Could someone explain?

[Bronzesnake]

Hey W&S.

So far I have answered all of your queries. Now perhaps you can answer some of mine.

Explain what's going on in these verses and when.

    1Th 4:13   But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.  
   
    1Th 4:14   For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  
   
    1Th 4:15   For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  
   
    1Th 4:16   For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  
   
    1Th 4:17   Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  
   
    1Th 4:18   Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  


     1Cr 15:51   Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,  
   
    1Cr 15:52   In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  
   
    1Cr 15:53   For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.  
   
    1Cr 15:54   So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.  

What does this mean?
   1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

What's going on in this verse, and when does this take place? and who are these armies with Jesus?
Where are they coming from?
How did they get there?

    Rev 19:11   And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.  
   
    Rev 19:12   His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.  
   
    Rev 19:13   And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.  
   
    Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

If you're going to believe the Rapture doesn't happen, then you will need to ignore these verses, or take them totally out of context.

Later my friend.

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Bronze
1 Thes 4 - I simply beleive what it says-God gathers HIS people to give them the land promised Abraham. The people who have died in Christ rise first, then HIS people which are alive are brought up to meet HIM in the air
1 COR says the same thing as 1 thes 4 in the twinkling of an eye. At the LAST trumpet.

Before this goes any further Bronze and ya get mad at me i just wanna thank you for answering questions. Im really not tryin to provoke ya to anger but when 2 people disagree on somethin its hard to state your case without steppin on toes.So again i say thanks. Heres verses on when GODS people will be gathered

DEUT.30  [1] And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,[2] And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;[3] That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.[4] If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:[5] And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.[6] And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.[7] And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.[8] And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.[9] And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:[10] If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.[11] For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.[12] It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?[13] Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?[14] But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.[15] See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;[16] In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

EZEK.37  [4] Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of
the LORD.[5] Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:[6] And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.[7] So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.[8] And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.[9] Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.

MATT.24  [29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

1THES.4  [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of
the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

ISAIAH 43 [1] But now thus saith the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.[2] When thou passest through the waters, I
will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.[3] For I am the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.[4] Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.[5] Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;[6] I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;[7] Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.[8] Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.[9] Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.[10] Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.[11] I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.[12] I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.[13] Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?[14] Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought down all their nobles, and the Chaldeans, whose cry is in the ships.
[15] I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.

Sorry Bronze, i have about 10-15 of these scriptures,ill send them a little later.

[Wreck N Sow]

I guess ill send them 1 at a time as i find them

MATT.25 [31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:[32] And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:[33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.[34] Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world

inherit the kingdom - i suppose i should ask you now before sending more. Do you believe the Kingdom will be the land promise Abraham?

[Wreck N Sow]

Psalm 37 kinda puts it in a nut shell

Psalm 37  [27] Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.[28] For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.[29] The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

[Bronzesnake]

W&S quote...

Before this goes any further Bronze and ya get mad at me i just wanna thank you for answering questions. Im really not tryin to provoke ya to anger but when 2 people disagree on somethin its hard to state your case without steppin on toes.So again i say thanks.

I'm not angry in the least my brother, it's just getting a little redundant here is all. I have enjoyed our discussions W&S even though we see things differently.

1 Thes 4 - I simply beleive what it says-God gathers HIS people to give them the land promised Abraham. The people who have died in Christ rise first, then HIS people which are alive are brought up to meet HIM in the air
1 COR says the same thing as 1 thes 4 in the twinkling of an eye. At the LAST trumpet.

You're forgetting a couple of important events that go along with these verses.

       1Th 4:14   For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.    

 Where does God bring us?  

    1Th 4:15   For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  
   
    1Th 4:16   For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  
   
    1Th 4:17   Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  
   
 He brings us to meet Him in the air. That's odd isn't it? Where do we go after that? We go to Heaven. How do I know that?
Because of this verse...

 Rev 19:14   And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Well, how long were we in Heaven for?

   Mat 24:29   Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:  
   
    Mat 24:30   And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.  

So here we clearly see there are many people on the earth when Jesus returns.
   
    Mat 24:31   And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.    

 And here we clearly see there are many people coming from Heaven (not here waiting on earth) with Jesus, After the tribulation
How long is the tribulation? seven years.
So we are in Heaven for seven years...we are Raptured up to Heaven for seven years, while many people remain on the earth during the entire seven years. After the tribulation (seven years) we return from Heaven with Jesus.

 W&S,  It is very confusing to try and decipher what your opinion is when you post multiple verses together like you did.

Usually, whenever I post verses I try not to group too many together, and I try to give my opinion on any verses I select.

Good discussing with you as always my friend.

     

[Wreck N Sow]

OK Bronze
Your probably right about the multiple verse thing.Ill keep that in mind. I think i could have done a better job in stating my case through scripture but i kinda put things like this on the back burner and keep Gods 10 commandments on the front burners. Just wanna send one more scripture to ya, then go back to the drawing board on the rapture.

JOEL 2 [1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. [9] They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.[10] The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: [16] Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. [28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: [31] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.[32] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

As you can see, clouds, earthquake,heavens tremble,stars withdraw their shining,(all Day of the LORD stuff)
Then the gathering-let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet

TAKE CARE BRONZE SNAKE

[Bronzesnake]

Hello W&S

I guess I can throw out one more time.

The Joel verse has an angel blowing the trumpet, not God. It is a verse describing conditions during the tribulation. We are not here at this time.

Also read this verse again.

     1Th 4:14   For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  
   
    1Th 4:15   For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.  
   
    1Th 4:16   For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:  
   
    1Th 4:17   Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  
   
    1Th 4:18   Wherefore comfort one another with these words.  

 Why would God tells us to comfort one another with "these words" if we knew we were going to have to be stuck on earth during the time of God's wrath? How comforting is that?
God wants us to feel comfort due to the fact that He has not appointed us to His wrath, we will be taken away before His wrath begins. Trust Him W&S, you know He loves us.

In these following verses God shows us who will face His wrath and who will not.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Col 3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So tell me this W&S...If we believe what God says then we must decide which of these situations we will find ourselves in. Will you be around for God's wrath? or do you believe you are saved through Jesus and spared His wrath?

[Wreck N Sow]

Bronze
My last post had nothing to do with trumpets.Only Bride-Bridegroom- ON the Day of the Lord
Do ya think ya get to decide what happens  by saying ya believe somethin. I know GODS plan will happen as HE wants no matter what fables man comes up with

No wrath for HIS people

JOHN 17 [14] I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as
I am not of the world.[15] I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.[16] They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

ISAIAH 26 [20] Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.[21] For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover
her slain.

ZEPH.2 [2] Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you.[3] Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth,
which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.

PROVERBS 3  [25] Be not afraid of sudden fear, neither of the desolation of the wicked, when it cometh.[26] For the LORD shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.

I posted these before????