Could someone explain?

[Willowbirch]

My explanation on the end times: There'll be wars and disasters, God's gonna come, we'll go the heaven, not necessarily in that order. (Oh, yeah, I real learn-ed, I learn-ed my Bible, lol!) (But seriously - its one of those things only God knows for sure.)

[Bronzesnake]

willow quote...

My explanation on the end times: There'll be wars and disasters, God's gonna come, we'll go the heaven, not necessarily in that order. (Oh, yeah, I real learn-ed, I learn-ed my Bible, lol!) (But seriously - its one of those things only God knows for sure.)

Hi willow.
We don't have to be left in the dark about this, God gives us the bible so we can know what's going on. Granted, some things won't be revealed until the appropriate time, but there is plenty of scripture to reveal the rapture.
Take care.

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Bronze
you posted
revival in history occurs on earth as the 144,000 Jews begin to proclaim
the message that the kingdom of Christ is at hand.

Theres only 24,000 that will be considered Jews. The rest will be the remant of the 10 scattered tribes. 12,000 from each tribe.

[Wreck N Sow]

Me again
Youve stated there will be 2 resurections in this 7 yr period. Will there also be 2 raptures.

MATT.24  [29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Another rapture when HE gathers HIS elect?

[Seven_Tides]

Interesting...

[Bronzesnake]

Me again
Youve stated there will be 2 resurections in this 7 yr period. Will there also be 2 raptures.

MATT.24  [29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Another rapture when HE gathers HIS elect?

Read the verses carefully W&S.
That verse is clearly describing Christ's return to earth with His Raptured Saints after the tribulation.

MATT.24  [29] Immediately after the tribulation

His faithful believers are Raptured before the seven years of tribulation. Once the seven years are complete His Raptured Saints return to earth with Him as described in the verse you posted.

Also notice where the elect are being gathered from...not the four corners of the earth, but ...
"and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

 So this verse does not describe a Rapture, it describes Christ's physical return with His Saints to the earth.

I don't know how much more I can try to clear this up for ya W&S,  it's not a "Heaven or Hell" issue, so if you don't believe it that's cool. I believe it.

Take care my brother.
 

[Bronzesnake]

Hi Bronze
you posted
revival in history occurs on earth as the 144,000 Jews begin to proclaim
the message that the kingdom of Christ is at hand.

Theres only 24,000 that will be considered Jews. The rest will be the remant of the 10 scattered tribes. 12,000 from each tribe.

Don't fall into that trap my friend. That sounds a lot like a Jehova Witness argument.

 God makes it quite clear who these 144,000 are.

    Rev 7:4   And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.  
   
    Rev 7:5   Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.  
   
    Rev 7:6   Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.  
   
    Rev 7:7   Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.  
   
    Rev 7:8   Of the tribe of Zabulon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin [were] sealed twelve thousand.

Those aren't Sweedish tribe names my friend. Remember, the Jews were tossed from their country a few times, and returned again. They were Jews when they were "scattered" they were Jews when they returned, and they are still Jews today.

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Bronze
Dont know about Jehovah Witness beliefs but i have studied the 12 tribes. In fact in 2nd Kings the Jews are at war with the 10 other tribes. All through old testament scripture is quite clear about this.The tribe of Judah, is the line through which Jesus came.

[Wreck N Sow]

Surely you dont believe the BRIDE of Christ consists only of Jews?

REV.21  [9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Bronze
You wrote
Also notice where the elect are being gathered from...not the four corners of the earth, but ...
"and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

EZEK.37  [8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.[9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

theres the FOUR WINDS Bronze and it sounds like these people aint comin back from heaven and this scripture says its the whole house of Israel. Do ya still believe them to be all Jews?

[Bronzesnake]

Surely you dont believe the BRIDE of Christ consists only of Jews?

REV.21  [9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.[10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,[11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;[12] And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

W&S.

You really have to read more carefully my friend.
First of all the 144,000 Jews from the Twelve Tribes are saved Christians, only they accept Jesus after the Rapture.

Then you must know the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven is named after the Jewish city...does this mean only Jews will be permitted in it?

You also forgot that the names of the 12 apostles are also found there.

Rev 21:14   And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

So, I don't know how you interpret that scripture to mean that the Bride of Christ consists only of Jews. If you read further on it becomes chrystal clear.

    Rev 21:24   And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.  
   
   Rev 21:25   And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.  
   
    Rev 21:26   And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.  
   
    Rev 21:27   And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.  
 
     
 

[Bronzesnake]

Hi Bronze
You wrote
Also notice where the elect are being gathered from...not the four corners of the earth, but ...
"and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

EZEK.37  [8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.[9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.[10] So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.[11] Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.[12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.[13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,

theres the FOUR WINDS Bronze and it sounds like these people aint comin back from heaven and this scripture says its the whole house of Israel. Do ya still believe them to be all Jews?

W&S

Once again, you must read more carefully my friend.

Look what is happening here W&S.

Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain.

God is pointing out that the power to raise "these slain, that they may live" comes from the very breath of God, which travels on the four winds from Heaven.

This is not a Rapture verse W&S. This verse in no way describes a return from anywhere, let alone Heaven.

This verse describes the following Revelation verses.

 
    Rev 20:5   But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.  

  Rev 20:6   Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.  

  Rev 20:11   And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.  
   
    Rev 20:12   And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  
   
    Rev 20:13   And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.  
   
    Rev 20:14   And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  
   
    Rev 20:15   And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  

Like I said my friend, this is not Heaven & Hell stuff. So we really shouldn't argue over it, there's plenty of arguing going on here already.

Later my brother.

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Bronze
I have not argued with you at all. Ive read the answers ya give and go on to the next question. Cept for the 12 tribe thing. Also,I think it could come down to a heaven or hell thing. If people believe this rapsure thing, theyre expecting to see Christ before the bad guy gets here. If the "anti-Christ" arrives and brings down fire from the sky as scripture says he will and gives his explanation as to why youse guys are still on earth will youse except him, thinkin they are witnessing Christ?

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Bronze
Well, earlier you said that GOD blows the trumpet in 1 Cor.15 and the angels blow it elsewhere. No where else would i find GOD blowing the trumpet himself. Well......

ZECH.9  [12] Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare that I will render double unto thee;[13] When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man.[14] And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the LORD GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.[15] The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, and as the corners of the altar.
[16] And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they shall be as the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.[17] For how great is his goodness, and how great is his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.

Whirlwind-arrows- lightning- Especially"in that day"

If you can read Zech.and tell me this trumpet that GOD blows is before the tribulation, then in that day you might have soom spainin to do.

ZECH.12
[3] And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
[4] In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
[6] In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
[8] In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
[9] And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
[11] In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

ZECH. 9  [16] And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people(GOD blows the trumpet in that day)

[Bronzesnake]

Hello again W&S...

If you read through these verses you can see they describe a chronological order of events from the time of Jesus' first coming upto the second coming.


    Zec 9:9   Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he [is] just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

 When did this happen? ...During Jesus' first coming.
   
    Zec 9:10   And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion [shall be] from sea [even] to sea, and from the river [even] to the ends of the earth.  
   
    Zec 9:11   As for thee also, by the blood of thy covenant I have sent forth thy prisoners out of the pit wherein [is] no water.  
   
    Zec 9:12   Turn you to the strong hold, ye prisoners of hope: even to day do I declare [that] I will render double unto thee;  
   
    Zec 9:13   When I have bent Judah for me, filled the bow with Ephraim, and raised up thy sons, O Zion, against thy sons, O Greece, and made thee as the sword of a mighty man.  
   
    Zec 9:14   And the LORD shall be seen over them, and his arrow shall go forth as the lightning: and the Lord GOD shall blow the trumpet, and shall go with whirlwinds of the south.  
Not amongst them, or on earth...over them...Then what does He do? does He stay?...no, He leaves..."and shall go with whirlwinds of the south."

This is the Rapture.
   
    Zec 9:15   The LORD of hosts shall defend them; and they shall devour, and subdue with sling stones; and they shall drink, [and] make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like bowls, [and] as the corners of the altar.  
   
    Zec 9:16   And the LORD their God shall save them in that day as the flock of his people: for they [shall be as] the stones of a crown, lifted up as an ensign upon his land.  
   
    Zec 9:17   For how great [is] his goodness, and how great [is] his beauty! corn shall make the young men cheerful, and new wine the maids.