what makes a denomination a denomination

[pocket]

agreed upon Doctrine's
is what makes a denomination a denomination
not a name a church body goes by.

For example one should never concider one baptist chuch in kansas where the preacher's message to the public  is ;God hates fags. To be part of the denomination Known as southern baptist which is the largest protestant denomination in America  with around 20 million member's .In fact that
God hates fags main message  church as far as i can tell  is not  a member of any known  baptist denomination; nor can i find they claim any.. They are not  Primitive baptist's or Southern baptist's or American baptist's .perhaps it would be fairest to concider them a denomination unto them selves.

One should keep in mind  their are no laws that forbid
 a church body from using the name baptist or lutheran or methodist.
Any one can start a church body and go under such general names no matter how far from the others of  that general  name they may believe.

So when we concider denomination's now day's we must concider what type of baptist or lutheran or methosist or even nondenominational Church body they are .
Meaning what are their doctrine's what are their teaching's.
"All of them."

do they believe in  the whole truth? of Gods word or do they
not.

And I obviously disagree that one can not have the whole truth. Since God say's they can . What does he say?
does he not say

My word is truth!

and has God not given the bible to all?
So their is no excuse any of us can have for not having the whole truth and absoulute truth; Given to all in his Scriptures.

Where the problem lies is with us not God's Scripture's . Do we believe it?

 Any denomination has the whole truth if they have the Holy  Bible .
But is their teachings  in agreement as  scriptures set forth what is to be believed.

And none of us can live or practice the bible perfectly even if we believe it's truth's .
Thank God Jesus has lived it perfectly for us.




 

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi pocket,

While I agree with you to some extent on your statements I must say that people usually, with a few exceptions as you have stated,  give a denominational name based upon their churches doctrines. My point is that most people divide the church in this manner. This was not the original intent nor was it the practice of the early church. If you take notice in the Bible when the word church is used there are no denominations. Denominations was the invention of man not God. The Bible always said "the Church" and would delineate between them only by their geographical location (i.e. "the church that was at Antioch")  as they considered them to be all one church, the body of Christ. Man in his infinite wisdom (sarcasm here) decided that they needed to change the doctrines to fit there own needs and in conjunction with those doctrines attached a denominational name, further splitting up the body of Christ.

There are those that hide behind a name that are not necessarily of that denomination. Just as there are those that may go to a certain church for many, many years that are not saved. There are at least 321 Baptist denominations in the U.S. alone and this number is continually growing.

The problem I am talking about are those people that use this denominational split by saying things such as "my church is the only true church, all others have false doctrines". This is what I mean. That we as members of the body of Christ need to get beyond this division caused by denominational names and to be unifed through the Spirit.




Eph 4:12  For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13  Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Eph 4:14  That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Eph 4:15  But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
Eph 4:16  From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

[pocket]

Once again i must disagree with you.
the name "denominational " is  what men used for naming
all  different church's in the christian church because of the  doctrine's.

The problem is not the name denominational the problem is with each individual who do not bother to check out with scripture which denomination believes scripture .
here are two different denomination's with the same general name. Which one is inline with scripture. Using scripture you
tell me.
Link Removed - Denomination Promotion and Denominatoin Bashing

 men called our great 3 in one God the Trinity . there is nothing wrong with men giving thing's name's. You will not fing the name Trinity in the bible but that does not make the word Trinity describing God  wrong .
there would be nothing wrong at all with all the different denomination's if they all believed the bible . So the problem is not the name but the teachings do they agree with the bible ? If  all do not . than it is well with God that they  divide .
because God's teaching's divide ---------the sheep from the Goat's!
or the chaff from the wheat! If the fences have open gate's
sheep and goat's get to gether.
so what's wrong with that?
Jesus say's a little leaven leaven the whole loaf.
We might in to day's language say a bad spot in a aplle will ruin the whole apple. Or a bad apple will spoil all the apples
that come in contact with it.

Jesus is talking about just a little wrong doctrine that destroy's his believer's in his true doctrine's

[Soldier4Christ]

I am not going to get into individual denominational bashing here. You are missing the overall idea behind the comments I made in my post.

My main point is that I do not worship a denomination. I worship God. Salvation is not through a denomination it is through Jesus Christ. The body of Christ is not a denomination made by man, it is made up of those saved through Jesus Christ our Saviour.

[pocket]

Pastor You seem angry that I am aware .That most people belief's have been formed or "misinformed" by  clergy
of many different denomination's or nondenominational churches.

and that it is "sin " when one knows that certain denomination's are teaching in error not to alert other's.

You call it bashing Thats a fair ward  . And you imply I am sinner.
well you certainly are right on target again.

I suppose one could call alerting people to the harmful
cigarett brands that have been Known to cause cancer  as bashing these brand's . AND IF you thought their  were safe cigarett brands that were not known to cause cancer you would keep
it to your self.



well sir  you are a much better person than me.
but a old  rascal like me just cant' help but telling people
about

 a few safe places  where  Gods word

is respected and taught .
place's  where any critical views  of the bible are  rejected .



God's blessing's

[LittlePilgrim]

I think, Pockets, that you place an undue importance on denominational doctrine. All that really matters is the core truth of what Scripture teaches and what is taught of Christ. The most important facts of Christ: He is God, first and foremost. He came to this world over 2000 years ago, born of the virgin Mary, whom was God's chosen vessel, His handmaiden, as she herself said, no more, no less. That Christ lived a sinless life. That Christ died upon the cross and therefore paid the penalty for all sins, past, present, and future, and that this sacrifice is sufficient for all humanity. That Jesus Christ laid in the tomb three days and then rose again on the third day, thus proving His power over death and death's master, the enemy. That Christ is even now at the Father's right hand, preparing a place for all those who now or who will love Him. And that Christ has sent the Spirit to assist all His children, the Christians.
Other things are open to individual interpretation. These are the only truths which are necessary to be held for salvation, and the truths upon which the church must unite.

[Soldier4Christ]

I am not angry at all.  


Again you have missed my point. I have been to many WELS churches and while I believe that many teach the word of God correctly it does not change the point that I was making. I have also been to Baptist churches and other denominations that correctly taught the word of God and yet others that did not. It still is not my point.

The point that I was and am making is that many people put the denomination ahead of the word of God. The idea "If you don't go to my church then you are in a bad church", "If you don't go to my church then you aren't saved".

As I said, I do not worship a denomination, I worship God. Salvation is not through a denomination it is through Jesus Christ. The body of Christ is not a denomination made by man, it is made up of those saved through Jesus Christ our Saviour.

[LittlePilgrim]

AMEN PASTOR ROGER!!!!  

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I'll just simply say that man's denominations, tags, and labels mean absolutely nothing to God. God looks at the heart, and the Holy Spirit is either there or not.

If the Holy Spirit of God is in a person's heart, that person already belongs to the ONLY TRUE CHURCH, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. There won't be any of man's denominations, labels, and tags in Heaven. They will simply be left behind as things of the world - not GOD! Those who think that they have the only truth and path to Salvation are simply displaying the vanity of man. JESUS is the only WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE. Many of the people sitting in the pews of the brick and mortar church claiming to be the only way are lost, and there are many brick and mortar churches making this ridiculous claim. Hosts of people will be able to continue this debate for eternity in hell.

JESUS is the only WAY!

Those who wish to boast -

Let them boast in JESUS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 11:1-3 NASB  Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval. By faith we understand that the worlds were prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things which are visible.

[pocket]

I think, Pockets, that you place an undue importance on denominational doctrine. All that really matters is the core truth of what Scripture teaches and what is taught of Christ. The most important facts of Christ: He is God, first and foremost. He came to this world over 2000 years ago, born of the virgin Mary, whom was God's chosen vessel, His handmaiden, as she herself said, no more, no less. That Christ lived a sinless life. That Christ died upon the cross and therefore paid the penalty for all sins, past, present, and future, and that this sacrifice is sufficient for all humanity. That Jesus Christ laid in the tomb three days and then rose again on the third day, thus proving His power over death and death's master, the enemy. That Christ is even now at the Father's right hand, preparing a place for all those who now or who will love Him. And that Christ has sent the Spirit to assist all His children, the Christians.
Other things are open to individual interpretation. These are the only truths which are necessary to be held for salvation, and the truths upon which the church must unite.

you are kinda  saying.  God sure waisted his time authoring
the rest of the bible that tell us many other truth's  that are important to one's salvation. If they were not important for us to know for our salvation God would not have wrote all those extra thing's . He would have had you simply write the above your summary  .
Since that is all you think is important for ones salvation.

 i can certainly now see by your example why their must be division because I think every doctrine is important for ones salvation or God would not have authored so much more than you tell.

division is grand is it not ! Imagine if i was in your church
I think you would be grabbing me by the throat by now.

Gods blessing's

[Soldier4Christ]

No pocket, division is not grand. Division causes the fall of the Church, it separates brother from brother. You say that you think every doctrine is important and yet you ignore the doctrine that teaches against division and even advocate division amongst the Church.

Even in the time of Paul there were divisions started in the Church. People started this " I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."


Take note of Pauls response:

1Co 1:13  Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?



Mat 12:25  And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

[GKB]

pockets, i'm sorry i did not catch what denomination you are. and this denomination, does it teach division as you do? is this teaching of yours....yours, or your churches? does your pastor know this is what you are teaching? you certainly must have another message. you seem a bit passionate about denomination....i imagine every denomination thinks theirs is right, but only god can weigh the spirits...and what spirit do you teach this message in? please do not be affended, i'm only asking. because jesus greatest message was not that of denomination, i wonder if yours should be.

let me say this to you, if you are about a work for the lord, and you have a desire to lead people to the "truth", there are a whole host of people on the corners, in hospitals, and in prison, etc who hasn't found a church yet...target those people....why preach to people who are being taught already.

hey heres an idea, if the heart of the believer is sincere towards god, he by the spirit will lead them and guide them into all truths....if your church/denomination is the truth, than get prepared to receive them, because god himself will order there steps right to your door....

if they are not coming to the point where you are frustrated, perhaps you should seek the lord to find if you are getting the truth....you might find that you may have found a church, and never found jesus!

[LittlePilgrim]

Pockets is a lutheran, GKB, to answer your question.

And Pockets, that is not what I'm saying at all. Of course everything taught in the Scriptures is important. But what I am telling you is that one can doubt the Creation story (which I personally do not, but I have come across younger believers who do) and still be a sincere believer in Christ and the salvation He brings. You need to stop preaching denominational doctrine and start preaching Christ to those who need Him... Not to those who have already found Him.

Of course, there are plenty of discussions you can have with your brothers and sisters in Christ. We all have different viewpoints. The Spirit reveals different things to us about the same portions of Scripture, according to His will. But do not bash other denominations just because they do not follow the Lutheran doctrine (which, BTW, if I wanted to, I could find several major Biblical flaws with).

But the point is, you focus too much on division and differences. We need to unite around this: That there is One God, made up of three divine persons; Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. That there is ONE way to be saved, through the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And that we are ONE body, ONE church. Christ is not polygamus. He does not have many brides, but rather one bride... His church.

[JudgeNot]

I "became" Baptist because the only church within 20 miles was a Baptist church - not because I chose a particular denominational doctrine.  If the local congregation had of been Methodist, Lutheran or even Catholic, I don't think I would love Jesus any less.  

If I was a new Christian at 50, I'm not sure how I would approach "choosing" a church - but I would probably lean toward the congregation of the person who introduced me to the Lord.

Since I'm an "old" Christian at 50 church shopping is easier.  I lean toward the "dunkin' doner" recipe: A heaping tablespoon of grace, copious amounts of Christ’s blood, a cup of raw love and a gallon of humility.  Toss it all in the blender – top it off with as much of The Spirit as possible and hit the “frappe” button.  This is the recipe for a charitable heart to be followed by a heap of heavenly dessert.  Mmmmm.  

I'm still "church shopping" here in central Tejas.  I actually prefer a smallish community congregation - but all the churches in NW Austin seem to be in the mega-church variety.  There are at least a half-dozen within a few miles of me that require sheriff’s deputies to direct traffic on Sunday mornings - that's not my cup-o-tea.

 

[GKB]

once again, time for us to get caught up on jesus, and not all this other non-sense! what denomination was jesus? thats the one i'm going with. not to mention the only doctrine that we were instructed to follow in the bible was the apostalic doctrine (acts 2:42)....never really read about any other doctrine, have you....so i guess if i had to pick, i'd be apostolic.maybe you have the wrong doctrine!!!! not the lutherans, just you.