CHRIST OR the devil

[Mrs.Chosen]

I've noticed alot of people sticking up for religions and beliefes
that are not of CHRIST. Defending them and saying that they are not evil.
But in fact they are because if your Father is not GOD then your father is satan. It just that plan.
So that goes for cults, muslims, jews, mother nature worshipers, etc.


Can I get an amen?

[Jemidon2004]

It's interesting that a lot of people will stick up for religions and beliefs that are not of Christ. It seems they are prideful about their beliefs and will brag about it all over the place, to make themselves known and for self righteous purposes. Now i'm not saying Christians should do this...however, we win souls with humility and we claim a relationship with a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. No other religion in the world can claim this. So you get an Amen!

Joshua

[Bronzesnake]

I've noticed alot of people sticking up for religions and beliefes
that are not of CHRIST. Defending them and saying that they are not evil.
But in fact they are because if your Father is not GOD then your father is satan. It just that plan.
So that goes for cults, muslims, jews, mother nature worshipers, etc.


Can I get an amen?

Hello my friend. Sorry, I can't give you an Amen on this one. Sorry, but this time you are wrong my friend.

 With all respect, I must say that I am absolutely astounded at the ignorance concerning the Jews. It's almost at the point of arrogance. I'm not attacking anyone personally here, but I think this is an important topic. The Jews are not evil my friend.

 I am equally astounded that there doesn't seem to be any other Christian here who understands the unbreakable relationship between God, the Jews and Christians. I will go even further - if not for the Jew, then we as Christians would have no salvation - this is not my opinion alone - it comes straight from scriptures (Rom 11:11), as you will hopefully read from the verses I have posted below.

Please carefully read the following scriptures.

Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, [of] the tribe of Benjamin.  

Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,  

Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.  

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.  

Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.  

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.  

Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded  

Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.  

Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:  

Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.  

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.  

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?  

Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:  

Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh, and might save some of them.  

Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead?  

Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches.  

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;  

Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.  

Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.  

Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:  

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.  

Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.  

Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.  

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural [branches], be graffed into their own olive tree?  

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:  

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  

Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.  

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance.  

Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:  

Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.  

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.  

Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!  

Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?  

Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?  

Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

 Bronzesnake

[Mrs.Chosen]

JESUS CALLED THE JEWS EVIL MY FRIEND NOT ME.
I DON'T NEED TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE JESUS SAID IT ALL.
Matthew 7:21-23 (Contemporary English Version)

A Warning
   
(Luke 13.26,27)
   21Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in. 22On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles." 23But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"
   
Matthew 12:33-34 (New King James Version)


 

A Tree Known by Its Fruit
    (A) 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

[Bronzesnake]

JESUS CALLED THE JEWS EVIL MY FRIEND NOT ME.
I DON'T NEED TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE BECAUSE JESUS SAID IT ALL.
Matthew 7:21-23 (Contemporary English Version)

A Warning
   
(Luke 13.26,27)
   21Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in. 22On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles." 23But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"
   
Matthew 12:33-34 (New King James Version)


 

A Tree Known by Its Fruit
    (A) 33"Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

 How do you attribute those verses to the Jews? Jesus never called the "Jews" evil my friend. Did you even bother to read the verses I posted?

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:  

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  

If you don't believe these verses, then God is either a liar, or He was mistaken. I don't believe either of those explanations.

 Look my friend. I know it's hard to determine a persons attitude through reading a post. I want to assure you that I am not trying to come across as beligerant in any way. I am simply being honest and as straight forward as I can be.

 God made a special covenant with the Jews. He will keep that promise. Do the Jews need to accept Jesus? YES! can they get saved without Jesus? NO! will they accept Jesus? YES! how do we know they will? God says they will all be saved... all Israel shall be saved

 The Jews are not evil - they are sinners, but aren't we all sinners? If the Jews are evil, then we are all evil. If not for the "blindness" of the Jews, you would be condemned to Hell and the Lake of Fire...did you know that? It is in the scriptures my friend. So if the Jews are evil, then your salvation is attributed to satan.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but [rather] through their fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.  
Can't you grasp this verse my friend? Have they stumbled so they should fall? NO!  because they stumbled, salvation has come to you and me!!

Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?  
Do you understand what this verse is telling us?
If their "fall" causes salvation to the Gentile - if their "diminishing" brings light to us Gentiles, then how much more will their reward be?

Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
This verse is self evident.
 

 I don't know how much clearer it can possibly be.

Bronzesnake

[Mrs.Chosen]

Galatians 1:6-10 (Contemporary English Version)


The Only True Message
   6I am shocked that you have so quickly turned from God, who chose you because of his wonderful kindness. [a] You have believed another message, 7when there is really only one true message. But some people are causing you trouble and want to make you turn away from the good news about Christ. 8I pray that God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from our message to you! It doesn't matter if that person is one of us or an angel from heaven. 9I have said it before, and I will say it again. I hope God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from what you have already believed. 10I am not trying to please people. I want to please God. Do you think I am trying to please people? If I were doing that, I would not be a servant of Christ.
   

[Mrs.Chosen]

IF THE JEW IS NOT REJECTING GOD TODAY THEN PLEASE JUST BREAK THIS SCRIPTURE DOWN FOR ME. BECAUSE I AM TALKING ABOUT TODAY. IF A JEW DIES TODAY WITHOUT EXCEPTING JESUS AND SAYING "IM A CRISTIAN" THEN THEY WILL GO TO HELL.

Galatians 2:13-21 (New King James Version)


 
13And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

    14But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you[a] compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

    17"But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is Christ therefore a minister of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I build again those things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."

[Bronzesnake]

Galatians 1:6-10 (Contemporary English Version)


The Only True Message
   6I am shocked that you have so quickly turned from God, who chose you because of his wonderful kindness. [a] You have believed another message, 7when there is really only one true message. But some people are causing you trouble and want to make you turn away from the good news about Christ. 8I pray that God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from our message to you! It doesn't matter if that person is one of us or an angel from heaven. 9I have said it before, and I will say it again. I hope God will punish anyone who preaches anything different from what you have already believed. 10I am not trying to please people. I want to please God. Do you think I am trying to please people? If I were doing that, I would not be a servant of Christ.
   

 What makes you think that scripture is aimed at the Jews? Remember, Paul is the apostle of the Gentiles - he was speaking to the Gentiles, not the Jews.

There were many false teachings in those days, as there were in the days of Moses. Remember what the Jews did when Moses went up the mountain for fourty days? They made  idols of false gods.

 Sometimes we as Christians mistakingly seperate God and Jesus, even though we know Jesus is God - but He is still the same God of the Old Testament - He is still the same God who made an everlasting covenant with the Jews - God keeps His promises. Jesus addressed this when He said He had not come to destroy the old covenant, but that He had come to fulfill it.

 We can not discard God's Word - whether it's Old Testament or New. Yes, we must understand there is a new covenant - a fulfilling of the Old Covenant - buy how can we say that anything from God is evil? The Old Testament came from God - Jesus is God. God made an everlasting covenant with the Jews - Therefore, Jesus made an everlasting covenant with the Jews. God says the Jews will ALL be saved - He didn't say "some" of the Jews will be saved - He clearly says "all" of the Jews will be saved. Why don't you believe this?

 We can pick out many verses and take them out of context to show "none" are saved without Jesus, in order to "prove" the Jews are "evil" but we must remember that Jesus is the same God that said ALL THE JEWS WILL BE SAVED.

 Do you believe Jesus when He says this or not?

Take care my friend.
The items you make are awsome! It shows how much you really love Jesus.

Bronzesnake

[Mrs.Chosen]

QUOTE: "The Jews are not evil - they are sinners, but aren't we all sinners? If the Jews are evil, then we are all evil. If not for the "blindness" of the Jews, you would be condemned to Hell and the Lake of Fire...did you know that? It is in the scriptures my friend. So if the Jews are evil, then your salvation is attributed to satan."

lOOK i WILL TELL YOU THIS, i AM NO GOOD AND THERE IS NO GOOD IN ME EXCEPT CHRIST THAT LIVES IN ME. TAKE CHRIST AWAY AND I AM EVIL. SIN IS EVIL. AND IF I AM ALONE A SINNER AND NOT A SINNER SAVED BY GRACE, YO I AM EVIL.
I AM NOT SAYING GOD WILL BREAK HIS PROMISE, I KNOW HE WON'T. WHAT I AM SAYING THAT THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW AND GENTILE TODAY. WE ALL MUST COME TO CHRIST. THE TRUE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE STILL WAITING FOR THE MESSIAH RIGHT NOW TO COME WHEN HE HAS ALREADY CAME. IF THEY DIE TODAY THE WILL HAVE NO SAVIOR AND GO TO HELL. WHEN I READ ROMANS I KNOW THAT GOD HAS MADE A WAY FOR US AND I DO NOT THANK THE JEWS FOR REJECTING JESUS, THEY DID NOT TAKE HIS LIFE HE GAVE IT UP. THEY DO NOT GET ANY CREDIT FOR MY SALVATION. GOD MADE A WAY THROUGH THEM FOR ME AND I PRAISE HIM.
IN THE END THEY WILL BOW AND CONFESS JESUS IS LORD. BUT THE JEWISH OF TODAY HOLD TO THE LAW STILL. nOW THAT IS NOT TO SAY 100% OF THEM BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME THAT BELIEVE IN JESUS SO THEY ARE ONLY JEW BY BIRTH BUT CHRISTIAN BY FAITH.

ALL I'M SAYING IS YOU ARE EITHER FOR GOD RIGHT NOW OR AGAINST HIM. RIGHT NOW. TODAY. THATS MY WHOLE POINT.
CHRIST IN US MAKES US NOT EVIL IN GODS SIGHT.

[Mrs.Chosen]

thank you for the compliment.
but when you say all you can't just say all jews will besaved because in this day (please don't forget this is what I am stressing) all jews are not dieing with Jesus in their heart.
So those some are not in that all. Do you agree with that?
You are speaking of when Christ comes back again. I'm not talking about then.
When Christ comes back after believers are caught up there will be jews down here like
"YOOOOOOOOOOOO, it's true!!! Jesus you are GOD. OH wow!!
We believe we believe!!!!"
Bam then they all will be saved!! YEAH!!!! See i do get it.

[Jemidon2004]

Great ppoint made Bronze. I'm with you on what you said. It's true, the Jews aren't completely cast aside.

Joshua

[Mrs.Chosen]

POINTS ARE TAKEN BUT THE MAIN POINT IS BEING MISSED.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE MAIN POINT FOLKS.
THATS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO SAY.

[Jemidon2004]

lol...we're well aware that Christ is the main point. The fact of the matter is, not all of the Jews will come to Christ. However, there will come a time when they as a nation will see Him as the Messiah...but until then, many more will die. It's a sad thing, but it'll happen. Just a few thoughts...and kinda chill on the caps please...my eyes have a hard time focusing between the caps and the lower case letters. God Bless

Joshua

[Bronzesnake]

POINTS ARE TAKEN BUT THE MAIN POINT IS BEING MISSED.

JESUS CHRIST IS THE MAIN POINT FOLKS.
THATS ALL I'VE EVER WANTED TO SAY.

 I would never disagree with that!  

I'm saying to you that ALL JEWS will be saved by Jesus. Not just some.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  
 This verse tells us about a "mystery" and warns us not to be fooled and arrogant by thinking we know all the answers in regard to salvation - there is a "mystery" It goes on to explain the mystery. The Jews will be "blind" until the fulness of the Gentiles.
So, what is the "fulness of the Gentiles"? That's when Jesus returns! Well, what happens to the Jews when Jesus returns?
Read the next verse...

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:  
 All Israel shall be saved! Not just those who are alive at that time - ALL Israel. Jesus returns and wipes out ALL ungodliness from Jacob! The Jews will All BE REDEEMED!Why does God do this?
Read the next verse..

Rom 11:27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  
 He does it because He promised the Jews He would!

This shouldn't upset us my friend. We should rejoice that we are included into their covenant - that in effect is the new covenant - with them - not apart, or seperate from them - partakers with the Jews.

 That doesn't change the fact that we all (Jews included) must accept Jesus in order to be saved. God's covenant with the Jews stated that ALL the Jews "will accept Jesus"

 These are not my promises Lisa. They were made by God. God will keep His promise.

 Bronzesnake

[Mrs.Chosen]

quote"I would never disagree with that!  

I'm saying to you that ALL JEWS will be saved by Jesus. Not just some."

it just seems to me that you want to be right and not see where I am coming from even though I keep telling you I'm not talking about in the future, I am speaking of today and at this moment.
What is the doctrine that a true jewish person lives by right now 2/16/05