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"NO MORE TITHING"


The paying of a 10% tithe is first mentioned in Gen 14:17-20, where (Gentile) Abraham "GAVE A TENTH OF THE SPOILS OF WAR to Melchizedec; i.e., Christ, in angelic form. See Heb 7:1,2. THAT was (not) the 10% "Jewish income tax", later collected from eleven Jewish tribes of Israel, to support the one Levitical tribe of Israel.

The Jewish Nation of Israel was not "created" until Mt Sinai, Ex 19:1-8; and was there formed from the well over 600,000 (Gentile) descendants of Jacob (Israel), during their 430 years of Egyptian captivity; Ex 12:37,38. All of those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls came from the original twelve (Gentile) sons of (Gentile) Israel. At Mt Sinai those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls entered into The Old Testament Covenant of Law with God. And in order "to administer" it's well over 660 commandments, judgments, and ordinances, God created The Levitical Priesthood out of one of those twelve sons of Israel; i.e., out of The Tribe of Levi.

Inasmuch as those Levites were required to devote their entire daily lives to the care and conduct of the Jewish Tabernacle, they were not given any portion of The Holy Land, so they could also support themselves. Therefore, it became necessary for the other eleven tribes of Israel "to fully support" the one tribe of Priestly Levites, Num 18:21. Thus, "the 10% Jewish income tax".

Nowhere in biblical history was anyone else ever "ordained" to collect the foregoing 10% tithe, except the Priestly tribe of Levites; e.g., Heb 7:5. This they did "ACCORDING TO THE (strictly Jewish) OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES"! That this was indeed "A JEWISH ORDINANCE", is plainly so stated in Mal 3:7-10. And that (all) such "JEWISH ORDINANCES" were completely "BLOTTED OUT" dejure, at Calvary, is also plainly so stated in Eph 2:14,15, Col 2:14, Heb 9:1-10.

No Gentile, of ANY dispensational period, was ever placed (by God) "under" the Old Testament Letter-of-the-Law-of-Moses. See Rom 2:14, Deut 4:1-8, Deut 5:1-4, Ps 147:19,20, Acts Ch 15. Nor should one permit any so called "religious organization" to place them under the foregoing Law of Moses, to collect an undispensational Jewish tithe; nor for any other such (undispensational reason(s).

"THE JEWISH STOREHOUSE", "THE JEWISH LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD", and "THE JEWISH ORDINANCES OF DIVINE SERVICE" no longer exist. They were (all) "BLOTTED OUT" at Calvary. Hebrews Ch 9 states that very thing! One would thus no longer receive any spiritual brownie points, for paying a 10% Jewish tithe that no longer exists.

No. One need not continue to "support" any Jewish tabernacle, nor it's multiple Priestly Tribe of Levi, nor it's Ordinances of Divine Service, that no longer exist.
We, of this dispensation of Grace, were never placed "UNDER THE LAW", Rom 6:14; but (we) of The Mysterious Churcè of Epè 3:1-10, are solely "UNDER GRACE".

So. Inasmuch as there is (now) "ONLY ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN", 1 Tim 2:5, there remains no further "need to support" any other human mediator(s) --nor ANY of their present day, undispensational, religious storehouses..

Most, if not all, of the well over 12,000 (undispensational) churches in existence today could not continue to (operate), if they did not collect an (un-dispensational) tithe, from their "unquestioning members"! But in order to do so, there is a (regularly scheduled) forceful preaching of the following (abolished) Jewish Ordinance.

Mal 3:7-10 "EVEN FROM THE DAYS OF YOUR FATHERS YE ARE GONE AWAY FROM MINE (ORDINANCES), AND HAVE NOT KEPT THEM. RETURN UNTO ME, AND I WILL RETURN UNTO YOU, SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS. BUT YE SAY, WHEREIN SHALL WE RETURN?
WILL A MAN ROB GOD? YET YE HAVE ROBBED ME. BUT YE SAY. WHEREIN HAVE WE ROBBED THEE? IN TITHES AND OFFERINGS. YE ARE CURSED WITH A CURSE, FOR YE HAVE ROBBED ME, EVEN THIS WHOLE NATION (i.e. Israel). BRING YE ALL THE TITHES INTO THE JEWISH STOREHOUSE THAT THERE MAY BE MEAT IN MY HOUSE. AND PROVE ME NOW HEREWITH SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS. IF I WILL NOT OPEN THE WINDOWS OF HEAVEN, AND POUR YOU OUT A BLESSING THAT THERE SHALL NOT BE ROOM ENOUGH TO RECEIVE IT".

Having been subjected to the foregoing (regularly scheduled, highly emotional sermon, and having been accused of "ROBBING GOD" of His tithes and offerings), it is little wonder "that the scripturally uninformed" make an oftentimes very sacrificial effort to bring their tithes and offerings into the "denominational "storehouses!

The foregoing (undispensational),"monetary arm twisting" not only serves to relieve the members conscience on the matter, but tends to produce some special benefits for those whom "the clergy" knows as "tithers", as follows:

(1). Such usually assures "the tither" of the pastors vocal gratitude, and perhaps a place in the pastor's inner circle of "pet" parishioners.

(2). Then, there is always "the promised windfall" from a grateful Creator, who really "needs the money", and who has promised to pay it back "with compounded interest"!. And if you couldn't trust a grateful God with such a temporary loan.. Who could you trust?

And even "when confronted" with the devious ways those "tithes" are collected and misappropriated for their personal use by charlatan preachers, there are a multitude of those who reply, "I am not giving my tithes and offerings to so and so--but to God". But as it states in Acts 8:20 "PETER SAID UNTO HIM. THY MONEY PERISH WITH THEE. BECAUSE THOU HAST THOUGHT THAT THE GIFT OF GOD MAY BE PURCHASED WITH MONEY". No, one cannot "buy God's favour", with tithes and offerings! And believe it or not, God does not ever "need" your tithes and offerings; e.g., Ps 50:10-12 "FOR EVERY BEAST OF THE FOREST IS MINE, AND THE CATTLE UPON A THOUSAND HILLS. IF I WERE HUNGRY I WOULD NOT TELL THEE. FOR THE WORLD IS MINE AND THE FULNESS THEREOF".

So, before one should even consider the paying of tithes and offerings today to some unscriptural, undispensational, self appointed mediator(s), at the very least, make sure that the undispensational preacher or priest collecting it is a biological Jewish son of Levi, and a member of the Levitical Priesthood. Why so? Because no others in biblical history were ever authorized to collect such tithes and offerings; e.g., Heb 7:5,8,9, Num 18:20-24, Lev 27:30,32, Neh 10:37. Any other "collectors" thereafter would be "unauthorized collectors". It also states: "THAT CHRIST JESUS, NO LONGER DWELLS IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS"; e.g., Heb 9:24, Acts 17:24,25. So why should anyone "attend" any more "building worship", much less (support) it's undispensational operations, with tithes and offerings???

The duplicity of modern day (undispensational) clergymen should be quite obvious to all who care enough to note that these clergymen assure their members they are not now "under the law, but under Grace", for so we are. Rom 6:14, Rom 2:14. But then, (on tithe preaching Sunday) they will (temporarily) place these same members "back under" the Jewish Law of Moses of Mal 3:7-10, long enough to (undispensationally) collect the strictly Jewish 10% income tax, of Mal 3:7-10.

And most, if not all of them, "know" what they are (undispensationally) doing! i.e., that they are deceitfully handling the word of God--for monetary reasons.

"IN SUMMATION"

(1). The Gentiles paid a ten percent tithe "of the spoils of war".
(2). The Jews paid a ten percent tithe of their personal income, "as a Jewish Income Tax", to support the Jewish Levitical Priesthood.
(3). Our Church, of The Mystery of Eph 3:1-10, pays neither.

Harry Wellington



Harryw@cybertrails.com
Box 1,Pine,Az,85544
1-928-476-3513

I will let God be the judge .

God Bless.

******
Submission! I like that.  :) :)(John here)

Yet, the Word teaches that one can rob God in [both tithes & offerings]. Let me give a different slant as to what one hear's from behind the pulpit, ok?

That of Robbing God? Rev. 18:4 talks of HIS PEOPLE making the DECISION of Eternal Life or Eternal death! The reason that it is so important is that they BECOME PARTAKERS OF THEIR OPEN SINS if they stay Yoked in their membership. Now comes the QUESTION: Because Christ is not in the Great Whore or her Harlot Daughters congregations, how could ANYONE support her in tithes or offerings? For this TRUELY WOULD BE ROBBING GOD!

But, yes that is & was the plan of God! The Workman is worthy of his hire. And the Tithes belong to God alone as well as one day in seven belongs to Him! The Day that He set aside and BLESSED FOR HOLY USE! The Seventh Day Sabbath.

---John

Hello JTB,

You've used one of your favorite descriptions again. Please do give us a list of the congregations and denominations that are part of the "Great Whore and her Harlot Daughters", and give us a separate list of the congregations and denominations you approve of. If you don't have enough room to list the ones you don't like, just give us the ones you do like or the ones that Ellen G. White formed and proclaimed. I can only assume that the approval list would be very short.

Just curious JTB, are you the one and only pastor who preaches the truth? If so, which version of the EGW do you use? I bet she would be angry to find out how many times her holy egw was cut up, deleted, changed, and added to.

JTB,

I won't bother quoting any of your last post. I didn't think you would answer my question. Further, I have a complete copy of your entire library site, and you claim to be Adventist by Profession. Does that mean Pastor? Your site was just about nothing but Ellen G. White. I can quote it any time you wish. Didn't she die in the 1800's and leave a considerable pile of embarrassing prophecy and literature. Was there something about 1844 and I'll use your favorite phrases, "A bunch of hog-wash and pig slop?

Are you saying now that you denounce your master, Ellen G. White? Further, I could care less about the money you raised for whatever EGW wants done with it. If you hadn't heard, she did die, and she didn't arise from the dead. Do you still sell snake oil?

I go to a church building with an address for a name, but I belong to the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. My CHURCH had a good year, but all of the GLORY GOES TO CHRIST.

Here's the phrase you hate to hear.

YES, I AM IN CHRIST.

*********
Sure you are, huh!  :'(
"He that sayeth that he [knoweth Him] and [keepeth not HIS COMMANDMENTS IS A LIAR AND THE *TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.]"
1 Jn. 2:4

---John

And God Bless you

"NO MORE TITHING"


The paying of a 10% tithe is first mentioned in Gen 14:17-20, where (Gentile) Abraham "GAVE A TENTH OF THE SPOILS OF WAR to Melchizedec; i.e., Christ, in angelic form. See Heb 7:1,2. THAT was (not) the 10% "Jewish income tax", later collected from eleven Jewish tribes of Israel, to support the one Levitical tribe of Israel.

The Jewish Nation of Israel was not "created" until Mt Sinai, Ex 19:1-8; and was there formed from the well over 600,000 (Gentile) descendants of Jacob (Israel), during their 430 years of Egyptian captivity; Ex 12:37,38. All of those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls came from the original twelve (Gentile) sons of (Gentile) Israel. At Mt Sinai those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls entered into The Old Testament Covenant of Law with God. And in order "to administer" it's well over 660 commandments, judgments, and ordinances, God created The Levitical Priesthood out of one of those twelve sons of Israel; i.e., out of The Tribe of Levi.

Inasmuch as those Levites were required to devote their entire daily lives to the care and conduct of the Jewish Tabernacle, they were not given any portion of The Holy Land, so they could also support themselves. Therefore, it became necessary for the other eleven tribes of Israel "to fully support" the one tribe of Priestly Levites, Num 18:21. Thus, "the 10% Jewish income tax".

Nowhere in biblical history was anyone else ever "ordained" to collect the foregoing 10% tithe, except the Priestly tribe of Levites; e.g., Heb 7:5. This they did "ACCORDING TO THE (strictly Jewish) OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES"! That this was indeed "A JEWISH ORDINANCE", is plainly so stated in Mal 3:7-10. And that (all) such "JEWISH ORDINANCES" were completely "BLOTTED OUT" dejure, at Calvary, is also plainly so stated in Eph 2:14,15, Col 2:14, Heb 9:1-10.

No Gentile, of ANY dispensational period, was ever placed (by God) "under" the Old Testament Letter-of-the-Law-of-Moses. See Rom 2:14, Deut 4:1-8, Deut 5:1-4, Ps 147:19,20, Acts Ch 15. Nor should one permit any so called "religious organization" to place them under the foregoing Law of Moses, to collect an undispensational Jewish tithe; nor for any other such (undispensational reason(s).

"THE JEWISH STOREHOUSE", "THE JEWISH LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD", and "THE JEWISH ORDINANCES OF DIVINE SERVICE" no longer exist. They were (all) "BLOTTED OUT" at Calvary. Hebrews Ch 9 states that very thing! One would thus no longer receive any spiritual brownie points, for paying a 10% Jewish tithe that no longer exists.

No. One need not continue to "support" any Jewish tabernacle, nor it's multiple Priestly Tribe of Levi, nor it's Ordinances of Divine Service, that no longer exist.
We, of this dispensation of Grace, were never placed "UNDER THE LAW", Rom 6:14; but (we) of The Mysterious Churcè of Epè 3:1-10, are solely "UNDER GRACE".

So. Inasmuch as there is (now) "ONLY ONE MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND MAN", 1 Tim 2:5, there remains no further "need to support" any other human mediator(s) --nor ANY of their present day, undispensational, religious storehouses..

Most, if not all, of the well over 12,000 (undispensational) churches in existence today could not continue to (operate), if they did not collect an (un-dispensational) tithe, from their "unquestioning members"! But in order to do so, there is a (regularly scheduled) forceful preaching of the following (abolished) Jewish Ordinance.

Mal 3:7-10 "EVEN FROM THE DAYS OF YOUR FATHERS YE ARE GONE AWAY FROM MINE (ORDINANCES), AND HAVE NOT KEPT THEM. RETURN UNTO ME, AND I WILL RETURN UNTO YOU, SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS. BUT YE SAY, WHEREIN SHALL WE RETURN?
WILL A MAN ROB GOD? YET YE HAVE ROBBED ME. BUT YE SAY. WHEREIN HAVE WE ROBBED THEE? IN TITHES AND OFFERINGS. YE ARE CURSED WITH A CURSE, FOR YE HAVE ROBBED ME, EVEN THIS WHOLE NATION (i.e. Israel). BRING YE ALL THE TITHES INTO THE JEWISH STOREHOUSE THAT THERE MAY BE MEAT IN MY HOUSE. AND PROVE ME NOW HEREWITH SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS. IF I WILL NOT OPEN THE WINDOWS OF HEAVEN, AND POUR YOU OUT A BLESSING THAT THERE SHALL NOT BE ROOM ENOUGH TO RECEIVE IT".

Having been subjected to the foregoing (regularly scheduled, highly emotional sermon, and having been accused of "ROBBING GOD" of His tithes and offerings), it is little wonder "that the scripturally uninformed" make an oftentimes very sacrificial effort to bring their tithes and offerings into the "denominational "storehouses!

The foregoing (undispensational),"monetary arm twisting" not only serves to relieve the members conscience on the matter, but tends to produce some special benefits for those whom "the clergy" knows as "tithers", as follows:

(1). Such usually assures "the tither" of the pastors vocal gratitude, and perhaps a place in the pastor's inner circle of "pet" parishioners.

(2). Then, there is always "the promised windfall" from a grateful Creator, who really "needs the money", and who has promised to pay it back "with compounded interest"!. And if you couldn't trust a grateful God with such a temporary loan.. Who could you trust?

And even "when confronted" with the devious ways those "tithes" are collected and misappropriated for their personal use by charlatan preachers, there are a multitude of those who reply, "I am not giving my tithes and offerings to so and so--but to God". But as it states in Acts 8:20 "PETER SAID UNTO HIM. THY MONEY PERISH WITH THEE. BECAUSE THOU HAST THOUGHT THAT THE GIFT OF GOD MAY BE PURCHASED WITH MONEY". No, one cannot "buy God's favour", with tithes and offerings! And believe it or not, God does not ever "need" your tithes and offerings; e.g., Ps 50:10-12 "FOR EVERY BEAST OF THE FOREST IS MINE, AND THE CATTLE UPON A THOUSAND HILLS. IF I WERE HUNGRY I WOULD NOT TELL THEE. FOR THE WORLD IS MINE AND THE FULNESS THEREOF".

So, before one should even consider the paying of tithes and offerings today to some unscriptural, undispensational, self appointed mediator(s), at the very least, make sure that the undispensational preacher or priest collecting it is a biological Jewish son of Levi, and a member of the Levitical Priesthood. Why so? Because no others in biblical history were ever authorized to collect such tithes and offerings; e.g., Heb 7:5,8,9, Num 18:20-24, Lev 27:30,32, Neh 10:37. Any other "collectors" thereafter would be "unauthorized collectors". It also states: "THAT CHRIST JESUS, NO LONGER DWELLS IN TEMPLES MADE WITH HANDS"; e.g., Heb 9:24, Acts 17:24,25. So why should anyone "attend" any more "building worship", much less (support) it's undispensational operations, with tithes and offerings???

The duplicity of modern day (undispensational) clergymen should be quite obvious to all who care enough to note that these clergymen assure their members they are not now "under the law, but under Grace", for so we are. Rom 6:14, Rom 2:14. But then, (on tithe preaching Sunday) they will (temporarily) place these same members "back under" the Jewish Law of Moses of Mal 3:7-10, long enough to (undispensationally) collect the strictly Jewish 10% income tax, of Mal 3:7-10.

And most, if not all of them, "know" what they are (undispensationally) doing! i.e., that they are deceitfully handling the word of God--for monetary reasons.

"IN SUMMATION"

(1). The Gentiles paid a ten percent tithe "of the spoils of war".
(2). The Jews paid a ten percent tithe of their personal income, "as a Jewish Income Tax", to support the Jewish Levitical Priesthood.
(3). Our Church, of The Mystery of Eph 3:1-10, pays neither.

Harry Wellington



Harryw@cybertrails.com
Box 1,Pine,Az,85544
1-928-476-3513

Forum:
Are you a Christian? Remember that there are ACCURATE record books kept in heaven that we ALL will be judged from for the ETERNAL KNOWLEDGE of why we were saved or lost. These can be checked for the REALTRUTH. Eccl. 12:13-14 Rev. 20:12 & Dan. 7:10.

OK: What does this passage say to the REAL SINCERE CHRISTIAN? (we 'see' most all the other postings here so far bring tears!! :'()

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for [ye pay tithe] of mint and anise and cummin, AND HAVE OMITTED THE WEIGHTER MATTERS, *JUDGEMENT, MERCY, and FAITH, [THESE AUGHT YE TO *HAVE DONE, AND NOT LEAVE THE OTHERS UNDONE.]"  Matt. 24:23 A 'REAL' new Born Babe in Christ could not confuse the Masters WORDS here! Only BABYLONIAN garbage could do that it seems!! See 2 Peter 2:19-22.

NO MORE TITHING John Boy, dust off you KJV Bible and read it.

Your Brick Award

(http://www.sirinet.net/~blkidps/jtbbrick.gif)

[If] one is a Christian period! Lifes 'WILL' is given up to Christ!
His paycheck toooo! ---John

"NO MORE TITHING"

Amen

Brother Love :)

LOVE YOUR MONEY, not Christ, huh! :'(  If one LOVES Christ, Christ has BOTH THE MANS WILL & his $$$'s!! Then simple OBEDIENCE FLOWS FROM THE BORN AGAIN one heart!

Yet the 10% is not the only thing that is returned, huh?

---John

I sent all of my money to Oral Roberts, because he didnt want to go to heaven ;D ;D ;D

*******
Sure you did!
We realize that the $ bill's come between many of professed Christians (WHO ARE NOT) & their relationship with Christ.
---John

I sent mine to Benny Hinn :)

Brother Love :)

Dear John,

He, who loses money, loses much; He, who loses a friend, loses much more; He, who loses faith, loses all.

I am praying for you.

Brother Love :)

We give it all to the Lord joyfully, and He blesses us in abundance.

******
Suzie,
you are a breath of fresh air! Joyfully is correct. Christ gives [the bottom line], "IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" ... JOYFULLY :)!

Missives endorsing the Robbing of God is a science of these sites, & planet! The lord does not say to not tithe, He say's this do and not leave the other not undone.

But you are right, [IF] Christ had ones heart, then He then could  re/create it, huh? It is not always the rich dude's that are the most offensive, but the cheap professors that have nothing in their pockets to begin with, that try to burry the 'talent' in the earth.

----John

Everyone has a photographic memory.  Some don't have film.
 ;D

*******
John here: (with added emphasis!)
"... and THEY SHALL SWALLOW DOWN, AND THEY SHALL BE [AS THOUGH THEY HAD *NEVER BEEN]." Obadiah 16's [last ENDING] :'(

Sounds like the 'memory of these 'ones' is ETERNALLY forgotten! Just GONE, huh? By their own free DECISION!

"And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they [SHALL BE ASHES UNDER THE SOLES OF YOUR FEET] ..." :'( :'( Mal. 4:3

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, HYPOCRITES! for ye ARE LIKE  unto whited sepulchres, (?? just to your converts perhaps!) which *INDEED APPEAR BEAUTIFUL OUTWARD, BUT ARE WITHIN FULL OF D-E-A-D men's bones, and of all uncleanness." Matt. 23:27

And why is this in the present/tense case?
"Christ said: ".. IF THEY HEAR NOT MOSES AND THE PROPHETS, [NEITHER WILL THEY BE PERSUADED THOUGH ONE ROSE FROM THE DEAD]". Luke 16:31

Christ did arise from the dead! And, His WORD says:
"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, AND HAVE OMITTED THE WEIGHTIER MATTERS OF THE LAW. JUDGEMENT, MERCY, AND FAITH: *THESE YE AUGHT TO HAVE DONE, *AND NOT LEAVE [THE *OTHER UNDONE]". Matt. 23:23

Any *HONEST 10 year old child could understand that verse!!

Mercy & FAITH??? A faith without works of Obedience Saves NO ONE! ".. can faith save him? (you) James 2:14 Your talk, talk, & more talk, is no faith whatsoever! And MERCY?

Verse 20.. But wilt thou know, [O VAIN MAN, *THAT FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS D-E-A-D]". The type of faith that was stated at the beginning of God's word! You do remember the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden FORUM?
God said to eat of it [would] bring DEATH, ETERNAL DEATH! The choice is ours to make.

And the 'serpent' called God a LIAR, 'YE SHALL NOT SURELY DIE'. Take your FREEDOM to pick you own fate friends, this birds stuff, or the Masters Everlasting Gospel & Eternal Covenant? But the wrong choice is FATAL!

---John

Sounds like John LOL

Brother Love :)

John The Baptist.
I believe you should be baptised into the Body of Christ.  It is when we give of ourselves that we truly give.
Tamara.

Tamara, keep praying for JTB

Brother Love :)

Indeed Brother.  It would be my pleasure.

Love..Tamara

Since we are no longer under the law, tithing is also dead. Our giving now comes from the heart. BUT who of us has sold everything he has and given to the poor? The degree that i'm attached to my money and security is the degree that i will not give. If I give everything away beofre i'm ready, it will not come from my heart and i will resent it. As God increases my faith, my giving will also increase. It is a process. The more the spirit is in me, the more i will be able to live out of that  rather than for worldy things. I regret that I've still got a long way to go.

Heidi?
Does it always have to come back to money?  Giving love and support, giving a cheerful smile to a stranger, giving an open sincere prayer with a person who is lost, giving whatever you can afford to the ones who need financial support, giving your own hearfult love to Father, giving Him your Praise that you have been enabled to do these things in order to please Him, helping Him on earth by giving your sincere love because He was Gracious enough to give you love through His suffering and death.
Don't these things come under 'tithing' today?  Study what Jesus told you to give under the Law of Grace.  And pray.

Love you Heidi,
Tamara.

Tamara, we were on the topic of tithing which literally means 10% of financial income. Since a monetary amount is inclusive in the definition of the word "tithe", it is related to money. Of course there are other forms of giving which wouldn't of course, be 10%, which then wouldn't make that a tithe. It is certainly much easier for us to give the things that we're not attached to. As Jesus said, what reward will we get for loving people who love us? It is then much more difficult to give away things that we are attached to. That includes loving our enemies as well as giving away our possessions and/or money. The degree that we can give away the things that are dearest to us is the degree of faith that we have cultivated.  The ones who can turn the other cheek, sell everything they have and give to the poor, basically the ones who give what is the costliest to them are the ones with the deepest faith. I am not there yet.

True Heidi,
But I have seen the Mormon church, the 7th Day Adventist church, the catholic church and many other churches grow fat and rich on people's hard earned money. In today's world...what are we tithing for?  It's the churches and a few others like Benny Hinn etc; which turned me off tithing.
Hoarding up their dollar sign like a god.

Love...Tamara.

Go buy groceries for a poor family,or help out people in your neigborhood.Ask your self what is tithing to you?Let GOD lay it on your heart.The qeustion will be answered in a way you understand and can full-fill.

Actually, I very rarely give to a church. I give to specific foundations and people where I believe my money will do the most good. I do think as Jabez said, that our giving must come from where we're led to give.

AMEN!  We have so many needy people in the world today.  And, many of them live quite close to us!  By allowing Father God to have control, we have no problem as to how to tithe.  
He promps, and we see the need and do the deed.
That's just my view for what it's worth.

Love...Tamara.

Hello everyone! I am new to the boards, but I have been struggling with this aspect of my Christian walk for a few weeks now. I have been giving 10% for a while now, but lately I question why I do it. I am not saying that we shouldn't give to the church. I fell like the church needs our offerings to support Gods church.
My question is why do we tithe 10%...and not say 5 or 15%?
It would seem like Jesus would have flat out told us in the NT to tithe 10% to support his kingdom. But I can't find a reference in the NT supporting the 10% tithe. In fact, it's hard to find verses relating to tithing money in general.

I feel like I do not give cheerfully right now, and wonder why I give 10% if God knows I do it begrudgingly(sp?).
But, I also feel like it is something I have done for so long and that God expects his people to sacrifice for him on this earth and that if I gave a little less, I would be giving my love to money and not my Father.

Any viewpoints would be welcomed! Everyone, have a blessed day!!

Welcome Kev!

What I'd like to know about tithing is...when did it become a tithe of money?  It was always produce in the Old Testament!
Jesus stated "It is when you give of yourselves that you TRULY give".  
The churches to me seem to have become quite rich on the money tithe law.  But...when did Jesus tell us to tithe money?
We are under the Law of Grace now...

Love...Tamara.

Tamara,
  Thanks for your response. I agree with the money issue and the NT. It is REALLY a source of struggle for me right now.
I think I know the "logical" answer - which is too give from the heart and not from a "traditional OT" Law.

I don't really have a problem in thinking that the "church" is hoarding the money and getting rich off of it. The church I am in is a good one...so no worries there. Our pastor, who is great, does preach 10%. But I just continue to ask why????
I wish Jesus would have just said give me my 10%!!!! :) :)

But my spirit...or atleast I think it is, is saying give to God
what you should give to him. I feel like I would be giving back
to myself so I can buy small material things instead of investing earnings into God's kingdom.

I am really at a crossroads as I just found out my bank account is negative and I wonder what I should do.

Kev i feel ya,i dont know how many times ive looked at my bank statement and seen negaitive bal,its a terrible feeling.Lately it hasnt bothered me i just praise GOD and i feel great.As far as tithing the best thing i can think of to do is,pray ask for GOD to lay it upon your heart you will know.Just lift your hands and praise GOD in the mist of troubles!Remember GOD is for you!

Hi Kev! Hi Jabez!

We are not commanded to give 10% of our earnings to any church.  We are asked to give what we can to help.  Jesus would never place us in such a situation as that is binding us to a religious law pharaseeical Law.
It was Jesus who set us FREE from these things.
We are under no other obligation to anyone to give 10% of our money.
We are asked to love one another.  So, are you sure the Lord has laid it on you heart?
We are not under O.T. law anymore.  We are under the Law of Grace.  Jesus stated "It is when you give OF YOURSELF that you truly give."
Hey guys!  Jesus died to set us free!  We have the 10 Commandments written on our hearts now, NOT on stone...and the 10% tithing is obsolete.
Give love...give money as you can afford it.  Jesus also stated "I would that you should have GOOD HEALTH"

Do you think he'd have you worrying about your bank balances?  He gave you your money to care for YOURSELVES and your family FIRST!  

Love...Tamara.

 :-[ I have a slightly different view on that - we're told to give our "firstfruits" to God, our "firstborn". When the Jews brought their offerings, it was the best of their harvest, the healthiest of their flocks, not table scraps and deformed lambs. I believe we are to trust that God will take care of us. We don't often see how much God can work in our lives until we give our best to Him, and trust that He will provide for our every need. (Not that we should go flinging our paycheck to every TV preacher that wants our money, of course.  ;D)

I certainly agree that Jesus doesn't ask us to give only money; our time and talents are also very important to Him. But money plays a vital role in our Christian life.

We are no longer under jewish law Willow.  They were asked to do many things.  And what happened?  Today, we are simply asked to act in Love.  We are under no commandment, not any obligation to pay one cent to any church.  If we see the need, we do the deed...in love.

Tamara.

Thanks tamara & willow.
I truly understand both viewpoints...please keep posting on this topic as I feel it is a very real issue in Christians'
lives. Have a GREAT day guys & gals!!!

Yes!  ;D When the early Christians gave to the church, they gave as they felt lead; some sold everything, some didn't. When Ananias and Saphira (sp?) were struck down, it was not simply because they didn't give all their profit to the church, but because they promised and didn't fulfill what they'd vowed.

P.S. Amen we aren't under Jewish law! (I've got a lot of bacon and rabbit in the freezer I wouldn't be able to eat, lol)

P.S.S. I still think we ought to give as we see a need. Not a specific percentage, not to a specific place, but to help our brethren.  ;D

True!

It seems like most of you guys believe that the 10% allocation has been abolished by the NT. It seems fairly obvious to me, so why is this still preached so heavily?
I know some churches need the money, but not all do.
So why does the traditional Christians preach the 10% tithe
still exists? It makes me feel like I am not giving what I should
if I don't give a full 10%.

Thanks again to all, and look forward to more views.
Kev

We are not under jewish law!

You Got That Right :)

Brother Love :)

Hello all,
Im new to this forum, actually this is my first post in any forum.
I agree 100% that we are not under the law of tithing. For some however, 10% of increase to their local church is a good place to start. I personally do not find anything "wrong" with tithing, it is a good prinsible to give 10% of our increase to the work of the church. But as we grow in muturity as a believer we must learn to be led by the Spirit in our giving of money, as well as all types of giving.
The interesting thing about tithing under the New Testament is that is almost absencent. I have found four different passages which mention the "tithe" in the New Testament.


Matthew 23:23: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others."

This is repeated in Luke 11:42. THis tithe was not money but was with garden herbs, Also the Mosaic Law was still in force. These Pharisees lived under a different covenant with different laws than the New Testament believer does. By Christ's death He inaugurated the New Covenant, thereby bringing about a change in the law (Lk. 22:20; Heb. 7:12).

Luke 18:12: "I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get."

In this passage Jesus is telling the parable about the Pharisee and the tax-collector. The self-righteous person trusts in something "he does" to be accepted before God, but he is not justified before God. Christ is speaking about a Pharisee who tithes living under the Mosaic Law, not of a Christian tithing under the New Covenant.


Hebrews 7:1-10: "For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham as he was returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham apportioned a tenth part of all the spoils, was first of all, by the translation of his name, king of righteousness, and then also king of Salem, which is king of peace. Without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, he abides a priest perpetually. Now observe how great this man was to whom Abraham, the patriarch, gave a tenth of the choicest spoils. And those indeed of the sons of Levi who receive the priest's office have commandment in the Law to collect a tenth from the people, that is, from their brethren, although these are descended from Abraham. But the one whose genealogy is not traced from them collected a tenth from Abraham, and blessed the one who had the promises. But without any dispute the lesser is blessed by the greater. And in this case mortal men receive tithes, but in that case one receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives on. And, so to speak, through Abraham even Levi, who received tithes, paid tithes, for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him."

This passage is showing us the excellence of Christ, who ministers as a priest far superior to the Levites. So this passage can not be used to enforce the tithe on Christians. It has nothing to do with Christian giving, but everything to do with the superiority of Christ.

There is not one word in all the New Testament to command that New Covenant Christians must tithe.

 The New Testament however gives us much instruction on the subject of giving.

Im short on time so I will finish my thought tommorow.
God Bless You All!

Welcome aboard EndTimeAction, Grace & Peace

There is not one word in all the New Testament to command that New Covenant Christians must tithe.

The New Testament however gives us much instruction on the subject of giving.

AMEN!!!

Brother Love :)

Oklahoma Howdy to EndTimeAction,

I sincerely hope you enjoy the Christian fellowship here.


Love In Christ,
Tom

The New Testament doesnt tell us to give 10% of our increase.          "Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Cor. 9:7). The Old Testament tithe was required by law.  The New Testament teaching on giving focuses on its voluntary character. "For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability they gave of their own accord" (2 Cor. 8:3).  We are free to give the amount we choose to give. If we want to give 10%, we are free to do so. However, if we decide to give 9 per cent or 11 per cent, or 20 per cent or 50 per cent, then so be it. Our standard of giving is not a fixed percentage point, but the example of our awesome Savior.       "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, that you through His poverty might become rich" (2 Cor. 8:9). Our standard of giving is Christ Himself, who did not give 10 per cent or 20 per cent or even 50 per cent, but 100 per cent! He gave everything He had, including His very life in order to redeem sinful men and women like you and me!


Peaople that have alot of money feel that if they just pay their ten per cent, God is pleased. But for a wealthy man to give ten per cent of his income may actually be displeasing to God if he is living a life of extravagant luxury, while giving a mere appeasment to the work of God and the needs of others. The will of God for this man may be for him to be giving 40 to 80 per cent of his income instead of ten per cent. We must be led by the Spirit through prayer as to how much money we shall give.

Those who are poor should not feel guilty if they are not able to give ten per cent of their income. It is true that God will honor and bless the man who gives sacrificially, but if an individual decides that he can't give ten per cent of his income and still meet his basic needs, he does have that liberty. After all, God has nowhere told Christians that it is their duty to give any fixed percentage point. Anyone who says so does not have an understanding of the scripture.

If it is true that tithing was part of the Old Covenant worship of Israel, and has no practical bearing upon New Covenant Christians, the question is, what does the New Testament actually teach about giving?

1 Corinthians 16:1-2: "Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I directed the churches of Galatia, so do you also. On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come." Paul directs the church of Corinth in their collection for the poor saints in Jerusalem to give proportionately to how they have prospered. Though there is no mention of the saints in Corinth giving a tithe, they are instructed to give proportionate to their prosperity. Those who have more to give should give more.


Acts 11:27-39: "Now at this time some prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. And one of them named Agabus stood up and began to indicate by the Spirit that there would certainly be a great famine all over the world. And this took place in the reign of Claudius. And in the proportion that any of the disciples had means, each of them determined to send a contribution for the relief of the brethren living in Judea."  In other words, they gave according to their ability. Those with more money, gave more. Those with less money, gave less. Very simple.


2 Corinthians 9:7: "Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver." Paul tells the church to give what they have purposed in their heart. Notice that the Apostle does not tell them how much to give, or give them a fixed percentage. He simply tells them that whatever they have decided to give they should give. Notice that the apostle Paul leaves the amount up to the Corinthians. We are not to allow others to manipulate or intimidate us so that we give out of guilt or pressure.


Most churches that ive seen still teach the tithe. We are told that if we dont give our 10% that we are robbing God and that God will not and cannot bless us.  All of this runs contrary to the Apostle's teaching in 2 Corinthians 9:7 "let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly, or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." I personaly believe if we all were to do as Paul instructed, local churches would probably have more money coming in than they would preacing the tithe. People living under Grace are more likley to give more of their money than people still trying to live under the law. "For the law of the Spirit of life has set us free from the law of sin and death." Rom.




Acts 2:44-45 "And all those who had believed were together, and had all things in common; and they began selling their property and possessions, and were sharing them with all, as anyone might have need."

1 John 3:17 "But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth."


Galatians 6:9-10 "And let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we shall reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all men, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith."


Philipians 4:15-18 "And you yourselves also know, Philippians, that at the first preaching of the gospel, after I departed from Macedonia, no church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving but you alone; for even in Thessalonica you sent a gift more than once for my needs. Not that I seek the gift itself, but I seek for the profit which increases to your account. But I have received everything in full, and have an abundance; I am amply supplied, having received from Epaphroditus what you have sent, a fragrant aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well-pleasing to God."

Luke 12:33-34 "Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."


Ephesians 4:28 "Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need."

Ephesians 4:28 "Let him who steals steal no longer; but rather let him labor, performing with his own hands what is good, in order that he may have something to share with him who has need."

A lot of pastors need to understand this verse.

Brother Love :)

LOL :) Good one Ambassador

P.S. Amen to the study "NO MORE TITHING"

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
<:)))><

I have seen a lot of quotes from the Bible, old and new Testament on what it has to say or not to say about tithing...  

   All I know is that God owns everything on this earth... and as someone said the New Testament teaches a lot about giving.. I know that there are charlatans out there who preach about a seed... and that if you give you will become rich beyond your wildest dreams.. and anyone who gives with that in mind is not giving as the widow gave... but to line their own pockets.

   Paul and the rest of the disciples counted on those who attended their "churches" to help each other and to send money to those who had none... sound familiar?  

   Our church has many wonderful programs of outreach and they need to be supported by our congregation to continue.  There are many trustworthy causes out there that could use our help.  The preacher needs payed, we are supposed to support our preachers, electric, gas, etc for the church.  Vacation Bible School, our MOPS group, Sunday School material, upkeep of the church... all kinds of things that are worthwhile and for the spread of the "Gospel"...

     I find that those who complain about tithing are either under the delusion that their money is their own, and God has no need of it.

      Or they just don't go to church anywhere, because they don't think that going to church is needed because they have all they need by being on the internet and reading and studying the Bible.  

     They know everything there is to know about the Bible , but they don't go out and become the light they are supposed to be. Being with other believers and supporting each other.

      The turn on the tv and  all they hear are the "preachers' out there on tv land who prey on those who have no church of their own... and they think that all churches and preachers are out to get their hard earned money, so they keep all of their money in the bank etc. and watch it grow as their hearts grow colder and colder..
  Joy

It's not how much we give, but what that giving means:

Mar 12:41  And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much.
Mar 12:42  And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Mar 12:43  And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mar 12:44  For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.

What should we give? We give as God places on our heart. Sometimes it's more, sometimes less. We should be more concerned about why we are giving; out of love and obedience, or out of duty.

blessings
Gracey

Hi Everyone  :D

I used to believe that tithing was for today but am thankful I came to learn the truth that its not. One thing though, I don't think anyone can refute I think the real issue even today with God is where is your heart. Do you look to God as your source of supply or merely your job? Im not saying God would say this to you but what if God said, "Hey I want you to give your whole paycheck away this week to the poor and I'll take care of you from another source as you trust me" would we be able to release to God what he asks? God gives us our jobs thats true but how much do you depend on it? If one truly sees their job as their source isn't that idolarty?      

I had to come to almost the end of this post before someone actually "hit it on the head" [unendingjoy] about tithing. It's really sad that so many have becomed so attached to "thier"  money that they really think it's thiers! Some heart!
God doesn't need your money at all..It costs the church..all the expenses that you would expect..[Imagine that!] There is no need to list the expenses, you can figure that out.
You give out of your love for Jesus Christ and so that the whole world can hear the Good News..you give of yourselves in addition..and serve Him in all the ways He has equipped you. It's not that hard to figure out, if you truly love the Lord and know Him.
He can see through all excuses. :)  

The Jewish Nation of Israel was not "created" until Mt Sinai, Ex 19:1-8; and was there formed from the well over 600,000 (Gentile) descendants of Jacob (Israel), during their 430 years of Egyptian captivity; Ex 12:37,38. All of those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls came from the original twelve (Gentile) sons of (Gentile) Israel. At Mt Sinai those well over 600,000 (Gentile) souls entered into The Old Testament Covenant of Law with God. And in order "to administer" it's well over 660 commandments, judgments, and ordinances, God created The Levitical Priesthood out of one of those twelve sons of Israel; i.e., out of The Tribe of Levi.

Inasmuch as those Levites were required to devote their entire daily lives to the care and conduct of the Jewish Tabernacle, they were not given any portion of The Holy Land, so they could also support themselves. Therefore, it became necessary for the other eleven tribes of Israel "to fully support" the one tribe of Priestly Levites, Num 18:21. Thus, "the 10% Jewish income tax".

Nowhere in biblical history was anyone else ever "ordained" to collect the foregoing 10% tithe, except the Priestly tribe of Levites; e.g., Heb 7:5. This they did "ACCORDING TO THE (strictly Jewish) OLD TESTAMENT LAW OF MOSES"! That this was indeed "A JEWISH ORDINANCE", is plainly so stated in Mal 3:7-10. And that (all) such "JEWISH ORDINANCES" were completely "BLOTTED OUT" dejure, at Calvary, is also plainly so stated in Eph 2:14,15, Col 2:14, Heb 9:1-10.

<:)))><

Tithing is an Old Testament command that was for the Jews and was in reality their "taxation" system. The tithe consisted of:

1 Temple Tithe (Tax)
2 Land Tithe (Tax) Lev. 27:30-33
3 Sabbath Tithe (Tax)
4 Special Profit-Sharing Tithe (Tax)

The required giving for the Jew was approximately 25 percent per year. In addition to all of this there was voluntary giving in the Old Testament which included first fruit giving (Ex. 23) and freewill offerings (Lev. 22).


The old testament tithe was, in reality, a form of taxation for the support of the theocratic form of government. By the same token, the "tithe" today is in the form of taxes paid to the government for its support.

The New Testament does teach that a Christian should give to God but only in the sense that it is freewill giving from the heart. While no specific percentage is given, we are to give:

1. In response to need - Acts 4:35, Acts 11:27-29
2. In a systematic and purposeful manner - II Cor. 9:7, I Cor. 16:2
3. In a sacrificial way that "costs" us - Mark 12:41-44, Lk 19:8
4. In a secret and humble way - Matt 6:1-4
5. In a cheerful manner - II Cor. 9:7

The long and short....."tithing" to your local church, or denomination, is not scriptural.....giving is (as each purposes in their heart).

Unfortunately, a drawback is that too many "christians" sitting in the pews don't pay any attention to the New Testament where it says that "a workman is worthy of his hire", and determine to keep the preacher poor and dependent....and others think they need to put him up in a mansion with a silver Rolls Royce and a gold Rolex.   >:(

I don't like debates and don't like to get into one.

All I know is that I have been a tither all my life and have seen God's tremendous blessings in my life because of that.

I encouarage others to tithe as I would love to see them get blessed in the prosperous kingdom of God.

Love,

Helen

I can't believe what I've been reading here! I never thought I'd come across so many Christians who feel the tithe is not necessary anymore just because it was in the old testament. In all honesty it sound like all of you who are anti-tithe are trying to justify your reasoning for not doing it, just because it comes from the Old Testament. Should we then abandon the Ten Commandments because they are from the Old Testament and be allowed to murder, lie, covet, and the like?
I should hope not!!!

I do agree that bible doesn't specifically address tithing in the New Testament, but I did find this:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:17

These are Jesus's own words.

In Christ Alone,

Stephen