Best of Paul2's Pre-Trib. Rapture pages

[Paul2]

     Petro,

    You still don't get it. I'll discuss my theory when you present and defend your theory which I have shattered,

    You can run away to save face but nobodies buying it. Your beaten and you know it.

    If you had answers you'd provide them to make me look stupid but you have no answers so you just keep trying to attack me and my interpretation.

   Earn that right. Answer my questions about your lack of an interpretation. Present your theory.

   Learn how to present your theory and then you will have earned the right to attack mine. Your theory fell apart on March 26th and remains flawed and proven not possible.

   I would have thought that by now you'd have come up with something. I guess I dealt your theory a death blow that you can't defend. Somebody once told me you'd admit your wrong if you were proven wrong. Obviously they were mistaken.

   This should be a lesson to understand your theory before attacking others. You should put as much effort into presenting your theory as you put into attacking others interpretations. A lesson that you haven't learned yet.

   Oh, one more thing. You fell back to using Margaret McDonald again as a attack against pre-Tribulation Rapture.

   When did your theory emerge? Perhaps it hasn't emerged as a total theory yet which might explain why you can't defend or even present your theory.

   Remember when I said "its time for me to have some fun? Well I'm having fun watching you try to ignore your theory that has been proven flawed. I'm enjoying watching you try to avoid the issues I presented against your theory and the fact you can't present your theory at all. I couldn't have asked for more. Thank you!

   This is the first time I've debated your theory and I seem to have exposed the flaws so well you can't even respond to my posts at all. Your Pre-Wrath interpretation does exist anymore. Its been exposed as a flawed impossible theory.

   Come on back when you've learned how to present your theory. We will be waiting if the Rapture doesn't take place first.

   Victory is mine. Your theory remains exposed and flawed and undefended. I thought for sure you'd have the courage to present and defend your theory. I never expected to win without a fight. Had I known I was going to silence you I'd have tried to have gone slower rather than destroying your theory in a few hours. Who knew it would be so easy to prove your theory wrong?

    When you find a new theory you can present and defend run it by me, I'll let you know if its any better than the Pre-Wrath interpretation you don't seem to be able to present or defend. I'm here for you Petro, and I'd be happy to help you spot the flaws in an intepretation as soon as you learn to present one.

                                                        Paul2

[Petro]

posted by paul2,
Petro,

I used Scripture to make my case against your pre-Wrath theory which you conceal.

paul2,

The scriptures you used, you had to twist, stretch and re-interpret, how does that make your theory right??

I wouldn't brag about it.

You don't have the answers. You don't "put forth theories with holes in them", you believe a theory with holes in it! I've shown you the holes which you've chosen to ignore. You don't seem to have an answer to when the Wrath of God found in the 7 vials take their effect on the earth in relation to the timing of the Rapture and the Second Coming and Daniel's 70th week. I've used Scripture to prove my point. Not fast and loose, I just used Scripture to prove that your theory is not possible. You have offered no other explaination.

You have lost sight of  your purpose for posting this thread, you have almost become rabid about this issue, you need to take a few steps back, and take a deep breath, an  consider what has been said, to you,  ............you have become  mesmerized by your writings, as though they are become inspired.  

Are you sure you are not trying to convince anyone about your theory??

Relax,it is clear, you are trying to convince us of your theory ,it won't happen, unless you first begin by  reconciling the errors you embrace, contrary to scritural teaching,  you can't disregard the truth of Gods word forever concerning this matter, and still expect to have followers.....

Is  the "falling away" the great apostasy or is it as you state, the rapture??

Is the word "meet", apatensis,  in 1 Th 4:17, defined as a turning back into the heavenlies for 7 years, as you have re interpreted it to mean, or  is it "as defined by biblical scholars and Gods inspired Word??

 Apantesis[/i] is used is in John 12:12-13. (Note, some Greek manuscripts show a one letter difference between this word and the one used in I Thes.4:17. The difference is in the first letter #5222, hupantesis,  which is why it is not shown as being the same word in Strong's Concordance .

However, the Nestle text of the Greek shows it as the same word.

You and others may be unaware of this, this is why, you miss this VERY important point.

I am not trying to confuse you or your friends; thou you may NOT believe this to be so, (but rather, I am attempting to  connect dots for you. Since it is clear to me, you have no interest in addressing the truth of these hard questions, I have shared with you).

Verses 12-13 in John chapter 12 reads as follows:

The next day the great crowd that had come for the feast heard that Jesus was on His way to Jerusalem. They took palm branches and went out to meet [apantesis] him shouting "Hosanna:"......

After meeting Him, where did they all go??  

Did they return with Him, back where He came from??

This may shock you, but the answer is NO,  He (Jesus) entered the city, followed by the crowd, His entrance into the City is fulfillment of Zechariah 9:9 and is also a picture of His future entrance  into the City of  Jerusalem in triumph as King over all the earth, at His Second Coming. (Zec 14:9)

I can't help it if you haven't considered any of this, while fabricating your theory and whether you except this or not, does not matter to me, but this is truth.
 
Now, Note verses 15-18;

Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
These things understood not his disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified, then remembered they that these things were written of him, and that they had done these things unto him.
The people therefore that was with him when he called Lazarus out of his grave, and raised him from the dead, bare record.
For this cause the people also met him, for that they heard that he had done this miracle.

posted by paul2 as the opening line on this theory thread;

First let me say I'm not trying to convince you personally.

Yaa, I here you....................but

I think, you are trying to make me believe what you do, and
since I don't swoon and fall at your feet,  .........this is what is so frusterating for you...........sorry charlie,

I can see the deception in the words you began this thread with.  Now

Blessings

Petro

[Paul2]

    Hey Tom and 2nd Timothy,

    Where did you guys go?

                                                         Paul2

[Paul2]

Hi everyone -

I just started reading this thread yesterday and I'm up to page nine so far. I'm not much for opening up a book and reading the last page, so I wont be jumping in yet. Although I have a long way to go, I thought I would jump ahead and ask a question, but it doesn't have anything to do with what has been said.

Where would you place Isaiah chapter 17 according to the rapture(before or after)?

Damascus has never been a ruinous heap and Syria is making the news lately. What seems to be a nuclear strike, it all happens in a twenty-four hour period. But in Isaiah 17:12-13 I've been wondering if it might open up the door to Ezekiel 38. At any rate, maybe I'll have some input or questions later on...

       I don't know when Isaiah chapter 17 will happen. It could be any day if the United States gets attacked and we find out it was a Syrian plot. The nuclear genie is about to come bounding out of the bottle but where and when are still the mystery. Russia has so many nuclear missles missing and 43 suitcase nukes missing its just a matter of time before an explosion takes place. If New York was nuked I could see the U.S. responding with nuclear weapons. This could happen before or after the Rapture or next week if the world suddenly goes crazy. Terror is the weapon of the future. We have the best military so weak countries seek nuclear weapons to put us at a stale-mate. But somebody, somewhere is making plans to attack the U.S. and if they are sucessful we will retailiate. This could get bad really quickly just like how the world changed from September 10th 2001 to the next day September 11th 2001. a single event on a single day can alter everything for the future.

                                                       Paul2

[Paul2]

     I'm resurrecting this thread again...

[Shammu]

Good glad to see that brother, you have alot of work in this thread.

[David_james]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

How can I not reply? Must bump

[nChrist]

Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.

How can I not reply? Must bump

Brother David,

Many of us did Bible Studies on this important topic with Paul2. The last I heard, Paul2 is going through some difficult health problems. I still pray for him and would love to see him back to continue this study.

We even had some differences, but I thought that made the study more interesting. It is a difficult and time-consuming study, but I think it's fascinating. The timing and sequence of End of this Age of Grace Events were the main source of differences. Some would say that great amounts of time should not be spent on a subject like this, but it actually involves many portions of the Bible and topics of great importance other than just the Rapture.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NASB
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

[David_james]

It is coming and we will go home

[nChrist]

It is coming and we will go home

Hello Brother David,

I've been without a computer and sure have missed everyone. I have a new computer now that I'm trying to learn, and things are looking good. This computer will last me until the RAPTURE. YES - The RAPTURE will happen, and it could be any time now! WHAT A DAY OF REJOICING THAT WILL BE! Brother, I'll see you in the clouds, and we'll run races.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 4:1-18 NASB  Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart,  2  but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.  3  And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing,  4  in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.  5  For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord, and ourselves as your bond-servants for Jesus' sake.  6  For God, who said, "Light shall shine out of darkness," is the One who has shone in our hearts to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.  7  But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves;  8  we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing;  9  persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;  10  always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.  11  For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.  12  So death works in us, but life in you.  13  But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE," we also believe, therefore we also speak,  14  knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you.  15  For all things are for your sakes, so that the grace which is spreading to more and more people may cause the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God.  16  Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.  17  For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,  18  while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

[David_james]

 

[nChrist]

Hello Brother David,

I'm glad to see this thread being looked at and studied again. It's a beautiful thing to think about, and something that could happen at any time. It's almost beyond human imagination, but IT'S GOING TO BE REAL. It's a Promise from GOD, ad GOD keeps all of HIS Promises!

HE gave us glimpses of the ULTIMATE REALITY in HIS WORD. We're just humans, so it is hard for us to imagine. Just think about what Jesus told His flock:

John 14:1-3 ASV  Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me.  2  In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.  3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Brother, you've seen the portions of Scripture below, but I love them and want to post them again.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ASV  13  But we would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning them that fall asleep; that ye sorrow not, even as the rest, who have no hope.  14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also that are fallen asleep in Jesus will God bring with him.  15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we that are alive, that are left unto the coming of the Lord, shall in no wise precede them that are fallen asleep.  16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;  17  then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.  18  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 ASV   50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.  51  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,  52  in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.  53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.  54  But when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.  55  O death, where is thy victory? O death, where is thy sting?  56  The sting of death is sin; and the power of sin is the law:  57  but thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.  58  Wherefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labor is not vain in the Lord.

Revelation 21:4-23 ASV   4  and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away.  5  And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true.  6  And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.  7  He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.  8  But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.  9  And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.  10  And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,  11  having the glory of God: her light was like unto a stone most precious, as it were a jasper stone, clear as crystal:  12  having a wall great and high; having twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:  13  on the east were three gates; and on the north three gates; and on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.  14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  15  And he that spake with me had for a measure a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.  16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length thereof is as great as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs: the length and the breadth and the height thereof are equal.  17  And he measured the wall thereof, a hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.  18  And the building of the wall thereof was jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto pure glass.  19  The foundations of the wall of the city were adorned with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, chalcedony; the fourth, emerald;  20  the fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, topaz; the tenth, chrysoprase; the eleventh, jacinth; the twelfth, amethyst.  21  And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; each one of the several gates was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.  22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God the Almighty, and the Lamb, are the temple thereof.  23  And the city hath no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine upon it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the lamp thereof is the Lamb.

Revelation 22:1-8 ASV  1  And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb,  2  in the midst of the street thereof. And on this side of the river and on that was the tree of life, bearing twelve manner of fruits, yielding its fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.  3  And there shall be no curse any more: and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be therein: and his servants shall serve him;  4  and they shall see his face; and his name shall be on their foreheads.  5  And there shall be night no more; and they need no light of lamp, neither light of sun; for the Lord God shall give them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.  6  And he said unto me, These words are faithful and true: and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angels to show unto his servants the things which must shortly come to pass.  7  And behold, I come quickly. Blessed is he that keepeth the words of the prophecy of this book.  8  And I John am he that heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel that showed me these things.