continue practicing witchcraft.  You point out to the person their error, and yet they keep right on with witchcraft.  This is the situation with the candidates.  They  know, yet they continue.  Is such a person truely a Christian?  What would you think if people started to hold up your witch friend as an example of a Christian?

We know that members do some really wierd things for initiation.  We don't know that Skull and Bones has Geronimo's skull or even if Prescott stole someone's skull.  We do know that human skulls are kept in the Tomb and there are other bones.  We don't really know if the other bones are human or animal.

I try to be factual, the Prescot Bush story was to show that the Order does have at least one human skull.  I told you the story behind how we know it because the story was so well know that Native Americans pushed for the FBI to investigate and they checked a skull to see if it was Geronimo.  They never went in and searched and checked skulls.  

The family history of the Bushs is important to this from the standpoint that the Bush family was involved with the Skull and Bones for a long time.  George Bush knew about it and his academic career shows that belonging to it was something that was important to his family.  Kerry didn't have the family history, though he still clearly wanted to belong.  He is unusual because he is Catholic.  Only recently has membership been open to people who aren't white, male, and Protestant.

I will post some sources in a separate post.

Marv

[Marv]

Here's and article that references both candidates admitting their memberships in Skull and Bones.  The references are good enough so if you want to look up and read the original transcripts it's pretty easy to get:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tna/2004/03-08-2004/bonesmen.htm

http://www.parascope.com/articles/0997/skullbones.htm
Is pretty complete background, it gives references.

 http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0122-10.htm
is a trascript with the author of "Secrets of the Tomb: Skull and Bones, the Ivy League, and the Hidden Paths of Power"  with a link to the book

http://www.bilderberg.org/skulbone.htm
Gives a lot of links and info.

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/3/skullroster.htm
Gives a list of members in Skull and Bones

http://www.antonysutton.com/
He has two books available:  "America's Secret Establishment an Introduction to the Order of Skull and Bones"
and "Fleshing out Skull and Bones Investigations into America's Most Powerful Secret Society."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5244.htm
You can watch the "60 minutes" segment on Skull and Bones

The list goes on and on, I suppose all these sources can be attacked at some level or the other, but I think they do a pretty complete job of backing what I have posted.

Marv

[Marv]

Do you believe it is okay for Christians to belong to secret societies.  I do not.  In my own little town, I have been asked to join the Masons, much of the local power clearly revolves around the Masons, but I do not believe a Christian should belong or participate in such organizations.  Maybe you disagree, I would be interested in why you disagree.

So what do people here think, would you join Skull and Bones given a chance?  How about the Masons?  

If you joined before becoming a Christian, would you continue after your conversion?

What would you tell someone who was a member of such an organization who desired to become a Christian?

As a parent, if I run around giving my support to Bush as a Christian, what could I tell my children if they got the chance to join a secret society?  Some want to just call Skull and Bones a fraternity, but this goes beyond that.

While this is really not a partisan question, since both current candidates for President belong, it is very difficult for people not to think of things in partisan terms; however, I ask that people try.  The Bush family has much more history in the Skull and Bones and as such there is more to talk about, but Kerry belongs too.  Interestingly Teresa Heinz-Kerry's first husband also belonged to Skull and Bones, so there are pretty strong ties there too.  The original post starting this was attacking Kerry so it immediately turned partisan, but I'm not saying support Kerry, I'm not saying support Bush either.  

This summer and fall I have been bombarded with forwarded emails attacking Kerry, many of which are just clearly not true, many of these are forwarded by well meaning Christians.  There are many others attacking Bush, but I haven't received many of those.  For instance, I received the one where Kerry is said to have named John 16:3 as his favorite verse in the Bible when he would have meant John 3:16.  This has also been circulated about Bush and Gore.  Evidence is that if it is true of anyone, it is George H. W. Bush.  That is listed on one of the urban myth pages.  Anyone here receive and forwarded it this year?  If so, you are participating in a lie.  That hurts your Christian witness.  That is why I recommended reading the urban myth pages.  You will recognize these stories for what they are.

Marv