President Bush's approval rating drops to 38%

[Soldier4Christ]

The Skull and Bones Society is a college fraternity type organization that conspiracists due to their lack of knowing what it is has turned it into a big Satan driven anti-American, anti-Christian, one world order organization. The Skull and Bones Society is quite secretive as many frat groups sometimes tend to be. That and the fact that many of it's members have reached upper positions in our government have led to this conspiracy belief.

[Berean_Standards]

A fraternal organization is a brotherhood, and the Skull and Bones implies the same type of oaths that Freemasonry has, and it also has perverted sexual practices involved, among many other sketchy things like a "pirate" attitude. It is clear we are to have nothing to do with these things, even the Greek college fraternities are suspect, unless you feel fine being equally yoked to people (fraternity is literally "brotherhood") who regularly binge drink and engage in Bacchanalian orgies and promiscuity.

All too often I hear people pooh pooh this as just another "conspiracy theory", which is a silly phrase and denies the actual information involved. The Skull and Bones itself is literally a conspiracy- a secret and powerful organization with a ton of influence- the "secret" and "organization" and "powerful" (both pres. nominees were Bonesman) all make this a literal conspiracy- it's not some paranoid delusion, it's an accurate description of how leadership works in the world, by powerful people conspiring about certain very important matters in secret.

We are not to take oaths, we are not to be unequally yoked in the name of "reaching people for Jesus", and to avoid these groups is not being reclusive, it's avoiding a dark alliance. People are very naive to think Jesus just hung out with sinners all day- He hung out with his converts, and lived and worked in a world full of sinners as we all do. Paul says we COULD NOT remove ourselves from hanging out with sinners even if we wanted to, because we share the same planet with them (1 Cor. 5:9-11). There is no commandment from Jesus to "not avoid sinners but hang out with them", because this is just a fact of life anyway. All too many times I hear this baloney when Christians try to justify missionary dating and this kind of nonsense. We have to hang with sinners whether we want to or not, but we are not supposed to be equally yoked. Membership in a fraternal organization like the Skull and Bones is an unequal yoke and Bush needs to completely renounce this, and renounce his oaths and bonds of brotherhood. Instead he says things like "well, my involvement with them is so secretive that this is all I can say about that."

I don't know much about the Reagan era, just like I cannot comment on whether Bush is doing a good job or not politically, but I believe I do know discernment among Christians and I've had my questions about Reagan on that front as well. Didn't he belong to the masons as well, and didn't he participate in astrology? These are the kinds of things that people in power end up doing, and they stray from sound Christian doctrine. It's just the nature of power. Remember, what was the one thing Satan offered Jesus when he tempted him?

I have no problem with my fellow Christians getting involved in politics- I mean this is the one country where common people can supposedly do that. But I do have a problem with Christians praising a person(s) in office as the White Knight of Christianity when they probably need to be examined a little more in regards to that. It takes more than just being anti-abortion, and claiming you are a Christian etc. I mean we have a lot of really popular false teachers existing in America today, and people gullibly follow them because of a sort of basic form of ignorance about some Christian doctrine. I'm not a teacher by any means, but when I see leadership involved with these types of things I get upset and don't want to be associated with that, or have that lead unknowing Christians astray.

[Soldier4Christ]

Nightdriving,

People are very naive to think Jesus just hung out with sinners all day- He hung out with his converts, and lived and worked in a world full of sinners as we all do.

Jesus did "hang out with sinners all day". After all we are all sinners. Even the Apostles were sinners. After all this was the reason that Jesus came to us. When Jesus told us to come out from among them He was telling us not live as they do, to stand out as a living witness for Him.

President Reagan was not a freemason as many would have people to believe, neither was Billy Graham though many would claim to have such proof. Many such stories are told about various leaders in an attempt to try to destroy their leadership.

These leaders are placed into position by God or they would not be there. This does not mean that we are to worship them. After all they are just men and therefore sinners just as we are. Being a man, President Bush is far from being perfect.

As for the Skull and Bones. People admit it is secret, the members of it will not talk about it, yet there are so many that claim they know everything about it and are certain that it is evil. I ask, how do they know this when they admittedly know nothing about it? They make assumtions based on a few peoples crimes that just so happened to be members. Judas was an apostle and he also commited an evil atrocity. This does not make all of the Apostles evil.

When a person joins the Military, takes a government office, becomes a police officer, becomes a Doctor or a number of other such jobs they are required to take an oath. This does not and should not put their job ahead of God. We cannot all be Preachers or Deacons or .......  We all have different jobs according to that which God chooses us to be.

If a person should not get into politics then David, Solomon, Moses and many other such men of God were wrong and it was wrong of God to put them into that position. Note I say wrong of God because Moses did not want the responsibility of being a leader and God chose him and told Him to lead them anyway. Now we all know that God is never wrong.

[Berean_Standards]

Thanks for your response Pastor, but I believe you're over-generalizing my statements and missing my point.

I meant to differentiate between "sinners" and actual "coverts" of Jesus. Implying that if a prostitute or adulterer decided to follow Jesus they were no longer sinners in the Jewish sense, they were now converts to Christ and repented of their ways (hopefully, that's what's supposed to happen anyway). This was to repudiate the false belief that we are commanded to hang out with "sinners" for as I said, we could not avoid them if we tried according to Paul (1 Cor. 5:9-11). We will hang out with them no matter what, as a consequence of living on Earth. Sure, we are all sinners, but in Christ we are also now "priests and Kings and saints" and we are supposed to have repented of habitual sins. People use the whole swim-with-the-fishes attitude to justify things like missionary dating, which is totally wrong. That's what I was trying to say. We're fishermen, we don't swim with the fishes, know what I mean? We catch them from the safety of our boat and our own fellowship. This does not mean we avoid service or jobs, but rather avoid the unequal yoke, bonds of brotherhood, etc.

     But I would ask you this, didn't Jesus command us to not swear oaths? Because the armed services require oaths, does this then justify taking oaths when Jesus commanded againts it? Someday everyone will have to take an oath or a mark just to participate in society (that would be a 666) according to Revelations, so does that justify taking the mark, just because the military or political offices require it? Rather I say this is the beginings of lukewarm thinking, to say "well the military requires an oath, so it's not evil, even though Jesus COMMANDED against it." And by the way, Freemasonry and Skull and Bones require BLOODY OATHS that are public record, not conspiracy theory. This is nothing to sniff at.

As far as the whole good/evil politics thing, again I think you're misunderstanding me. My point is a Christian should not be involved with Freemasonry or anything closely related to it, which includes Skull and Bones. A christian also should not be involved in New Age practices like astrology, which Reagan was definitely into, that is a fact, not a rumor. But I understand the times, I understand people get confused about these things and are overwhelmed by the culture- hence my point here- you have to avoid PARTICIPATING in certain groups. You will never be able to avoid the actual individuals, it's there in common ground everyday life we witness to them, so the swim-with-the-fishes attitude angers me when trying to be applied to this situation.

You cannot be a Freemason and be a solid Christian at the same time, neither can you be a Bonesman. It is an unequal yoke. Look at what Bush said about Islam, that shows his incredible ignorance and worldliness in these matters of spirituality.

I never said a Christian should not get involved in politics. In fact I said the opposite, because this is one of the few countries that supposedly provides the opportunity. I'm only doubting how much integrity a Christian can maintain without compromising with such power in this CURRENT non-theocracy (the Bible guys you mentioned served in a theocracy, not a communitarian democracy). Please don't misrepresent my statements to try to make them detractable.

My point again, to clarify: Christians should not be a part of fraternal organizations like Freemasonry and Skull and Bones, and any Christian convert should renounce all fraternal allegiances to them and their oaths, otherwise they are unequally yoked. If Bush still considers himself a Bonesman, he is an ignorant, lukewarm Christian at best.

[Berean_Standards]

Actually, just to make my point super clear:

Can a Christian be a Freemason?

Can a Christian be a Bonesman?

The answer to both questions is a firm "absolutlely NOT".

That's my point.

[Soldier4Christ]

I agree with you on the freemason. There is not enough known about the other one to say that for certain one way or another.

[Berean_Standards]

Well, hopefully I can convince you of the sinister nature of the Skull and Bones Society.

The obvious thing that's well documented is the taking of blood oaths and occultic, mystical initiation rites similar to Masons and Mediterranean Mystery Cults, and ancient Egyptian religion. These rites include an initiate masturbating inside a coffin and discussing his entire sexual history with another brother, not as a confession at all, but as a sort of Hegelian dialect to desensitize the initiate to sin, and dissuade him from any moral foundation he may have had. They then obviously party down with co-eds as all college frats do, but with more power and money and secrecy backing the whole thing, so it is far more decadent than your average frat party.

I believe these are concrete, well-documented facts diclosed by witnesses, i.e. former Bonesmen and welcome or unwelcome observers.

A definite concrete fact is the symbolism of the group and what it represents. The Skull and Crossbones are a pirate motif and represent complete control of life and death. Pirates were murderous thieves, and also often involved in occultic practices. Now belonging to this group has much more serious implications I think, than say belonging to a baseball team called "the Pirates" because of the oaths and rituals and even the LIFESTYLE involved.

Everyone who's ever come in contact with even a college fraternity knows what goes on as far as drugs, alcohol, and sex are concerned. We all know Bush was into liquor, a womanizer, and a coke-head. I believe he repented of this (hopefully), but his reputation was obvious.

I think repenting of his membership in that club is obviously required. I can't see any reason for him to stay in it other than to maintain his power, at the risk of having many Christians such as myself not really trust him as a fellow Christian just yet.

[nChrist]

Hello Nightdriving,

   

The bones stuff was 30 years ago, a college fraternity, and both candidates were members. The election is over, so what is your point? John Kerry might run again, but George Bush won't, so are you doing early work on the 2008 election in case John Kerry runs? You won't have to worry about me. I would do a write in if John Kerry was the only candidate on the ballot.

Most people are smart enough to see through all of the politics, especially the dirty politics recently. Regardless, the election is over and George Bush won't be running again. So, what are you wanting or working for?

I do vote for a Democrat when I think they are the best person for the job. However, generally they have associated themselves with liberal principles that are anti-family, anti-morals, anti-God, the ACLU, and the Michael Moores of the society. If the party had any sense and wanted to attract more Christian voters, they would disassociate themselves from the OBVIOUS.

Tom

[Berean_Standards]

blackeyedpeas,

Apparently you are thinking I'm a liberal democrat of some sort out to smear Bush. I'm not out to do that. I disagree with most of the liberal things you mentioned, Kerry, the ACLU, etc.

I am not a Democrat, but neither am I a Republican- I pretty much refuse to cast votes for individuals at all because I don't want to be also held accountable for their inevitable crimes by throwing in my vote of support. If someone could point out a genuine Christian candidate I could trust I would support them- here in California it's not likely to happen- it's usually the "lesser of two evils" in which case I choose neither.

What I've been posting about actually has nothing to do with politics, rather I'm questioning the Christian nature of Bush.

Bonesman are in a lifetime fraternity, bound by oaths of brotherhood, so it doesn't matter if he was in school 30 years ago, he refuses to renounce his membership. If I saw Christians in the church who were Freemasons I would bring these things to their attention as well. So I don't care how long he serves or when his time is up, I want to be aware and want my fellow Christians to be aware of what public figures representing Christianity are all about especially if they have a ton of influence. We already have a load of false teachers on tv and radio making us look like fools to America. I do this in the spirit of the Bereans, who even questioned and tested Paul before they accepted him.

My problem, I guess, is with Christians gullibly holding up Bush as some sort of white knight of Christianity, when he is actually misrepresenting us if he is a Bonesman and saying the things about Islam he has said ("the Koran is the word of God" etc.) Hey, God bless Bush. I pray for him and all leaders, just as the Bible says. But I won't point out to unbelievers Bush or his work as a shining example of Christianity. Usually, I can't even defend Bush to unbelievers, just based on his political work. I mean, anybody find those WMD's yet? Iraq was apparently about as much of a threat to us with their "terrorism" as the rice farmers in Vietnam were a threat to us with their "communism". Bush is just a puppet of whatever power structures are out their with their globalist agendas. If he can't at least renounce his involvement with a secret society, what's left? Hey, he's apparently trying to get some anti-abortion justices into the Supreme Court, but other than that I can't even defend a majority of his political work to the world, as far as I know. And I don't know much about politics, I'm more concerned with where he stands as a Christian and how he represents us to the world.

So again, my point is, and I thought I made it clear: I don't like the fact that Bush is a Bonesman and I think he should renounce his oaths and bonds of brotherhood with them. It's akin to having a Freemason in the church, an unequal yoke.

[Soldier4Christ]

And I don't know much about politics,

That is very obvious by your following comments.

I mean, anybody find those WMD's yet? Iraq was apparently about as much of a threat to us with their "terrorism" as the rice farmers in Vietnam were a threat to us with their "communism".

As for your main point .......

Anyone that looks to any man as an example of Christianity is looking in the wrong direction. I would seriously suggest though instead of telling people who or what to not look to that we should be telling them who they should be looking to  .....  Jesus Christ very God.

[Berean_Standards]

Pastor,

Amen to your last comment. Thanks for putting that in perspective for me. But Bush being a Bonesman is still not sitting right, regardless.

[Berean_Standards]

The first comment has moved me to start another topic, where I'll voice my opinions on what you said.

[Jeff Mills]

I really do not believe in polls for the Prtesident's ratings!   let us look at what he has done.  Many people run him down for his Christian belief,and then he makes unchristian decisions.  I believe he has a host of bad advisors and hence he makes errors.   Who else will do better than him at the moment.  Please don't mention Hilary!

[nChrist]

I really do not believe in polls for the Prtesident's ratings!   let us look at what he has done.  Many people run him down for his Christian belief,and then he makes unchristian decisions.  I believe he has a host of bad advisors and hence he makes errors.   Who else will do better than him at the moment.  Please don't mention Hilary!

Hello Mills,

I don't believe in polls either. If they were accurate, Kerry would have beat Bush by 14%, and that didn't happen.

I can't remember a more volatile and important time in our recent history. I'm still optimistic that more positive things will be done to turn toward GOD.

By the way, I promise not to mention Hilary. If I do, please slap me and wake me up.  

Love in Christ,
Tom

Romans 15:5-7 NASB  Now may the God who gives perseverance and encouragement grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to Christ Jesus, so that with one accord you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God.