The Truth About God

[AngelicMan]

To All,
 Jehovah God the Father descended and assumed a Human that He might redeem men and save them.

In the Christian churches at this day it is believed that God the Creator of the universe begat a Son from eternity, and that this Son descended and assumed a Human in order to redeem and save men.

This is an error, and of itself falls to the ground as soon as it is considered that God is one, and that it is worse than incredible in the sight of reason to say that the one God begat a Son from eternity, and that God the Father, together with the Son and Holy Spirit, each one of whom singly is God, is one God.

This incredible notion is wholly dissipated, like a falling star in midair, when it is shown from the Word that Jehovah God Himself descended and became Man and also Redeemer.

The first statement, that it was Jehovah God Himself who descended and became Man, is made clear in the following passages:
 Behold, a virgin shall conceive and shall bear a Son, who shall be called God-with-us (Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:22, 23).

 Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, God, Mighty, Father of Eternity, the Prince of Peace (Isa. 9:6).

 It shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him that He may deliver us; this is Jehovah; we have waited for Him; let us exult and be glad in His salvation (Isa. 25:9).

 The voice of one crying in the desert, Prepare ye the way of Jehovah; make level in the wilderness a highway for our God, and all flesh shall see it together (Isa. 40:3, 5).

 Behold, the Lord Jehovah cometh in strength, and His arm shall rule for Him behold, His reward is with Him. He shall feed His flock like a shepherd (Isa. 40:10, 11).
 
 Jehovah said, Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for lo, I come to dwell in the midst of thee. Then many nations shall cleave to Jehovah in that day (Zech. 2:10, 11).

 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and I will give thee for a covenant of the people. I am Jehovah; this is My name; My glory will I not give to another (Isa. 42:6-8).

 Behold, the days come, that I will raise up unto David a righteous Branch and He shall reign as King, and He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth, and this is His name, Jehovah our righteousness (Jer. 23:5, 6; 33:15, 16).
See also the places where the Lord's coming is called "the day of Jehovah" (as in Isa. 13:6, 9, 13, 22; Ezek. 31:15; Joel 1:15; 2:1, 2, 11; 3:1, 14, 18; Amos 5:13, 18, 20; Zeph. 1:7-18; Zech. 14:1, 4-21; and elsewhere).

That it was Jehovah Himself who descended and assumed the Human is especially evident in Luke, where it is said:
     Mary said to the angel, How shall this come to pass, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing that is born of thee shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:34, 35).
 
And in Matthew:
 The angel said to Joseph, the bridegroom of Mary, in a dream, that that which was begotten in her was of the Holy Spirit. And Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called His name Jesus (Matt. 1:20, 25).

It will be shown in the third chapter of this work that the Divine that goes forth from Jehovah God is what is meant by the Holy Spirit.

Who does not know that the offspring has its soul and life from the father, and that the body is from the soul?

Can anything, then, be more plainly declared than that the Lord had His soul and life from Jehovah God; and as the Divine cannot be divided, that the very Divine of the Father was His soul and life?

This is why the Lord so often called Jehovah God His Father, and why Jehovah God called Him His Son. Can there be anything, then, more absurd than to say that the soul of the Lord was from His mother Mary?

Harry
 

[Bronzesnake]

To All,
 Jehovah God the Father descended and assumed a Human that He might redeem men and save them.

In the Christian churches at this day it is believed that God the Creator of the universe begat a Son from eternity, and that this Son descended and assumed a Human in order to redeem and save men.

This is an error, and of itself falls to the ground as soon as it is considered that God is one, and that it is worse than incredible in the sight of reason to say that the one God begat a Son from eternity, and that God the Father, together with the Son and Holy Spirit, each one of whom singly is God, is one God.

This incredible notion is wholly dissipated, like a falling star in midair, when it is shown from the Word that Jehovah God Himself descended and became Man and also Redeemer.

The first statement, that it was Jehovah God Himself who descended and became Man, is made clear in the following passages:
 Behold, a virgin shall conceive and shall bear a Son, who shall be called God-with-us (Isa. 7:14; Matt. 1:22, 23).

 Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government shall be upon His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, God, Mighty, Father of Eternity, the Prince of Peace (Isa. 9:6).

 It shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him that He may deliver us; this is Jehovah; we have waited for Him; let us exult and be glad in His salvation (Isa. 25:9).

 The voice of one crying in the desert, Prepare ye the way of Jehovah; make level in the wilderness a highway for our God, and all flesh shall see it together (Isa. 40:3, 5).

 Behold, the Lord Jehovah cometh in strength, and His arm shall rule for Him behold, His reward is with Him. He shall feed His flock like a shepherd (Isa. 40:10, 11).
 
 Jehovah said, Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for lo, I come to dwell in the midst of thee. Then many nations shall cleave to Jehovah in that day (Zech. 2:10, 11).

 I, Jehovah, have called thee in righteousness, and I will give thee for a covenant of the people. I am Jehovah; this is My name; My glory will I not give to another (Isa. 42:6-8).

 Behold, the days come, that I will raise up unto David a righteous Branch and He shall reign as King, and He shall execute judgment and righteousness in the earth, and this is His name, Jehovah our righteousness (Jer. 23:5, 6; 33:15, 16).
See also the places where the Lord's coming is called "the day of Jehovah" (as in Isa. 13:6, 9, 13, 22; Ezek. 31:15; Joel 1:15; 2:1, 2, 11; 3:1, 14, 18; Amos 5:13, 18, 20; Zeph. 1:7-18; Zech. 14:1, 4-21; and elsewhere).

That it was Jehovah Himself who descended and assumed the Human is especially evident in Luke, where it is said:
     Mary said to the angel, How shall this come to pass, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee; therefore also that holy thing that is born of thee shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:34, 35).
 
And in Matthew:
 The angel said to Joseph, the bridegroom of Mary, in a dream, that that which was begotten in her was of the Holy Spirit. And Joseph knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son, and he called His name Jesus (Matt. 1:20, 25).

It will be shown in the third chapter of this work that the Divine that goes forth from Jehovah God is what is meant by the Holy Spirit.

Who does not know that the offspring has its soul and life from the father, and that the body is from the soul?

Can anything, then, be more plainly declared than that the Lord had His soul and life from Jehovah God; and as the Divine cannot be divided, that the very Divine of the Father was His soul and life?

This is why the Lord so often called Jehovah God His Father, and why Jehovah God called Him His Son. Can there be anything, then, more absurd than to say that the soul of the Lord was from His mother Mary?

Harry
 

What Bible are you reading?

Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

Mat 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whomsoever the Son will reveal [him].

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.

Luk 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jhn 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jhn 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

 Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Jhn 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

[Bronzesnake]

The True Bible teaches Trinity.

 
    Hbr 1:1   God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,  
   
    Hbr 1:2   Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;  
   
    Hbr 1:3   Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;  
   
    Hbr 1:4   Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.  
   
    Hbr 1:5   For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?  
   
    Hbr 1:6   And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.  
   
    Hbr 1:7   And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.  
   
    Hbr 1:8   But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.  
   
    Hbr 1:9   Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.  
   
    Hbr 1:10   And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:  
   
    Hbr 1:11   They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;  
   
    Hbr 1:12   And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.  
   
    Hbr 1:13   But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?  
   

[Corpus]

And besides,

"Jehovah" just ain't a good rendering.

[Shiro]

Angelic Man
Weapon: Modalism Theory

Seriously, your idea of Jehovah God descending, and THEN becoming Jesus Christ, without begetting a Son of God, is a clear example of the heretical doctrine of modalism.

Think of the true example of God/Jesus this way:

The fullness of God can be seen as a body.

My hands are quite different from my feet, but they are still me. Just the same, there are differences between God the Father and Jesus Christ, but they are still fully god.

Jesus is still both fully God and fully man (he'd have to be, to pay for all mankind's sin).

[Bronzesnake]

Angelic Man
Weapon: Modalism Theory

Seriously, your idea of Jehovah God descending, and THEN becoming Jesus Christ, without begetting a Son of God, is a clear example of the heretical doctrine of modalism.

Think of the true example of God/Jesus this way:

The fullness of God can be seen as a body.

My hands are quite different from my feet, but they are still me. Just the same, there are differences between God the Father and Jesus Christ, but they are still fully god.

Jesus is still both fully God and fully man (he'd have to be, to pay for all mankind's sin).

Nicely stated.

Also...
I am a father. I am a son. I am a grandfather. I am a brother,
and yet I am one.

[Shiro]

//Urge... to.. reference... Mega Man... rising.... Must... not... weaken....

Fine.

So we defeated Angelic Man, but he can keep his weapon, as it's not very good anyway.

[AngelicMan]

The doctrine of three Divine persons, both in past and at the present day, has sprung solely from a failure to understand the Divine Esse.

 The unity of God is inmostly inscribed on the mind of every man, since it lies at the center of all that flows from God into the soul of man,and yet it has not descended  into the human understanding, for the reason that the knowledges by which man must ascend to meet God have been lacking.

For everyone must prepare the way for God, that is, must prepare himself for reception.

This is done by means of knowledges. The knowledges that have been lacking, and that enable the understanding to penetrate far enough to see that God is one, and that a second person with the same Divine Esse is not possible.

Jehovah God saided, His glory He would not share with another.I Jehovah will give thee for a covenant to the people, for a light of the nations. I am Jehovah, that is My name, and My glory (Divinity)will I not give to another (Isa. 42:6, . This means Jehovah God the Father will not have another god like unto Himself,with the same Divine Esse.

Harry

[Bronzesnake]

The doctrine of three Divine persons, both in past and at the present day, has sprung solely from a failure to understand the Divine Esse.

 The unity of God is inmostly inscribed on the mind of every man, since it lies at the center of all that flows from God into the soul of man,and yet it has not descended  into the human understanding, for the reason that the knowledges by which man must ascend to meet God have been lacking.

For everyone must prepare the way for God, that is, must prepare himself for reception.

This is done by means of knowledges. The knowledges that have been lacking, and that enable the understanding to penetrate far enough to see that God is one, and that a second person with the same Divine Esse is not possible.

Jehovah God saided, His glory He would not share with another.I Jehovah will give thee for a covenant to the people, for a light of the nations. I am Jehovah, that is My name, and My glory (Divinity)will I not give to another (Isa. 42:6, . This means Jehovah God the Father will not have another god like unto Himself,with the same Divine Esse.

Harry

What Bible are you reading?
Or are you too ashamed to tell?

[Saved_4ever]

I haven't even read his trash but my guess is he's using a NWT or something along those lines or he just is trying to paraphrase.  You can usually spot a Jehovah's Witness by the massive use of "Jehovah".  They need to use this bible to prove that Jesus was not God.  

They don't have John were it says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.

Theirs says "was A God".

[Bronzesnake]

I haven't even read his trash but my guess is he's using a NWT or something along those lines or he just is trying to paraphrase.  You can usually spot a Jehovah's Witness by the massive use of "Jehovah".  They need to use this bible to prove that Jesus was not God.  

They don't have John were it says: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.

There's says was A God.

Ya, I'm thinking NWT also. It's funny...whenever you ask these people what Bible they're useing they don't like to let you know do they?

[Saved_4ever]

Nope, they usually beat around the bush because they know eventually they will get beat over the head with it.  

[Shiro]

I strongly disagree with KJV-only theology, but I'm sure we're all in agreement that the NWT != a good bible translation.

It won't allow for a Triune God, but it calls the Word a god (which is absurd without there being multiples.)

I can't believe I used to BE a JW.    
(!= means isn't, for all unfamiliar with programming.)

[suzie]

Shiro-

You were once a JW? How did you come to realize the false teaching?  

This is not JW teaching for they revive the ancient heresy put forward by Arius in the fourth century...Jesus is not fully God but "a god" They identify him as Michael the archangel, believing he was God's first creation, thus a creature rather than Creator.

[Petro]

Angelic Man, Shiro


What is it with you guys, why is it that JWs are dishonbest.

On the "Error in Doctrine" thread on this forum, Angelic Man, posted his reply #47, where he gave his understanding of the triune nature of the GodHead.

I responded to Harry the same day, at reply #48,  and then the next day he edited his response to make it state something altogether different than what he initially posted, after he realized he made a mistake..

Your dishonesty, just goes to show , to what extremes you will go, to deny the diety  of Jesus.

But no matter what you say, think, or do, it won't change the scriptures, especially  at Jhn 12:41, where John, says; that Isaiah saw Jesus, The King, The Lord of Hosts in that vision  Isaiah had, at Isa 6:1-5.

This vision of Jesus, is of Him, as King of Kings, and Lord of Lords, at His second coming, in the Temple He will build, according to 1 Chr 17:1-5, when God spoke these words to Nathan the prophet to tell King David.

You got confused because, at your NWT, the Word Jehovah is used to describe the "Lord of Hosts" at verses 3, and 5 of Isaiah 6.

The Apostle John at chapter 12, tells us, Isaiah saw his Jesus) glory and spoke of him.


So then, the Lord of Hosts of the OT, is Jesus Christ of the NT.

Pay attention, fellows..


Petro