and i have broken the rules where?
or I have made rules where?
did I make bold statements about complaining? they would be bold if most dont agree, i would hope you agree with the mote/beam thing
and by the way mote/beam is in the bible
i do make bold statements often without sighting the scripture it is from, but they are the statements i hope we already in agreeance in, and where enough scriptures have already been stated by others
as ive said, this isn't us being taught by 1 guy, who tells us what to read. it is a discussion forum
am i being punished for being better at the "discussion" aspect than others

btw i take a breather after or before every post, but i wont not respond when i have been so eloquently teamed up on in a subtle way

so lets calm down together, and maybe since i dont know anything about you guys, which is mostly the way it should be, you should stop thinking you know anything about me
when i receive hostility from unknown forces of words, it doesn't have to be from a particular source, external, or your internal anger, it is in words... and I will refute them with my own.... that doesn't mean im hostile, it means I respect myself, and see how easily one person can be made to look like a fool by a bunch of howling hyenas. I use words so that you dont become those howling hyenas, because if you words back and settle the discussion down then we are all civilized, and the hyenas become a picture only making sense to politicians and media nuts

tty soon no doubt
lights out

no 2nd timothy i think your post was completely ignorant, and took things out of context that i said. which if i did stand up and preach aginst there would be MANY people to back me up. Many who you seem to think agree with you in trashing me without taking into account the full context.,.... esp about me referring to if people want to hear me preach or not. if i have the truth (understanding that i am preaching a need for salvation to the lost, not to us genuine believers) then you have NO right to dismiss Gods ability to use me. You do have a right to be ignopant though, but i would suggest your post/attitude just backs up my post by being unfounded and weak-hearted... the essence of this destablization force

God bless

The reason I made this post is because I was positive there were people out there like you folk who are completely blind about you power. You are all wrong. Firstly, the fact that one or two out of a hundred Christians might get the message from God to be a soldier, cannot be an opposite justification for the other 98 to believe everything the government says.

 Take into account my dear friends that the Old Testament was written to the Nation of Israel which has come under serveral attacks in the past of enemies trying to utterly destroy theyre whole people, we have not (save perhaps from hitler if your imaginations stretches that far.) In truth the New Testament is our code of conduct now, even for present day Jews. Do you think Sharon is a Christian, if so, you, and not me, are the truly blind ones. The Old Testament says many things that YOU 3-4 people I guarantee would not want me to stand up and teach. For example : the right to drink in moderation. 1 example is all I need. You would preach back at me that Jesus' principles are completely different than Solomons, and thus I should follow the life of Jesus and not Solomon.

 When you refer to the fact that Muslims remember Jesus with affection as an evil thing, I call you out most effectively. While there is still a chance to be saved, we must be of the heart that all are the same as us. Basically it is the idea of Paul the Apostle who teaches the Corinthians that they have received the Gospel in the same way as he has. The Corinthians by the way were the most immoral setting around. Whoring/drunkenness was just the start. It might as well have been a ghetto in the states where many of American soldiers come from, or towns in Pakistan that still treat theyre women as objects they can rape as they please.

 You call me foolish to expect that the 98 Chrisitans who do not feel it righteous to EVER take up a gun as a job, in this futuristic world (where if you didn't realize, there would be no problem creating forces in every country even without any Christians at all) would in fact use up theyre lives to present peace to ALL people, not a select few neighbours. When we decide what poor people deserve to hear the message of God it will ALWAYS turn into a Christian organization, which I also dont find to be biblical, kind of like the comparison between non-biblical "Christian COnferences" which should in my opinion be replaced with every assembly teaching themselves, or having teachers come to theyre circles. We are to be taken up with the ministry of the saints, and the preaching of the Gospel....

but right now we are taken up with the "end times" like a bunch of proud governments of individuals. We daily go out and represent the fear-mongering among the truly righteous that keeps individuals from being inspired to be servants to Gods universally purposed government. We are to be unaffected (based on new testament principles) by the wars and rumours of wars, and to see that obviously our Lord has not yet returned. So if you are aware that our Lord might return in 500 years just as much as you could in the next minute, then you would have to be aware that certain religions might be purposed by God to see the error of theyre ways. You do not make Gods geo-salvation plans, and to suppose it righteous to be on anyone elses soil in the name of God killing people is like saying that police (as you so mockingly brought up) dont already have the authority of God to shoot to kill if need be.

Every day we are in parts of the world that are unstable to our terms, for the purpose of force, in the name of God, we will be flaunting our scriptures in theyre faces and fuelling the actual biblical war (which we are NOT supposed to do.) The Americans/Canadians/British alone have enoug covert-opps forces/resources to have fougt this ENTIRE war through the back door by simple sharing of information with police, and clear-cut (God-justified) responses to the media to show what they are doing after they do it. The difference here would be that it would draw a clear line for the Muslim countries/masses who DO NOT see the Koran insighting violence, to understand the difference between themselves and the terrorists. As we speak we are promoting violence that in fact brands the Koran as evil, and it is not our place to do so. It is our place to make believers in the Koran to see who God really is by us preaching peace, unilaterally, and unequivocally.

Just because im a Canadian does not mean I dont know what capabilities God has in 1 man, in 1 force, or in 1 continent. Nor does it mean I dont understand your ignorant masses who claim to be Christians when they are not. You have as many evil Churches standing up for our God as Canada does, and I dont see where you get off sitting back behind your computers, finding other geo-poltical nutbars who have similar "end time" nonsense ideas, and thus justify your sons/daughters to suit up and grab a gun.

The feeling of God cringing in me when I am told that the job of a soldier in todays world is to be a trained assassin, is NOT me being weak. Rather if I am right then I am facing off with an entire population as I speak, and that makes me courageous, NOT WEAK. So when I felt God inside me cringe, that in fact was the Universal Church cringing to see how dark our day is. We are such an immoral NA, that when something like this happens around the world we are clouded by our daily lives, and the waste of ourselves we wish to protect. We like being proud in knowing about the end times, and thus we WANT to listen to all the rumours and preach about how they mean the end,and mean we are justified to kill.

 BUT NONE OF YOU CAN SHOW ME A VERSE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT GIVING JESUS/GODS/HOLY SPIRIT APPROVAL TO BE A PART OF OUR COUNTRIES MILITARY FORCES.

btw, take into account "soldier" in NT, actually means police officer. If the police find Bin Laden, then I approve. If you make a military force of destabilization seem like some God-justified policing force, then you are the blinded ones, not me. You would have in essence given a green light to signal the end.
God be with you, and God straighten you out
lightsavour out

Was my thread titled "pascifism"? Nope. if you want to go killing people for Jesus go right ahead, but unlike you I dont read the New Testament as a justification for governments, but for individuals between them and theyre God. The way for you to work up the ladder (Jacobs ladder) is to preach the gospel, not spray bullets back at an enemy. If you are in danger of dying then its your time to go, and if you can save someone by throwing your body in front of theyres on the street, then do it, and trust in God that he sees your sleeves rolled up doubly.

 The most indepth thing Jesus taught about government is for us to pray for them, not to be involved. And military/army is government. You cant escape it, they are intertwined beyond our ability to discern right and wrong. If you (YOU) feel it right to be in the army, then that is an individual feeling based on how YOU see the world, not from something direct you could EVER find in the new testament. And if you found your peace from the Old Testament, then I would agree that God has peace in the Old Testament for people in that situation, and I almost saw it for myself at times. I didn't however, when I walked in the reserve office the man said "this is a jump throug a window, run up behind a guy and slit his throat kind of job" (and i live in canada, but take into account the geo political world is rapidly changing. When he said it, I felt God inside me cringe. Even if I made it out of my time of duty able bodied to serve Jesus' true purpose, perhaps I would have been clouded by the world based on me not having a direct verse to justify me to begin with.

So when I say you might get peace from the Old Testament to be in the army, what I mean is that God might need some righteous hearts on the battlefield, that doesn't mean us who stay home have to be blinded by our pompous governments. Nor by the consequences of theyre actions, or the actions of the media/culture which reflects the beliefs of its country.

I most deffinately disagree with you. And your attitude is exactly what I'm talking about. You not only think it is right for some Christians to be on the battlefield for the purpose of God having some morally upright hearts in the dark spots of the world, but you think our Countries in whole are righteous in theyre actions.

Do you not realize that the average Muslim regards Jesus as one of theyre prophets? I dont agree with them of course, but it is a direct sign that God is working with them to show that Mohommad needed to retain the birth of the peace knowledge he had (which was Abraham/Jesus.) So are you ready to just smash out the hope of the worlds Muslims to one day be converted to the truth just because you want to be apathetical about the fact it is US, and not the U.S. that is fuelling the extremists purpose? And I do notice you are from the USA, I am referring to genuine Christians, who unbeknownst to most everyone in the world, are the only way any country has the continued idea they are just. Because we who would know what peaceable words to say dont stand up, the people who know theyre purpose isn't peace, but relative calm DO stand up. We are telling the extremists through our peace inaction on our own soil that we embrace the idea of Bin Laden as the Anti-Christ, and it is an apathy situation that the New Testament is outrightly against.

God bless

Yes forgiveness is our true food, it is the act of unconditional love. It is the outworking of our faith, and the sign to fellow believers that we are genuine. Thankfully as you say God in essence is "Just Forgiveness", so when we fall short (which is more often then not), we confess, are forgiven before we do, and can regain even more strength than before to turn around and forgive those who have done wrong to us. It is good to note that we have to forgive those who have done wrong to people close to us too, the relativity of Gods commands are endless, and it is not wise to be wise of your ignornace, but rather to seek wisdom where you are aware you lack.

forgiveness is Gods formula for learning all his wisdom.

God bless
lightsavour

I have often had discussion with my Father about the book of Jude as to whom it was written to. Of course the lessons in it are for all of us, but it says "there should be mockers in the last time" in my opinion this refers to the day of grace, but if my memory serves me correct my father believes it means for during the tribulation.

anyways as I see it the verses are all dealing with false prophets. But it is dealing with the opposite of being a true disciple, of which there are many forms.
"these be they who separate themselves sensual, having not the spirit."

 The cause of these men is to seduce others with the deadliest darkness there is, the actual message of Satan, that man is ok on his own, and can prove it by preaching passion/pleasure of life without Jesus. They are very much the darkest people alive in our world today(is how I see it.) They are worse then the vain religions of JW, or mormons (even though these things are evil too.) They represent the evil force that is gathering against God himself, and they do so by the message of the anti-christ, which is a false message of peace. I would suggest that alot of actors, politicians, rich/influential people are represented in these words. I am not condemning art/politics/money, but the next verse seems very clear to me..... (thougth I could still be wrong)

verse 23 "And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted with the flesh."

 This is interpreted differently by different people, but "the garment spotted with the flesh" means the appearance of morality to me. If I am correct in this, then it should not be so hard to see how we are surrounded with these people, even though we think we aren't. We watch the news, movies and listen to music, and make money deals and feast (enjoy life) in all sorts of places that are inhabited by people whose soul purpose is to destroy the bible from within. They are not within, but by eleoquent vanity they use word trickery and get into our circles, or our homes, and unless we are very aware we often dont realize evil is right beside us.

 Jude presents the "end times" to us in a way that is like a Captain passing on the orders he has been given, so that we can own them for ourselves. If we own the order, then we see it is our responsibility to not allow these evil travellers to slip by undetected, and with a heart of deep compassion our awareness will wake many of theyre slaves up, and with a forthright fear of the Lord we can even be used to halt these evil ones on theyre paths.

 Thats what I've seen anyways. I'd like to hear other ideas as well, Jude has always been a very interesting book to me, like a stab of light just before revelations shows the sure end to meet any who are still lost.

God bless
lights out

a few too many verses to corroborate something i already so eloquently explained, but yes I agree
lol
lights out

In 2001 the world was surprised by the terrorist attacks against American soil in the form of 4 planes crashing into 3 different places to much literal/emotional/political destruction. It literally destroyed 2 buildings, harmed a 3rd, and killed close to 5000 people. We all know this, and most dont forget a second of the images that we saw and the voices we heard. Now the democratic world is fighting a cross-boundaried war against an unknown enemy that temporarily is embodied by muslim extremists. We might disagree over the war being just, or the true intent of different governments, but in all reality no one agrees with the terrorists. What I am concerned with is the fact that in a subtle and unnerving way the democratic world has basically backed up the use of force to fascilitate peace.

When America first went to war with Afghanistan there was a unanimous outcry that Bush himself was to blame, either for good or for evil. Now that people understand just how covert the democratic countries spyworld is, we now mostly unanimously agree that covert operations should be used to combat the exact opposite, which is these terrorists. The justification of course is that the free world shouldn't have to come into contact with terrorism, so if we fight covertly on the enemies soil to track down and kill evil then we are in fact using all our means to become civilised in a fight that we demand to at least "look" just.

This is not right. The base of muslim extremism is an infinite hatred of our God, and there is absolutely nothing that men can do to stop this problem from persisting. When Sept 11th happened, there were actually 3 wars going on. There was the terrorist war (democracy vs terrorism), there was the muslim war (holy jihad), and there was traces of the biblical war (God against the greater part of the world who honour Satan.) These wars might seem interlinked, but in truth they are not. There are countries with large muslim populations that will be looked on kindly during the tribulation, and there are democratic countries that will not be. Democracy is just our present form of governing, and not Gods unique design to give men godliness. The terrorism war is not new, and it is not based on muslim vs christian, but rather terror revolutionists of all race/culture/faith(religions) and has been waged for years. It is a war of revenge, and all democratic countries were more aware of this war then the Muslim war, and far more aware of terrorism than they are of the bible. The biblical war is really only understood by a few people, and even then only in finite terms.

 The bible itself says "there will be wars/pestilence/plague/wars/rumours of wars... be not troubled, for the end is not yet." <--- paraphrased of course... but it was Jesus' message to believers to see only 1 war, the biblical, and not to be swayed by the happenings of time.

 My idea is simple. Bush is supposed to be a Christian, and so are many other high level people, and supposedly America is a Christian country. This is not biblical, and is the same thing as adding fuel to rumours, based on the Muslim idea that all Christian countries are in fact enacting the Christian God/morals to fight on theyre side. No country in this day can say they are fighting for the will of God, and no country ever does this openly, but many allow that to be the sentiment when they go to war....

 When Democracy went to war against terrorism, they became terrorists based on our own unanimous lack of morals. We can be as moral as we want, but if we do not turn the cheek then when we say we fight for the bible we in fact become hypocrites. When Afghanistan/Iraq turned into fake wars (ie, no continued political justification to be in those places) we in fact played right into the hands of Bin Laden and his terrorist friends. Rich Democratic leaders have become more powerful because of Bin Laden then they ever would have been, and the democracy vs terrorism war has really just begun. In the past it was civil unrest that gave democratic countries the right, or feesible right to intervene with force, but now it is one or two determined men.

Terror is kind of like the manna of media, and it has been a part of our culture since well before Sept 11th, only now, in a day when America/Britain/Canada (and others) pretend they are fighting for God... they give media the strength to create real fictiscious ideas about our unanimous future righteousness in the eyes of God. In all truth there might be more diabolical False Prophets in America then there are in any other parts of the world. Take Tom Cruise and Scientology for example.

The temporary end result of all that has happened since Sept 11th is this : Bin Laden's plan worked, and he has kindled a fire that is so confusing and misinterpreted that he can create sub-leaders of his purpose in almost every land. They are the people who understand no man has the right to kill another, and they come from every kind of descent. Now, in our moments of most self-righteous ideology, I expect that another terrorist attack is going to happen soon. I expect it, because I see democratic countries becoming very pompous in theyre self righteous attitudes, and frankly I know Bin Laden is a smart man, and he knows that Bush is more his friend then his enemy. In the grand scale of things, the man who unwittingly coherses his own immoral publics to think they are fighting for the just God, when they are not... is the more volatile man. It doesn't matter if Bush is a christian or not, he is leading a war that fosters hate, and all that needs to happen is for one big attack against US soil in the next year or so, and there will be an unequevicol uproaring from the masses of democratic people who in the recent past fought against Bush's war. They will be warring against an extremism that is alive in themselves, which they believe will only be hidden by this pompous Christians unilateral military attitude to earth.

 We are on the brink of another great disaster, because as North Americans we can daily feel like whats happening to the world is just, and that it doesn't matter to us. This will forever fuel hatred, and will forever be the base finite thinking that creates the force which will war against our Lord himself. So the next time you are ready to help foster self-righteous attitudes about our people, and how Bin Laden is the sign of the end times, look closer to home... and see the UNILATERAL destablization of peace on all fronts.

 Terrorists hate our money, our immorality and our apathy. But most of all they just hate us for being able to live as if theyre purpose doesn't exist and will be wiped off the earth. It wont be wiped off the earth until God wipes it off, and thus its only going to grow stronger. The truth is that we should be expecting it to cross spiritual boundaries soon. Soon this terror extremism is going to cross into our own people who secretly have always known they weren't living for God, and who know we are, and who prefer the idea that they could kill God by killing us.

 Thats what I believe anyways. Feel free to shoot me down if you want    i mean it metaphorically!!!  I hope

lights out

I know people who have verses on billboards near highways, and people who have verses written on theyre vehicles in big letters on the side, or back window. I'm not comparing the two, but I think these things are all very effective. Any thought that is planted for the purpose of God is remembered, just like the evil thoughts of the devil. So it is just a matter of seeing that one persons miniscule change in thinking because of something like this is a positive effect that God will most deffinately use.

the billboards would be in the same category as churches using sports for outreach work, or music. the sports and music is really just fleshly wisdom, but it has the potential to translate into spiritual wisdom in the hearts of many. These things are all good, but the people doing them have to be active in prayer to hear Gods direction no matter what it is.

I pray for God to bless all of our tiny efforts, because the Bible says that he hears us, and he wants to bless them.
lightsavour out

I would say that God thinking to us is our spirituality, and nothing less would constitute good thoughts. Also I would say that in regards to actions for his purpose, that only in seeing Gods Almighty strength to give us that opportunity will ever equate us actually doing something for God. Thus we can do an infinite number of things for God in our lives, but it is all based on our motives in each moment, and not our positional truth. So to say because you are striving to do good that you are in fact thinking like God is completely wrong. Our potential good acts in time are in essence giving all glory to God (triune.) So our testimonies should always be humble and aware of just how much we ourselves need the message we are sharing to souls we hope would receive it.

 So yes I would say it is our spiritual tendancy(fleshly state) to think base thoughts, and Gods complete/perfect conviction to fill us with the opposite of us. Even before we get saved we will have a history to look back on (I hope and pray) that is both beautiufl/complex/simplistic. It is a history of God(triune) working to open our hearts to him, but it is also a history of slavery to the devil himself. After we get saved we have the Holy Spirit within us always desiring to have our heart more open to hear God, but in fact God is already in us fully, it is only us who can give more of ourself over to him. So to say that our base of thinking gets changed at salvation, or anytime into Gods thinking is incorrect. Scripturally we only understand a finite portion of what God intends for us to believe/accept is true. Our humanism/flesh will continue for all of time, all we can do is become more willing servants to obey Gods will and refuse our own.

It is the daily spiritual purpose of dying again on the cross with Jesus, and being reborn again of the spirit. We dont get saved again, but we need to redeem the time each and every moment, and the spiritual forumla is prayer/confession that will keep us always yearning to understand the door of Jesus more every day.

Basically what Im saying is this : Show me the most genuine spritiually influential preacher/teacher/pastor in time and I will show you a man whose thoughts continually fail him.

Does that answer your question?
lightsavour out

sincere heart, did u actually ask a question   ..... or more likely.... did u ask me something out of context that I cannot discern what it is?
im not against you disagreeing with me, if you can see how i took time to respond to mockingbird then you will see i would have taken time to respond to you too. I wont however, because i feel if you read the whole context of what I have already said in 2 posts you will see these 2 sections you pulled out to make perfect sense.

otherwise,,, what is your question?
lightsavour out

Being gay is completely evil, and if you were to retain that title in any form against the word of God then you would have no right to be in a circle of accountable believers. The same goes for being addicted to a harmful drug that would stumble people, but the two are very different. Homosexuality is a spiritual revolution in itself, and it is angled/pointed from/power sourced by the devil. Being an addict is likewise a chain of the devil, but you dont necessarily have to be of a revolutionary heart against God. Often a drug addict can just be weak within theyre own need for mind stimulation period, whereas a homosexual is basically an atheist to the darkest degree. They not only dont believe in God, but they procreate darkness through they're bodies. It is completely unacceptable for a believer to be doing it, for a church to back the practice, or for a person to preach that we should accept the diversity of humans in a new way.

I know you weren't saying that we should accept the gay practice mockingbird, but I felt it necessary to clarify just how downright evil the whole thing is. These churches that accept gays openly are not only wrong, but they are circles of false prophets. And with all the true need us true believers would be able to acknowledge in theyre assemblies we should all be able to see just how diabolical the movement is. It daily twists the lives of its followers in a way that many will never give themselves a chance to come back from.

I agree that God can save anyone. But I simply see this issue to be more than just an issue, but a religion in itself, that is run by the worlds revolutionists. They are in the media fully, in politics, schools, now churches... and theyre purpose is to drive roadblock into the heart of Christians children who are still potentially sexually confused themselves. This doesn't mean God cannot turn the whole generation around, God can do anything, but in reality if God doesn't do that, then whats happening is the social framework of Gays/whoring to be the base drive of our whole culture.

And I agree wholeheartedly that love is the conqueror of all. We need to genuinely love the souls of all gays, and that is our only hope to not be tainted by this moral demise of our societies that grows worse every day.

God bless you all in your lives of love
lightsavour

No offence taken "mockingbird" I hope your not mocking me though lol jk
anyways, if you take my whole post into context rather than just one point you will see what I am saying. I am referring to the humanistic thinking that we have/will have for all of time. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop the flesh from thinking base thoughts, we are not God, and we will not be God ever, even in Heaven when we are one with Him. My point was about thoughts or complaining against something base, not against people or important situations. There is most deffinately a difference, and in regards to all the many things we can still enjoy doing in life (media, sports, being artists) there are many small situations where our base ingenuity thinks about spirituality in a "too common" way. I am only trying to encourage people not be harsh against themselves for thinking many small complaints during every day, and to focus all energy on being spotless in judging/complaining about people/important situations... and when God blesses you to be thus, then you will also have much more peace to carry into your extracurricular enjoyments in life.

im not talking about something new your allowed to do, that the bible in fact says you shouldn't. Im referring to our present humanity and how it is reflected in the verse dealing with a mote/beam. If you are consumed with small judgements/complaints that perhaps NO ONE will ever hear... then it can still be a beam... i agree. But so can just 1 seemingly small jugdement/complaint about a person/important situation in fact be a beam. It is how you have to look at things. It is a mote to complain about something small that doesn't really matter, because it does matter, but its small.... right? But judging another person IS ALWAYS a beam, which is really the point of the verse I said. If you have a mote then be happy to do spiritual work to have it be gone from you, rather than fear that having a mote is pure evil... because being weak is not something to fear, but something to admit and move on forward from. None of us are perfect, and this is the forumla to not overdose on any form of judging/complaining....  I hope im not being misinterpreted indeed, because then people would think I was saying to strive to have a mote. NO NO... but as a young (in age) Christian, i can tell you that we can appreciate life in so many ways, there needs to be a formula of true spirituality where you know how to deal with your own thought based misgivings. It is the forumla of keeping your complaints to yourself through prayer/confession

Do you agree mockingbird?
lightsavour out

LoL, yeah it wasnt really clear was it. Well I didnt realize that Jesus was the word/Creator from the beginning/before beginning until recently... so I was kind of stating/asking it. I guess I wanted to see if we were all in agreeance that Adam walked with the Lord Jesus, before Jesus was called Jesus, before Jesus was a man.
So you agree right?
ciao
lights out

ggamble, amen and HALLELUJIA!!!!!!!!!!!!! dude, your post almost is bringing me to tears. there were parts in it where u outrightly said i was wrong, and that im fighting Gods final answer... and I just wanted to write back that you weren't answering my questions.
now i want to cry. thank you dreamweaver as well. but ggamble, God really used you tonight, so I hope you actually prayed for me. I feel your prayers, and I feel Gods hand calming my brain (a brain that still feels the poison)

I needed you guys these past 2 days. i didnt even know why i was bringing the whole thing up again, i thought when i quit that i had repented and had it resolved. I see now I hadn't, not until I got part way through your post and realized that I had to make a choice what I was going to hear from you. I had to choose to be angry for you not commenting on my verses, or to see that God showed you to care more about me than the foolish question I had arrived at yet again for the 10th time in my life
by the way, i did not get high 10 times. rather ive probably smoked 10,000 joints since I got saved 6 yrs ago. ive done worse drugs too, and you can be sure your post is being written down in heaven for eternal reward.

I embrace you as a brother in Christ. you were my elder tonight my friend
God bless you for always, and I look forward to talking again.
i think I will have new zeal like i havent in a long time now... i cant keep asking this silly question... and I have to admit now that dreamweavers post was Gods purpose to begin with. as soon as I saw it I thought vainly that I could add great wisdom to it. How vain of me, my words could have been so dark. Im happy now to be an example of needing correction and getting it... i think sometimes my life is like a guinea pig for others to learn off of because I try to be so wise even when im weak.,.... it always makes me show up as vain as I really am.... and then I pray Gods hand is seen as well... because I surely did not expect this thread to get to this point.

GOD BLESS YOU ALL