Biblical proof for the Rapture

[Bronzesnake]

Tim Lahaye is just a storyteller who knows nothing about prophecy.

I guess you never read any of his non-fiction stuff, huh?

And if you want to see saome REAL Apostasy, Check this out...http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=17502

Good call phil. I read that person's post. Seems like he/she has seperated one into three doesn't it?

[Shammu]

Tim Lahaye is just a storyteller who knows nothing about prophecy.

I guess you never read any of his non-fiction stuff, huh?

And if you want to see saome REAL Apostasy, Check this out...http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=17502

Bingo! good call there, my friend. Them splitting the Trinity in to 3 separate beings, Orthodoxy is in the wrong.

Resting in the arms of Jesus.
Bob

Ezekiel 30:8 And they shall know that I am the LORD, when I have set a fire in Egypt, and when all her helpers shall be destroyed.

[curious]

     Dear Friends:

   I used to believe in Pre Trib Rapture,but now I am not too sure,but I believe that we should live our lives as if Yeshua is coming this very day.


                           Yours in Yeshua,
                           curious

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen curious,

Many on here believe just as you do, whether pre-trib, mid-trib or post-trib they still believe that we should live our lives as if this very moment Jesus will return. This is the very reason why we are told that "no man knoweth the hour".

Still we are also told to "study to show ourselves approved". Even though the forum is titled "debate" that is the basis of this thread  ....  to study  .... not to argue, not to be right and others to be wrong but to study Gods word.

[ARPEL]

Hello friends,

I am wondering if the teaching of the pre or mid trib rapture isn't what will cause the falling away spoken of at 2 Th 2:3.

While many claim there is apostasy going on right now, verse 3, clearly together with 1 Tim 4:1, emphasizes the latter times and is connected with the man of sin the son of perdition.

The Lord and the Apostles clearly taught believers not to allow themselves to be deceived, He said no man knoweth the time nor the hour, yet the pre trib rapture is taught matter of fact.

Consider what could cause falling away (apostasy, departure);  in masse, it could very well be people becoming disilusioned when there is no rapture, during tribulation

This is the Apostle Peter says;

2 Peter 3
This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2  That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
3  Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,4  And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Today doctrines confirmed by church councils are treated as thou they be holy writ.

While the exact timing of the rapture is not clear, what is clear is that believers are to be expectant to His return, not allowing themselves to be deceived.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Mat 24:42

[TEXASGRANDMA]

Teaching of the rapture is not causing the falling away.  I believe the great falling away is Preachers who have stopped preaching about sin and sinners  and instead are focusing on feel good and politically correct sermons.
Jesus is coming for those who are looking for His return.
betty

[Shammu]

Teaching of the rapture is not causing the falling away.  I believe the great falling away is Preachers who have stopped preaching about sin and sinners  and instead are focusing on feel good and politically correct sermons.
Jesus is coming for those who are looking for His return.
betty

YES! you are right TEXASGRANDMA, another falling away is not teaching about personal salvation. I noticed that, before I quit my last Church. The people are expected to know of their salvation, in some of these churches. I never heard a sermon on salvation. Not like the Bible teaches salvation, as my Church teaches. We hear about salvation, in every sermon. The reason being is that, we never know if we are going to have guest(s), attending our Church.

Resting in the hands, of Jesus.
Bob

Hosea 1:7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.

[ARPEL]

Teaching of the rapture is not causing the falling away.  I believe the great falling away is Preachers who have stopped preaching about sin and sinners  and instead are focusing on feel good and politically correct sermons.
Jesus is coming for those who are looking for His return.
betty

mmmm!

Grandma,

Are you saying those that fall away, will fall away from feel good politically correct sermons??

The falling away or apostasy is clearly the result of people believing a lie, and this lie is Gods judgement upon them because they did not believe the truth.

Please notice carefully the verses, which are held by those are deceived;

2 Th 2
7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Notice verse 9-10, the deception precedes, the judgement, verse 11 makes this very clear.

Clearly in the context of what is being said in this chapter, the apostle is dealing with the false report atributed to some perhaps written (vs 2) by someone close to Paul, claiming the Lord had already come.

Paul rejects this very thought, making it clear that the Day of the Lord will not come unless first there is an apostasy; and secondly the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition is revealed; it is clear from the language at verses 3-6 that his revelation (the man of sisns) would be witnessed by those who are expecting His return because Jesus said ;

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Mat 24:15

The desolation, spoken by Jesus at Mat 24, is not the destruction of Temple at Jerusalem as some would have you believe, but refers to vs 4 of 2Th 2.

Note;

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

This clearly seen in the prophecy of Daniel.

Dan 12
10  Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11  And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

He goes on to say;

12  Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

This is the second half of the tribulation period.


Do you agree with any of this?

God Bless

[TEXASGRANDMA]

I believe that Preachers who are preaching water-downed Gospel and PC Sermons are preparing the people to accept the anti-Christ as God after the rapture.  You have people sitting in Churches today, who are not being taught that sin is sin and are being led to believe it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you believe in something.
betty

[ARPEL]

I believe that Preachers who are preaching water-downed Gospel and PC Sermons are preparing the people to accept the anti-Christ as God after the rapture.  You have people sitting in Churches today, who are not being taught that sin is sin and are being led to believe it doesn't matter what you believe as long as you believe in something.
betty

TexasGrandma,

I agree with you, people are not being taught the bible, but can this be blamed on preachers, maybe people aren't making an effort to learn the scriptures.

It's alright no response necessary.


God Bless,

[Brother Jerm]

This is what I believe.  I realize others believe other ways, thats alrighty.  I am just stating my convictions.

Listen folks stop putting on that comfort blanket of this pre-trib rapture , and start putting on that armor of God, so that ye may stand!!

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14: Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15: And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16: Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17: And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18: Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19: And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20: For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
(Ephesians 6:13-20)

It says,"that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." Stand in the evil day????? Put on the armor of God? Withstand?? Does this mean we don't get blasted out of here before it gets bad?? Yes! We will suffer tribulation. Tell the chinese christians they are going to be "raptured" out before it gets bad! They have been persecuted and killed for the Word of God for many years.

Christ doesn't gather the saints from the four corners of the earth untill after tribuation, Not "The 7 year Tribulation". Thats why scripture tells us to endure, to stand! There is serious trouble coming here folks. I believe that believing in this pre-trib rapture  is setting you up to unknowingly fall into the trap of the anti-christ, John spoke of. Read revelations, and think about it, not just that Daniel, Joel, Hosea, Thesselonians, etc. also, its all there.

 We must endure for Christ and suffer for His names sake. Arn't you ready to suffer for the Saviour Christ who suffered so much for you??? Because of Christ we don't have to go to hell, if call upon His name, and believe! Jesus Christ is the only way.

  Now as Christs soldiers we must endure sound doctrine! rightly deviding the word of God. Thats what I have been doing in my christian purifying process. I believed in this pre-trib for many years. It was so hard as I read my KJV bible (the only true word of God in english, all others are perversions) to figure out, ok is this before the rapture or after the raptue in the 7 year tribulation?? Well there was only one choice, in tribuation. Just not, "The tribulatuion".

 I now many of think I'm nuts as some of the other good soldiers of Christ have tried to warn you of in earlier posts. But we merely bring you the truth because we care! If we didn't we wouldn't be debating this big doctrinal topic with you. Remember the one who brings you the truth is the one who cares! I have to tell you when you preach against the pre\trib rapture, most christians get very very worked up. I love you guys and pray for you that you will not fall into the trap of the anti-christ and his mark. .

  By the way excellant studies brothers, I agree with you guys ( Arpel, curious, Psalam, Phil, one sheep, Tibby, etc.)  !! We need us," men of understanding" to band together stand up and shout of the coming of the Christ. Thats why I'm here with you guys. We are so few us last days remnant. Small pockets of true soldiers serving God. We feel very alone as we are attacked by the apostacy, illuminati,  , and the ecumenical church followers. But we must endure longsuffering, and tribulation. Thats why we must put on the whole armor of God (Ephesians chapter 6) so that we may stand in that day. Whats the first thing Paul tells us, take heed that ye be not deceived! Deception is everywhere, christians worshipping around spruce trees, colored eggs, and scary costumes. Theses are all adopted from the devil worshipping pagans. We are to worship in Spirit and Truth!! John tells of this spirit of anti-christ which has come into the world. Well its here folks!! And it is going to start killing, and beheading us true soldiers very soon. There are already concentration camps built and ready to use, yes right here in America! They are poisoning our food supply and water supply. They are minipulating weather with chemtrails, and such. Depleted uranium is spreading everywhere. Look we are in serious trouble here folks. Lets put on the whole Armor of God, and go out and win souls for Jesus, the time is short and the harvest is ripening. Soon the tares shall be seperated, from the good grain and burned in the lake of fire. The wheat shall then attend the marrige supper of the Lamb.


 But the pharisees the religious leaders sought to kill the apostles and Christ Himself. They claimed they were teaching false doctrine. Just like you some people think of us followers of Christ who are ready and prepaired to suffer for Christ, even be beheaded for Christ. I for one am ready to be the first to give my head, because I will NOT deny my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!!!!

So I have expressed my total faith in a suffering tribulation for all beleivers in the Lord Jesus Christ. I beleive in no rapture! I beleive in the second coming of Jesus Christ!

Soldier of Christ;
Brother Jerm

[nChrist]

1 Thessalonians 4:13 NASB  But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 NASB  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
1 Thessalonians 4:15 NASB  For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1 Thessalonians 4:16 NASB  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1 Thessalonians 4:17 NASB  Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:18 NASB  Therefore comfort one another with these words.


The above portion of Scripture is the Rapture of the Church which is the Body of Christ. One should carefully note that Christ does not come all the way down to the earth for the Rapture, rather the Church is caught up to meet the Lord in the air. The Second Coming of Christ is a completely separate event, and Christ does come all the way down to the earth.

1 Thessalonians 5:8 NASB  But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
1 Thessalonians 5:9 NASB  For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 5:10 NASB  who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
1 Thessalonians 5:11 NASB  Therefore encourage one another and build up one another, just as you also are doing.

The above portion of Scripture is a beginner's start to understanding that the Church which is the Body of Christ is NOT appointed to wrath, rather to salvation. Other beginner's topics include the basics about Daniel's 70 weeks. Daniel's 70 weeks were determined against Israel, not the Church which is the Body of Christ. In fact, the Church which is the body of Christ was a mystery to Daniel, and he knew NOTHING about it. One should also note the association of "Jacob's Trouble" with the Tribulation Period. It takes considerable time and effort to get beyond the basics and do an in-depth study of the "end of this age".

It is important to note that varying opinions about end of age events are NOT Salvation issues. We've had several recent new users that indicate an interest in debating these issues, and that's fine as long as the forum rules are followed. Disagreements over these issues will NOT result in name-calling as in several recent events. If the long-term users here wish to join you in debate, that will be totally up to them. I think that I can safely speak for most of the long-term users here and say that very few, if any, will be interested in any heated arguments. AND, from a moderators point of view, there won't be ANY name-calling.

New people here might wish to review a sampling of previous discussions on these issues. Some of them got out of hand, went too far, and they caused hurt feelings. This is improper for discussions between brothers and sisters in Christ, so the moderators will enforce the forum rules. See the next couple of posts for a sampling of related discussions already on the forum.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 5:7-9 NASB  for we walk by faith, not by sight--we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord. Therefore we also have as our ambition, whether at home or absent, to be pleasing to Him.

[nChrist]

Understanding the Book of Revelation -- Open Discussion\Debate Thread - 5 Pages

Best of Paul2's Pre-Trib. Rapture pages - 30 Pages

Understanding the Book of Revelation - 3 Pages

autumn in Israel... - 1 Page

Is The Pre-Trib Rapture Theory Biblical - 9 Pages

tribulation questions - 1 Page

THE RAPTURE! Everything You Wanted To Know - 6 Pages

The Rapture - 1 Page

THE DISPENSATIONS - 3 Pages

The coming of God's Kingdom - 2 Pages

Pre-trib Rapture - 7 Pages

some problems with the Preterist theory - 1 Page

Bride of Christ & the Mid-Tribulation Rapture - 11 Pages

Rapture........ - 5 Pages

Where does the trumpet fit into the rapture? - 1 Page

Paul2's Pre-Tribulation Rapture pages - 5 Pages

Daniel's 70th week speculation timeline - 1 Page

The Rapture:"Arose by any other name" - 3 Pages

Mark of the Beast - 3 Pages

Papal Rome and the European Union - 2 Pages

Paul2"s Group End Times Studies and Debates - 2 Pages

Revelation 12 & Pre-Trib Rapture - 1 Page

Pre-wrath investigation - 3 Pages

Paul2 vs Joel End Times Open Debate Discussions - 1 Page

Paul2 vs. Petro's Pre-Wrath Rapture Pages - 4 Pages

Don't you know partial rapture solves the problem!! - 3 Pages

The sins of various end-time views - 1 Page

End Time Prophecy Revealed - 3 Pages

Revelation 4 is a key to pre-tribulation rapture - 2 Pages

The Mid-Trib Rapture - 4 Pages

THE GOOD NEWS OF THE COMING KINGDOM - 1 Page

Is the pre-trib rapture truth or fiction? - 2 Pages

The Great Tribulation: What is it? - 5 Pages

The Day of the Lord - What is it? - 1 Page

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[nChrist]

Pre trib & the Chip - 1 Page

The Word of God vs. the Pre-Tribulation Rapture - 9 Pages

America's role in the end times.. - 4 Pages

Babylon the Great is Falling - 2 Pages

SORRY ! No Rapture Today....or, Next Week... - 3 Pages

Rapture season 2006/2007 facts & evidence *reactions* - 5 Pages

Jewish eschatology - 1 Page

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Twobombs, and other prophecy watchers. - 1 Page

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The Whole Earth is on Borrowed Time - 1 Page

"Trends of the End" - 1 Page

Why Study Bible Prophecy? - 1 Page

THE KINGDOM AGE (The 1000 Year Reign of Christ) - 1 Page

Are We in the End Times, Prophetic Signs - 5 Pages

"Unless there come a GREAT falling away..." - 1 Page

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The GAP theory revisited - 1 Page

Revelations - 6 Pages

What do you believe the Rapture will occur? - 9 Pages

70 WEEKS PROPHECY... - 3 Pages

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24 Elders and the Four beast...Redeemed? - 1 Page

"Behold a Pale Horse" - 1 Page

Isa 17 study [ yes i'm back ] - 3 Pages

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Not Wrath But Rapture - 2 Pages

Prophecy and End Time Series. - Israel - 7 Pages

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[Brother Jerm]

book "Blinded by the Sun"
by S. David Mitchell

The Seven Year Tribulation
Another --- perpetrated by the --- shepherds of ecumenism is that of a Pre-
Tribulation Rapture. This doctrine teaches that all Christians will be gathered to
meet the Lord in the air at the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation, and that after
the Rapture 144,000 Israelites (12,000 from each of the Twelve Tribes) will be saved to evangelize the world.
“And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there
were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the
tribes of the children of Israel.” Revelation 7:4
The scripture says they are sealed, NOT saved! This is to keep a segment of
descendents of Abraham safe as the wrath of God is poured out on the world.
“And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the
seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four
angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we
have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.”
Revelation 7:2-3
Some claim that because they are called servants of God that proves they are
followers of Christ. But in speaking to His disciples, the Lord Jesus said:
“Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not
what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things
that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.”
John 15:14-15 (emphasis mine)
Those that adhere to this ------ also believe that the Holy Spirit is keeping the
Antichrist from coming into power. Therefore all Christians that have the Holy
Spirit within them must be taken from the world before the son of perdition
comes to rule the earth.
“And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed
in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only
he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7
281
However, the apostle never says that it is the Holy Spirit keeping the Antichrist
at bay. Claiming it is the Holy Spirit is an assumption by -----; used to
support the Pre-tribulation rapture ------. For centuries True Believers in Christ
have preached and proclaimed that the Roman Church is the whore of
Revelation mentioned in chapters 17 and 18. Many stood for Christ, paying the
price of their lives. But thanks to the likes of Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch, Billy
Graham, Oral Roberts and a host of others; the mystery of iniquity (compromise)
working within modern Christendom has convinced the Body of Christ to remove
the standard of truth for the sake of false unity, paving the way for the rise of the
Antichrist.
“Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness
of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received
not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this
cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie.” 2 Thessalonians 2:11
Going along with this --- is that since the Lord loves us so much, He would
never let His Bride go through such a horrible time. Did the Lord love not those
who were burned at the stake during the Inquisition? Does He not love those in
other lands that suffer unto death for His Names sake? What most Christians
here in the West do not realize is that this ------ is setting believers up to
actually fall into the trap of worshipping the Antichrist.
Another one of the main scriptures you will hear quoted to support this
---------- is found in the Book of Revelation.
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will
keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon
all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”
Revelation 3:10
But scripture defines scripture! To discover what the LORD is saying one need
only look to the consistency of the Bible for the meaning.
In the beginning of the Book of Revelation, the Apostle John wrote:
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation
and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ...”
Revelation 1:9
282
What is this patience mentioned? In the context of this book it is staying faithful
to the Lord and refusing the spirit of the Antichrist!
“...If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his
mark in his forehead or in his hand, the same shall drink the
wine of the wrath of God...Here is the patience of the saints;
here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the fait
of Jesus.” Revelation 14:9b-10a; 12
Jesus never promised His church that we would be exempt from tribulation. In
fact, He told us just the opposite.
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have
peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good
cheer; I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 (emphasis mine)
The Word of God also tells us that in time of tribulation or trouble, He is our
strong fortress.
“He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall
abide under the shadow of the Almighty. I will say of the
LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I
trust.” Psalm 91:1-2
“…God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above
that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to
escape, that ye may be able to bear it.” 1 Corinthians 10:13b
Also consider that the entire seven-year period that takes place after the
alleged Rapture, is never called “the tribulation” in the Word of God. The terms
used to describe this period of time are tribulation, great tribulation and wrath.
These do not have the same meaning in any way! The word tribulation comes
from the Latin, “tribulum” and refers to an instrument used to harvest grain. It is
used to separate a kernel of wheat from the husk. Wrath is judgment, destruction
and retribution!
So, by the Word of God we see that true Christians will have tribulation but they
are not to be subject to the wrath of God.
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation
by our Lord Jesus Christ.” 1 Thessalonians 5:9
The Signs of Noah and Lot
The Lord Jesus compared the Last Days to the times of two men of old, Noah,
and Lot; the nephew of Abraham.
283
“For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating
and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that
Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came,
and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of
man be.” Matthew 24:38-39
Noah endured tribulation (the testing of his faith) the entire time he was building

cont.