SonofAslan,

Forgive me, are you saying  "Believe, Repent, and be Baptized"

is the "work"??

Isn't Peter saying it in Acts 2:11-47?

Ollie,

Right, I am just asking if this is the work that he views as being the work necessary for salvation, since you are here, let me ask you;

How does this tie in with James 2, or Mat 25, since, since according to Peter, this is what needs to be done and it is given to understand that James is already speaking of one who claims to have the faith, which brought about what Peter states, must be done?

Mat 25, are altogether different works?  Wouldn't you say?


Blessings,  

Petro

I just want one of you guys to tell me what you do with James and all these other passages. I have been posting these Scriptures for several  days now, and I'm getting frustrated. I will be MORE than happy to answer ANY question you have directly and simply Petro, but FIRST, I want ONE, just ONE, of you people who think we do nothing at all to tell me how you deal with all these Scriptures.


James says, and I quote, "You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only."

I want to know how YOU reconcile this with your claims that we must do nothing at all. Then I will tell you what you must DO to be saved. (That was a hint,  btw.)



Whew......sorry about that.  

SonofAslan,

Forgive me, are you saying  "Believe, Repent, and be Baptized"

is the "work"??

posted by sonofaslan, above;

Petro, but FIRST, I want ONE, just ONE, of you people who think we do nothing at all to tell me how you deal with all these Scriptures

We deall with the scriptures the same way you should, by carefull study and consideration of what the Spirit teaches, concerning this matter;

Now, the subject here is;  "works" and "what work man performs necessary together with "faith" which causes God to justify a man.

Lets begin by posting the passage in scripturem at James 2, which deals with the question you have raised;

James 2
 10  For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11  For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12  So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13  For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath showed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14  What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15  If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16  And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17  Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18  Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
19  Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20  But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21  Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23  And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25  Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26  For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Let me stop right here, hold your thoughts, my neighbor just came over and he has a problem, I will be back to you, ASAP.

Petro


My neighbors car won't start, he  needs a ride to work, he need to be at work within 1 hr, and with the traffic, we need to get on the road now I will get back to you, later.

Sorry, Petro

I wholly agree with what you have posted.

The reason you disagree with "fatalism", is because you see "free will" as being the natural mans ticket to stopping the world, so he can get off at will.

The problem with that is, the ticket he holds is a oneway trip to eternity out of the presence of God, unless God intervenes in that man's life to "draw him, to Christ".

Free will, cannot draw him, anywhere but, further from God and the things of God, because all he can ever do is work himself into righteousness, which are as filthy wrags, before God.

1 Cor 2
14  But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


I think you know this..


Petro

SonofAslan,

You are getting ahead of it all, here..

Grace produces Faith, and it is free, according oto Eph 2:8-9.

At what point then is a person justified?

The manner in which you asked the question;

Why does James tell us we are justified by works?

together with the others,

leads any reader to assume you know the answer, or that you are seeking for an answer you already know to be true.

This is why I asked you;

What work must one do to be justified?

I will be happy to answer your question, and will do so, in my next post, to you.

But please tell just answer the question I have asked, since no one, in over 300 times I have asked this question of Christians has anyone given me a response, And i only ask you so that after, I give you the biblical response to how we understand these scriptures, you won't say, I knew that.

The bible answers this question, specifically, and I will give you all the scriptures you need to know the truth concerning this matter.

In reading the account of the sheep and the goats superficially, it appears that the sheep were justified by their works, but the fact is when one studies this passage of scripture closely, there works were a result of the justification by faith, so that their work was not counted towards their justification, it was a result of them being justified.

In the vernacular, they were noble much the same way sheep are noble when compared to goats, because they were sheep and not goats.

Petro  

["openness or determinism." but;Fate vs Freedom, here...........Petro]

So you don't believe we have free will? Did you choose to type what you posted or not? So you believe God sends people to hell arbitrarily based upon His whim? So in what sense is God loving?

There are more options than simply openness or determinism. Both are heretical.

SonofgAslan,

Unfortunately, we are not speaking of "openness or determinism."   but;

Fate vs Freedom,  here...........


Petro

SonofAslan

No this is my first read on this thread, but if you will direct me to where you wrote the answer to such a question, I will gladly read it.

Ptero

SonofAslan,

Why does James tell us we are justified by works?

What work must one do to be justified?

I have asked many people this question and no one has been able to answer it.

I ask you, what work must you do to be justified by God.

And please don't tell me you must die a martyr, in some jihad.

Awaiting your response.

Petro

[And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.]

Reply #58 posted by pnotc    

posted by petro
" yet, you seem to ignore the commandments of the Captain of the Army of God (Jesus), who made the battle plan when He appeared before Joshua, actually, you ignore Him, because you are unable to discern the Lord.."

And you are clearly unable to discern his Word since I showed that the Captain of the Hosts of the Lord is not the Lord of Hosts. To back up your argument, all you said was that a whole lot of commentators agreed with you, and then refused to provide a reference to any of those commentaries. A reliance upon those commentaries would also be a reliance on the traditions of men, which you reject. At least, you reject them when they don't agree with you.

pnotc,

I don't have to quote commentaries, the scriptures themselves are sufficient to prove the written word true.
The fact is, you showed nothing, it is evident to any reader of this passage, that the Commander of the Hosts of the Lord, is not the Lord of Hosts, you simply cannot see that the vision of Joshua not that of a mere angel at all, but was that of Jesus as The Angel of Jehovah..

Your vision is blurred, because you seek to worship, angels and saints.

Conclusive proof that it  was the Lord Jesus in one of His preincarnate appearances is found in verse 14 and 15.

Joshua 5
14  And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?
15  And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

These same words I have italicized are  written in the account where Jehovah appeared unto Moses in Exodus 3.  

And then Jehovah goes on to say to Moses, I am that I am, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. when commissioning Moses to bring His people from bondage in Egypt.

Jesus said,  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (Jhn 8:58; and then they took up stones  to cast at Him (vs 59),  and again, Jesus said;
color=Red] I that speak unto thee am he.[/color]  Jhn 4:26.

Nowhere in scripture does a mere angel ever accept worship, but here the Angel of the Lord commands worship, thereby proving His divine nature.

The Host of the Lord, which Jesus came to command was not that of angels, but  the armies of children of Israel, whom Jehovah had brought out of bondage to the house of Egypt, and  have at this passage in Joshua,  now come about to enter the promised land after 40 years of wonderings in the desert, and begin the campaign of releiving the inhabitants of the land given to Abraham by God.

So, these verses leave you with no grounds for believing angels can be worshipped.

It never ceases to amaze me the pious excuses idolaters use to excuse the things they do, contrary to the word of God.  

Using their misunderstanding of passages like this one, claiming that angels may be worshipped, because Joshua worshipped an angel, justifies, praying/worshipping saints, and asking thru them intercessory prayers.  

They are used to better worship God, according to their claims, this is a lame excuse.  

Your understanding of this passage of scripture, springboards you into, a wresting of the scriptures to your own damnation, you call them tradition, and you are accurate at least herein, they are the traditions of men.

As for your credentials, what good are they if you, worship God not in accordance to His known will , and encourage other to do likewise;

This what secularism and the teaching produces in wannabe christians; I simply am not impressed..

Later

Petro

[ordained]

What had been settled by councils many centuries ago, now is resurfacing as a old heretical teaching, packaged in a new box.

http://www.wwrn.org/parse.php?idd=7503

This is where, the issues surrounding the Sovereignty of God vs the free will of man lead to,  now God, is simply a spectator, and can do nothing, since He does not know how future events will be shaped by mans "free will" decisions.

A few excerts from this article, Christians should be aware of;


"On the other side are scholars such as Clark H. Pinnock and R. William Hasker, proponents of a viewpoint called open theism. For them, the future is somewhat open. God elects to give people free will and therefore cannot know everything that will happen in the future, they maintain."

"We say, yes, God has the power but He gives room for human and creaturely freedom. God's sovereignty is general over the world, but not meticulous," said Pinnock, a professor of theology at McMaster Divinity College in Hamilton, Ontario. "God wants free creatures to have some say."

"Pinnock and his co-writers argue that God has goals - not endless, predetermined outcomes - and can't know everything if He lets creatures choose alternatives that can affect the future. They cite various scripture for support, such as God's statement after Abraham showed willingness to sacrifice Isaac: " ... now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son" (Gen. 22:12)."

"In open theism, God "is not independent. He's now dependent. He doesn't know everything, just a few things. He's subject to the processes of time instead of transcending time," Oliphint said."
.



The troubling issue with this viewpoint, is ultimately, Who is it, that saves? God or man?

Was is it not Gods ? ; "predeterminate council that Jesus as Savior be, the judge of the "quick and the dead"? (Acts 10:42); was it not Gods determinate council and foreknowledge to "deliver" Jesus into wicked men, whose wicked hands crucified and slain Him? (Acts 2:23)

Was it because God didn't know, they would kill him? (Isa 53)
The scripture is crystal clear that "they took counsel together for to put him to death." (Jhn 11:54)

I guess God, couldn't have known this?  However, how is it the word tells us, He mediated the crucifixcion of Jesus before hand.

Note the following scripture;

1 Cor 2
7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8  Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Error, leads to error and distorts, the way man sees God.

If it is true, all are dead in sin, and because God elects a few by His mercy and grace for His own Glory, how is men can teach their actions, are the result of their own will?

Free will, and belief in this teaching, not only distorts man's view of God, but it puffs him up and emphacises his work, as opposed to Gods free grace..

God Bless,
Petro

[Let him that is taught in the word]

posted by asaph as reply #48
My observation:
What did Jesus mean by this:
John 6
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Asaph
Are you a Universalist?

I am not a Universalist. All will be taught but only those who hear and learn will come to Jesus.

asaph

Asaph,

Being taught, doesn't end when one comes to Christ, for it is the Holy Spirit that continues to lead and teach, all believers. True, it is that there are; teachers in the the church, but, like the bereans which were more honorable than those from Thessalonica, all believers are to;

"receive the word with all readiness of mind, and search the scriptures daily, whether those things be so."  This is the way, we can prove all things, whether they be of God.

Of course the title to this thread is why I make these points.

Consider this passages;

Gal 6  
6:1  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
2  Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
3  For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
4  But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
5  For every man shall bear his own burden.
6  Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.


  Is this only speaking of pastors or preachers??   The answer is NO, this is speaking of all believers..

At John 6:45, Jesus specifically states, that only those who have been taught by the Father "cometh to me"

But, is this the end of the teaching of the doctrines of God??, nay,.......

Isa 28
9  Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

Consider what Jesus said at;

Jhn 7
16  ......, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
17  If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Was not the Apostles DOCTRINE, the same as taught to them by our Savior??  Absolutely..consider (Acts2:42,Rom 6:17, 2Jhn 1:9-10)

They certainly believed and taught the eternal security of the believer

Jesus also, said;
Jhn 14
24  He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25  These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.


And then John wrote these words for our exhortation;

1 Jhn 2
26  These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Taught of God, are all those who have his Spirit within them, and are lead by Him.

One could claim to possess the Spirit, but in denying what the Spirit teaches, could very well, call into question whether the perosn possess the Spirit, for to deny the very words of the Savior himself to to show a lack of a proper understanding of the Word of God, or a lack of the inward witness of the Spirit.

Christians begin their walk with the Lord by faith and live by faith, so that it is by faith unto faith, not faith unto works.

Blessings,

Petro

Reply #15 posted by  lightsaviour

Sorry I could not wait Petro. I do not claim to have seen the church that the Lord Jesus planted, I HAVE seen it, and do see it bi-weekly. You cannot even know of what I speak if you have no faith that our Lord has a people gathered together in exact accordance to God's desire. If your faith does not stretch this far, then my talking with you is as talking against the wall. I speak of the commandments from the Bible. I speak of the will of God desiring those who are genuine to be gathered together in remembrance. I have said nothing beyond this, yet you continue to haggle me as if I have spoken wrongly.

Show me my error if I have spoken wrongly of Gods divine planting of assemblies. You have not offered scriptures to me on your feeble understandings of the father as one filled with the accountability of an entire assembly that God plants. God only plants the seed of a circle of believers with the means of correction/teaching/discipline. God plants an assembly of believers with the elder(s) first. This is not something I speak of as concerning a paper I would order online. No my dear friend, God's divine hand raises an elder from a disciple. One who is the representation of Gods government in an assembly. This is not a light thing in no manner of speaking.

Correction is something that can be taught, as Paul did with many of the New Testament assemblies. However, Paul mentions many times about the removal of false teachers, and he always tells the assemblies/churches to do it. He is telling them to listen to the Holy Spirit and be the discerning voice that writes a person out of the circle. Paul cannot tell anyone in any assembly what to do, because he is just an Apostle. Not just, but in regards to an assembly, he can only teach, he cannot discipline, he has no part in the governance of an assembly. You must see the need for accountability, I dont know why you are avoiding my questions with roundabout comments, trying to make my points seem as childish things in the night.

I will remain with this question until you bring me evidence otherwise, or until you see what God commands from an assembly/church.

God bless.

lightsavior,

Picking back up where we left it,

As I have stated before, you seem to emphasize the physical above the spiritual, and this is why;

You cannot accept the scriptures I have given you, already.

Correction is something that can be taught, as Paul did with many of the New Testament assemblies.

You are stuck on what you see, and emphasize, visible   "church"

In the frist place, I am not your teacher; and, There  is nothing I can teach you, and unless you, allow the Spirit to teach you, you will remain unteachable,  the word is there for you to receive by faith,

What you are unable to see, I see plainly.

Show me my error if I have spoken wrongly of Gods divine planting of assemblies.

Allow me to correct you, in this instance, God never planted assemblies, the church is universal, and only one body, whosoever belongs to the body, has liberty, and worships God in the Spirit, not according to your understanding, and specifically in your way.

Each member of the body possess a gift divinely given according to the will of the Holy Spirit, and they are specifically given for the edification of the body, for exhortation, teaching and growing in grace that the man of God, be perfectly equipped unto all good works.

This just like what you were unable to see, the first encounter we had, when you accused Jason, of being loose with the word, and taking lightly the things of God, worship of God, is not being a legalist an saying, it can only be done this way, and it is only the correct way.  What you apparently see as the only way, to worship, in a formal setting, with an ordained minister, elders, and some structured service, is not what is in view here, as I have explained it.

A family group, with a Father as leader, can hold worship services honoring God and worshipping Him, in Spirit and Truth.

Blessings,

Petro

[ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God]

Continuation  of my previous post to Ollie..

So recognizing that one must believe and be baptized in order to be saved, we Christians, desire to be baptized in water after we have believed, understanding the to be baptized while in unbelief is a useless act of futility since, Jesus  said :  

" He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."  (Mk16:16)

Mat 28
18  And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.  
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20   Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.  Amen.

Verse 19, above at the word "baptizing", speaks of the a ceremonial ablution ordinance   instituted by the Lord himself, to baptize, to wash, to make whelmed, ie:fully wet, to the name of;Father , Son, and Holy Gohst.

Now this begs the question;

When is this to be done; when they become believers?, or while yet in unbelief?

The answer is found in the same verse, since it is obvious not all nations or peoples, will be taught, or allow themselves to be baptized, so, that the answer is;   "while yet in unbelief".

So, refer to Mk 16:16, which baptisim is in view here??,

Certainly not water baptism, as they have already been baptized in water them that are baptized with the Holy Gohst, whom John spoke of, and the baptism spoke of in Mk 16:16, is the baptism of the Holy Gohst.

So, you ask what good is water baptism?  

It serves to identify those who (just like those of the OT who came to be baptized for repentance for the remission of sins) have a need (desire) to counted among them that want to be cleasned from sin, recognizing and confessing publicly that they are sinners and need to be washed clean by God word, and it is received as an act of Gods mercy and grace, by faith, that their sins are forgiven, and God who knows the heart, baptizes those who believe, having given to them the gift of faith.

Your second question was;

Would you explain it with scripture references?

To expain it, I would have to reiterate what has already been said.

Here is the verse;

Col 2
10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14  Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15  And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Consider these carefully, all this is by faith, and faith, is the gift of God (Eph 2:8-9) given by His Grace, to them He has elected.

It is a mystery, and it ruffles the feathers of all, who don't want God to be sovereign, especially those who want to have a hand in their own salvation.

Now, there are those who, baptize (sprinkle) infants in water, is this necessary??

The bible is silent, concerning this, in my opinion;

A believeing father and mother, could dedicate their child to the Lord, instead of baptizing it, since it is the believing parent/s that sanctify the child (1 Cor 7:14) many believe this means that they are saved, but not so, it simply means they are set apart, for receiving the truth, but,  nowhere will anyone, find that it is necessary to baptize a child, this is an old teaching, introduced by tradition, and has no redeeming value whatsoever, since it is the person who, by his own desire and volition willfully excersices the act of wanting to be baptized in water or, not, and, it has to do with whether one believes God or not,  infants aren't even aware what is going on around them, let alone believe anything..

In this age of great deception, I believe that water baptism is better served by performing it to them that have come to faith in Jesus, and have publicly confessed him as Lord and Savior, with their own mouth thru their own words (consider Rom 10:10), in order that others, including them that confess Jesus, will knowingly understand that water baptism is an opportunity for the Christian to publicly identify themselves with the triune Godhead.

They acknowledge that God is their Father, that Jesus is Christ is their Lord and Savior, and that the Holy Spirit in the One who indwells and empowers, and teaches them.

But this isn't taught in churches today, most people that are baptized simply know that they are obediently following a churches ordinance, so their faith then is  focused in their act of water baptism and being a member of a church, this is why, they can state;

Baptism is necessary for Salvation, (water immersed) ..

and when presssed for an answer, will testify, it really isn't...

Blessings,

Petro

[justified God]

Reply #45 posted by Ollie
It was not necessary to provide all this information since as you stated you have done it previously.
However I have learned that you misunderstand my position on the Holy Spirit being received.
I do not believe one receives the Holy Spirit during water baptism.

All that was necessary to answer my question was your last paragraph. However you provided no scripture to substantiate it is of God. I asked for Bible references also.

Ollies question:

Petro,

What do scriptures teach that baptism with water is for?

Would you explain it with scripture references?

Thanks,
Ollie


Petro's answer to Ollie's question:

Now what good is Water Baptism, well for one, the significance is not as evident today as it was then, but it is an out ward testimony of an inward need, of being cleansed from sin, washed, but it one of obedience to a command given by the Lord himself, signifying faith in Him, it is the same today as it was then, it identifies you with the risen savior, get baptized, and there is no doubt in the minds of the people that hear about it, in whom you have placed your faith.

Where is the scripture?

Ollie,

Lets take it from the beginning again..

The scriptures tell us, Abraham was declared righteous by God and God promised to establish an everlasting covenant with his son Isaac, God then went on to give Abraham the sign of circumcision as the token of this Covenant.

The OT was sealed in blood, and the sign that the children of God, wore on their bodies was the sign of circumscision; When God made the Old Covenant with Abraham, He said;

Gen 17
9  And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10  This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11  And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12  And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

This them was the sign or token of this Covenant; between Abraham and God; and everyone who was circumcised acknowledged that he was a follower of the God of Abraham and a keeper of this Covenant.  Read, Romans 4.

And way over in the book of John, Jesus tells us ;

Jhn 8
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.


John reveals to us, that Abraham understood that God would save His people from their sins, by providing himself a sacrifice, as the lamb which God provided, in the day He tested Abraham (Gen 22), and raise Him (Jesus, the Lamb of God) from death for his (Abraham's) own justification. This is what Paul tells us at Hebrews 11:17-19.

 Now, the NT also was ratified with blood (the Lord's); the sign Christians received is that of baptism.

You ask;

What do scriptures teach that baptism with water is for?  

The Water baptism, (of John) was one of repentance for the remission of sins, (Mk 1:1,Lk 3:3); it never changed, Jesus asked;

The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? (Jhn 21:25)

, John, himself  testifies, it was ordained to him from the One who sent him to baptize in water, (John 1:33), that Jesus might be made manifest to the nation of Israel.

And in Like 7, there is this little passage of scripture, which says this;

29  And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30  But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.
31  And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?  
32   They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept.  
33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil.
34   The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!  
35   But wisdom is justified of all her children.

Note carefully, verse 29, Does anyone justify God?  NO!
It is the other way around, God is the one that Justifies; so what does it mean in this verse that God is justified?
Simply this, the Son of Man came ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners (vs 34) that is, He identified himself with those whom He came to bless. And these religious leaders were not happy either way, they accused John of  having a devil (he came neither eating bread nor drinking wine), while accusing Jesus of being a glutton and a winebibber, because He ate and drank vs 34.

And yet at verse 35, Wisdom, represented by the Savior himself is justified by Gods children who, are they that justify God's Wisdom, in obeying the call, to repent, and be baptized.

So, then all who admit to being sinners in need of forgiveness of sin, justify the word which condemns sinners, in other words they by agreeing with it, justify it to be just and true.

At the baptism of John, all were baptized, while not yet having believed in Jesus, even the Apostles, were all baptized, before they came to faith in Him, and they baptized with water before the Lord had risen (Jhn 4:1-2).

Now, the point Pastor Tom and  mardis have made, was that water baptism, was necessary for salvation, while confessing that water baptism itself does not save, they state that it (water baptism) and baptism with the Holy Spirit is one in the same, however it is plain that if this was so, John would not have spoke of another baptism (Jhn 1:31-33),and them Jesus spoke of another baptism when he spoke to the Apostles, concerning His baptism which He was going to be baptized with, (after being water baptized already by John the Baptist) (Mat 20:22-23)                  

So to answer your question;  

Water baptism serves to identify every person who believes in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus, for the sins of sinners.  

In other words, "He died for me, and I want the world to Know this."


Continued...................sorry it is so long..

[He is PRECIOUS]

In the end Jesus is;

The Creator God, Redeemer, Savior, Judge of everyone who believes or does not believe Him.

He is the stone which the builder's rejected and has become the head of the corner.

And unto us who have trusted and believed Him, He is PRECIOUS

God Bless,


Petro

[Who is Jesus?]

To the question;   Who is Jesus?

In the OT Isaiah reveals Him, as the "Lord of Hosts", the "King", "The Holy One of Israel", The Prophet Zecariah, concerning "this Lord of Host" says,  will will rule as "King over all the earth, in that day"

The Book of Revelation reveals Him, as, "The Alpha and the Omega", of the OT,  the "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

He Jesus, says; He will be God  to all them that overcome.

Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

And again He says, to them that have an ear to hear;

All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and He to whom the Son will reveal  him.


Blessings,

Petro