Shroud of Turin image has a ponytail! so do I!

[sincereheart]

Off the topic of the Shroud.....

Why is that God can't be equipping each one of us differently? The unsaved come in all different shapes and sizes, as do the witnesses for the Lord. I have enough faith in my Lord to know that He will connect those who need to be connected. He made us all different for a reason.... We all have different strengths and weaknesses and what seems to be 'odd' or 'different' in another most definitely can be used as a witnessing tool!  

[Paul2]

Off the topic of the Shroud.....

Why is that God can't be equipping each one of us differently? The unsaved come in all different shapes and sizes, as do the witnesses for the Lord. I have enough faith in my Lord to know that He will connect those who need to be connected. He made us all different for a reason.... We all have different strengths and weaknesses and what seems to be 'odd' or 'different' in another most definitely can be used as a witnessing tool!  

     Amen and thanks Sincereheart. By all the other posts I fiqure I've burned my bridge here and might as well move on. They say the truth will set you free but also it has its price.

     I'm not in any sub-culture. I wear old navy clothes, coach soccer for my 8 year old sons team. I go on every field trip and am at his school about every week for something. I read some of the posts about Mel Gibson's "the Passion" and that prompted my post. I'm not a "legalist". I believe everyone sins, but some try to pretend they have reached perfection already.

    I remember about 20 years ago someone witnessed to me and in the process started bashing "the Beatles" who were one of my favorite bands. They went on an on about how their music was evil. I couldn't see their point at the time and tuned them out because they said I should throw their albums away. Now in hind sight I see the point they were trying to make, but at the time it seemed outrageous. I believe in predestination and believe there are certain paths that are destined to cross. I'll witness to anyone if the Holy Spirit moves me to. I have found out over the years that you can try to tell everybody but if the Holy Spirit is not leading you, its all in vain. Someone else can reach someone I can't, and I can reach some people they can't. Christians are all part of the body of Christ, I happen to be the ponytailed member. Drive a corvette and everybody else driving a vette will wave and nod to you. Wear a nascar hat and nascar fans will wave to you (except Jeff Gordon fans who sometimes get the middle finger . Point is everybody has people they can relate to. People first think I'm a liberal, because I have long hair, and all of a sudden I sneak up on them and reveal I'm a conservative. I listen to Christian radio as well as Rush, O'Reilly, Hannitty, Savage and many others. I can go from politics and suddenly switch to Biblical prophecy while analizing current events. People don't see it coming and it works surprisingly well. Israel is a great topic to lead into the Bible. 9/11 made many people more receiptive to the gospel as long as you tie in all the prophetic details to give the Bible some credibility in a world thats is trying to escape from the bible and the truth it contains.

    When God convicts me to cut my hair I will. Its between God and I for He alone knows my heart fully, more than even I.

    I guess I should have "hid" the length of my hair from this forum (tucking hair up inside my #2 Rusty Wallace hat) O.k. I'm presentable now (fan blows hat off) Oh No, theres goes all my credibility. Time to find another forum I guess, and this time I guess I should keep my hat on.

                                                             Paul2

[Symphony]

That's fine to me, Paul2.  You shouldn't rush off on the hair deal.  I was really more interested in your shroud topic.

That's fine that you adopt the ways of whatever culture, or subculture that you're witnessing to--within reason, of course.  Obviously, you don't become a drunk to witness to drunks!!(hehe)


Indeed, for many of the foreign missions, this is a very big deal--learning the customs of the target group(eating with chopsticks, etc.).

A ponytail is fine to me--if it brings people to Jesus, then that's the point.

I appreciate your posts.  It sounds fine to me.

[Paul2]

     Thanks Symphony

                                                       Paul2

[Tamara]

I would dearly like to believe this shroud wrapped the body of my Saviour.  To be able to truly believe this was His Dear face on earth...but, because it is in the hands ot the catholic church...I cannot.
Love..Tamara.

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Paul2,

I've read nearly all of your posts, and it is obvious that you have Jesus in your heart. My brother, I love you in Christ. Please stay and share HIS WORD and fellowship with us.

In Christ,
Tom

 

[Paul2]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Paul2,

I've read nearly all of your posts, and it is obvious that you have Jesus in your heart. My brother, I love you in Christ. Please stay and share HIS WORD and fellowship with us.

In Christ,
Tom

    Thanks for the vote of confidence Tom, I'll stick around.

                                                             Paul2
                         

[Paul2]

I would dearly like to believe this shroud wrapped the body of my Saviour.  To be able to truly believe this was His Dear face on earth...but, because it is in the hands ot the catholic church...I cannot.
Love..Tamara.

    Tamara,

    I have never really given to much thought about who has the shroud, but have been convinced by the amount of evidence I have researched on the shroud itself. I won't care if Hitler had possession of it if it is really the burial shroud of Christ, and the "proof" of His resurrection. The Ark of the covenant was once in enemy hands, but the Israelites welcomed it back. Maybe the Catholics have it because they need to see the "blood" and the price of Salvation. Maybe they were supposed to realize that the cost of Salvation was the blood of the Son of God and not good works. Maybe they need it more than others. I don't know the answers, but have many questions myself.

     I have studied enough about the shroud to realize that even today it can't be duplicated. Scientists can tell us what the shroud is not but can't explain or recreate what it is.

    The amount of forensic evidence is astounding. The chemicals in the blood that only appear when a body is tramatized by severe repeated beatings on the same area. Just so many details a forger could not have known about, the fact that the image is caused by the top most fibers of the cloth being dehydrated as if by radiation. Dirt on the cloth from the feet being the exact same chemical composition as found in Jerusalem, pollen from plants only found in Jerusalem.

    Far to many details for a forger to have for seen the need of placing on the cloth long before science was even a consideration.

    I don't care what people think either way but I feel its a shame that we have a photograph of Jesus Christ, the first photograph ever taken of anybody, and yet some can't apprieciate it because of who has it. The Knights Templar also may have had the shroud in the possession for a time. But so did Peter, and Thomas. Some things are "bigger" than those who possess them. I believe Noah's Ark is on the mountains of Ararat in Turkey and believe its possible for relics from the ark maybe passed down from generation to generation of Muslim families in Turkey. I know there are many forgeries of relics but in the last 600 years noone can come close to recreating the shroud with all the details correct even using todays modern science to accomplish it never mind trying to recreate it from things only available in the 1300s.

     To me the person that owns an object is not significant to the object itself. If Saddam had a piece of the ark, the tower of babel or some other piece of history, it wouldn't change the historic relevance of the object to me. Don't allow man to steal what is possibly a great gift.

    If you invented the first camera what you take the first picture of? I would take my sons picture first, as his father. I think God the Father took a picture of His Son and the price he paid to redeem us, blood and all. Something to ponder I guess.
                                                           Paul2

   

[Tamara]

Hi Paul,
I hear you.  I did watch a video of the shroud and it bore complete resemblance to that described of the death of Jesus. Even to the crown of thorns.
I have looked at the web about the shroud since my letter, and was astonished to read that they actually do have a tiny fragment of blood and wanted to clone this.  I don't know if they would dare. But it is on the web.  
I realize it's being in the catholic hands may be a good, safe place for it IF it IS the actual shroud of Jesus.  But, the vatican is high on my list for deception.
They also have "crying statues" and statues which "bleed".
This is why I question the authenticity of the shroud.
As to it's finding and keeping by those involved...once again I am sceptical where the catholic vatican is concerned.
I don't trust the vatican nor it's spokespeople and that's the bottom line.
The church is too powerful and too great at deception to even believe the video.
However, Jesus needs to leave nothing behind to prove He was here on earth and the son of God to me.
God said it, I believe it, and that's it.
I would much rather Saddam have it than the vatican. It's being in the Middle East would be more natural to me than being on display where it is at present.
Sorry about my sceptisism.  But......if the vatican had never deceived people at any time in it's history I would not be such a sceptic about the place today.
It just appears to me that all the vatican wants to do is have people's eyes turned towards it.  And, these eyes of mine refuse to look.
In love..Tamara.

[Tamara]

There is one other thing too.....wasn't it a "shame" for a man to have long hair?  Jesus had no shame....

That shroud could have had anybody wrapped in it - IF all they write about it is true...

Tamara.

[Paul2]

There is one other thing too.....wasn't it a "shame" for a man to have long hair?  Jesus had no shame....

That shroud could have had anybody wrapped in it - IF all they write about it is true...

Tamara.

     Anybody that was crucified, crowned with thorns, flogged by a romans whip with the tiny lead dumbells at the tip, speared in the side, has parts of his beard torn out, and lets not forget, radiated to burn the image into the top fibers of the shroud. Not to many "anybodies" fit that criterea.

    As for the long hair, Isaiah said of Him he was not esteemed, nor desired by men. I find it strange that so many people would be disappointed in Jesus if he had long hair. What if Salvation is brought by a long haired Jesus, would you rather go to hell? The Phareses rejected him over trival things and misconceptions. Jesus drank wine, that can't be the Messiah, He allows his diciples to work on the sabbath by plunking the wheatheads of wheat and eating them, he can't be the messiah, he heals on the Sabbath, this can't be him...

    Jesus spoke this world into existance, He made the nazarite rules. He made exceptions to the long hair disgrace for them and maybe just maybe he wore long hair as a disgrace for those to "pure" to understand that he is the Law.
His own people rejected Him an esteemed Him not. Would you still esteem Him if he had a shoulder length ponytail. Where in the old testament does it say long hair is wrong? Paul said it to the greeks, and didn't say it was a sin but a disgrace. The cross is an offense to some, as is blood without which there is no forgiveness of sin. Some people find beards offensive and Jesus had a beard that was pulled out according to Isaiah. Becareful of making rules for the rule maker. Jesus just may surprize you and have longer hair than you tolerate and if He does good luck telling Him to get a hair cut.

                                                             Paul2
                                 

   

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

Brother, you have raised some interesting issues that are worthy of further study. I find the information you've shared about the Shroud of Turin to be fascinating.

One of the questions might be, "how was it preserved these 2,000 years"? The same question could be asked about the Holy Bible. I'm positive that I know the answer about the Holy Bible. Almighty God wanted it preserved.

In Christ,
Tom

[Paul2]

   Take a look at these sites

http://www.historian.net/shroud.htm

Take the "guided tour" offered at this site http://www.delayedreaction.com/

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

Thanks for the information sites on the Shroud of Turin. There is a massive amount of information and numerous links. I can see that it would take considerable time to scratch the surface on this subject. I'll have to go back when I have more time.

I find it interesting that arguments for and against were made with conclusions based on both. Great sites - THANKS!

In Christ,
Tom

[Saved_4ever]

I was going to let it go and all but I'm rather sick and tired of all the "different walks" folk and the excuses they give.  I show from scripture what is considered to be a shame and I'm now a "holier than thou business type".  Sounds pretty deffesive for someone that's so sure of themselves.

As Christians we are to be in the world yet NOT OF THE world.  Somehow there seems to be a new mantra that you need to be of the world in order to witness to someone.  I have also now been accused by two of these so called "different walks" folk of not witnessing to someone simply because I don't accept there lifestyle.  Funny last I checked I as a Christian I can't accept anyone's lifestyle without Christ.  I have yet to see why I don't witness to bikers, hippies and the lot just because I believe the WORD and follow it for my attire and such.

It's also funny because I don't even own a suit but whatever that means little to those who still wish to live for themselves.

I had long hair, and I have a tatto on my arm (that I wish could be gone.  It's not offensive or anything either).  Why will we say it's ok to have long hair to reach hippies but it's not ok to be drunk to reach the drunk?  There is no difference between the two to me.  I don't feel the need to do drugs to witness to the druggies out there.

I know of a lot of wrong ways like drugs and the rest because I was already there.  The world doesn't approve of long hair, drunks, or druggies but somehow Christians should be these people just to reach them?  I find this to be foolish at best.  One does not need to be something to witness to them.  I will witness to whomever I can.  I may use much more caution when witnessing to certain people but only because of personal safety.  If a biker gets all wriled up for some reason, and asks me to leave I'm certainly not going to badger them.  I know I can't go into certain meighborhoods without certain people with me as well.  I might get shot just for showing my face without even saying a word.

Regardless, we can still witness to whomever without trying to be like them.  Let's stay away from being part OF the world and just be IN the world.  Let our light so shine that they may come to us and see us, and not dim the light so people can still hide in the darkness.