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Author Topic: Canada suicide hotline!!!!  (Read 3457 times)
ZakDar
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« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2005, 10:11:06 AM »

Well M, gonna hit ya where you hit Tibby. Better do some research on that great healthcare. I went through it here in Ontario.

I had a major breakdown (won't go into details) 3 years ago, and after the ambulance came and picked me up, (I was unconscious), I waited in the hallway of the hospital for 5 hours on a stretcher.

You see, this great health care system shut down many ICUs, and the hospital in my hometown had to wait for an opening elsewhere. So, while I was possibly dying in that hallway, (my wife says I turned the color of gray), I was just a number waiting for another number to allow me to receive treatment.

Eventually, (5 hours later), I arrived at a hospital 30 miles from my hometown.

Kinda gets ya to thinking doesn't it? You could be dying, but you can't receive proper treatment until there's room for you.

So I wouldn't be holding the Canadian health care system up as a model to anyone in this world. People die unnecessarily under this system.

Oh, and as far as those wonderful bypasses that happen daily go, ever consider the waiting list for them? Ever consider how long someone has to wait to get it done? Ever think that some actually die while waiting for an opening?

While we do have some excellent talent, we don't have enough of it. And a significant reason for that is the cost cutting that went on when the fed downloaded the health care costs to the provinces.

Plus those talented individuals will only do their work in large centres like Toronto, Montreal, and Vancouver. It's a money thing, don't ya know.

Lastly, every thing in this system is NOT free. And every year the provinces are looking to download more and more treatments to the people.
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« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2005, 09:58:46 AM »

I happen to know an American woman who has a disability and many chronic health problems.  She has a part-time job.  While she has whatever the public insurance is, she can not find a doctor that will take her health insurance.  She lives in the New York City area.  She was quite amazed that people in Canada could go to "walk-in clinics" and see a doctor.  

So much for Christian mercy.  Yes, it is about money.  

Do you really resent paying taxes so that poor people, children and the disabled can go to see a doctor?

If you do have to go to emergency again, try to get a family member to phone your family doctor.  If your family doctor phones or faxes the emergency department, he/she can give them important information about your medical conditions.  Otherwise, you might have to wait longer for tests to be done.  Emergency departments work on a triage system.  It is not first come, first served.  They treat the most critical cases first.  

There are hundreds of experienced foreign trained doctors living in Canada who are not allowed to practice.  Plus many Canadian trained doctors will go to United States from Canada to practice: some for more money, some for experience.  Often they return.  Yes, there does seem to be more doctors in the larger cities.  Some communities organize buses or carpools to transport people to their appointments once a week.  Some specialists often fly in to northern communities to see patients once a month.  Just because a health insurance scheme is public, does not mean that the people do not have a say in how it should be run.  Many communities have worked hard to raise money to build their hospitals and they should be able to keep them open.  Some communities even top up a salary to keep doctors and their local emergency open.  

Do not be fooled.  For profit insurance companies and hospitals are run FOR PROFIT.  
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JudgeNot
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« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2005, 11:29:54 AM »

Quote
Do not be fooled.  For profit insurance companies and hospitals are run FOR PROFIT.
M - you say that like it's a bad thing.  

I want a rich American doctor who lives in a big expensive house.  He is rich because he is very, very good at what he does.  

It is against the law in the United States for an emergency room to turn away a patient.  Everyone gets healthcare.  Those of us who can pay pay for all Ė but thatís okay Ė I donít want a bunch of dead bodies piling up in the streets.  Lips Sealed

Socialism begets apathy.  Thatís why socialism has always and will always fail.  

ďBut having the sense of a job well done is reward enoughĒ some say.  Hogwash.  Growing the best wheat so you can trade for the best chickens; thatís a basic free market ideal.  When a socialist government gets involved, they take the wheat and give you back whatever they see fit.  Everyone gets the same chicken no matter how hard they work.  So why work?  Why improve?  Why work hard and sweat?  At the end of the day, all you have is a skinny chicken.

Now Ė what a chicken has to do with the subject at hand, I havenít a clue.   Grin

JN
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« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2005, 01:15:46 AM »

Hi JN,

As a point of order, I'm not entirely sure where you are going with your comment: "Thatís why socialism has always and will always fail."

Are you suggesting that Canada is a failed state? Or, perhaps nations such as Sweeden, Norway, Finland or other Scandanavian countires, that are annulay named as the best places in the world to live, are in some way failing their people?  

cheers,

Jimmy
« Last Edit: July 19, 2005, 03:27:07 AM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
JudgeNot
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« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2005, 11:04:51 AM »

Greetings Mr. Swift,
You list no countries that are pure socialist governments; that is, countries who "redistribute" the wealth.  

The USSR is the most recent example of failure.  It failed from within (with the Gippers help Smiley ) for exactly the reason I stated: apathy.  Do you know anyone (other than socialist liberals  Lips Sealed) who believe Cuba is a gem of a society?  Good ol' Fidel - what a guy.

There are very few pure socialist states these days, which is both a blessing and a curse.  A curse because those who are blind to history are trying it again.  

I suppose my biggest beef with socialism, is that the subjects are basically required to replace God with government.  The American liberals' utopia depends on "pure" socialism. That's a nation killer.  

As far as Canada, New Zealand and other countries who are tipping the scales more to the socialist side, I do believe they are in decline.  Why?  Apathy.

God bless and take care, Jimmy,

JN


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« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2005, 01:11:45 PM »

The USSR and Cuba bordered on the edge of being a communist government not just socialists. Much of their policies were/are communistic.

The U.S. went through a transformation from a republic to a democracy and is now headed toward socialism. Many of our laws are socialistic even now.

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« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2005, 09:44:10 PM »

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« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2005, 11:46:39 PM »

Hi Judge Not,

I'm going to have to ask you for something of an explaination regarding your claim that Canadians are somehow apathetic.  This seems to suggest that you hold an enlightened world view, and those silly backwards Canadians just don't understand.  I really think that you are selling an entire group of highly educated and opinionated people short with such a claim.

"Apathy" is one of the most ambiguous words that one can use these days, and so I was curious to know what you mean when you use it to describe the millions of people who live in G8 and other economically and politically advanced nations that "tip to the socialist side"

cheers,

Jimmy
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JudgeNot
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« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2005, 12:39:00 AM »

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I'm going to have to ask you for something of an explaination regarding your claim that Canadians are somehow apathetic.
I never said that.  Show me where I said that. Don't put words in my mouth and don't attribute ideas to me that I don't think. I said SOCIALISM BEGETS apathy.

Quote
This seems to suggest that you hold an enlightened world view, and those silly backwards Canadians just don't understand.

I never said that.  Show me where I said that.  Show me where I said I think I am "enlightened".  Don't pull that liberal crap on me.  I never suggested that.  Show me where I suggested that. Don't put words in my mouth, and don't attempt to convence yourself that I have "ideas" that I don't think.  That is another liberal waste of our "collective" time.

Quote
I really think that you are selling an entire group of highly educated and opinionated people short with such a claim.
I don't sell people.  I'm not in that business. People, as well as ideologies, sell themselves - for good or for bad.

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"Apathy" is one of the most ambiguous words that one can use these days
Hmmm. "Ambiguous"? How so?  Give me some examples. I guess I'm too stupid - that crack went right over my head.

Quote
I was curious to know what you mean when you use it to describe the millions of people who live in G8 and other economically and politically advanced nations that "tip to the socialist side"
 LOL! G8 means nothing to me.  Jesus Christ and ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL mean something to me. God has given each and every man HIS given right to succeed.  Along with that right, comes the right to fail.  Where floors are built there are also ceilings. You would put a ceiling on man's God given right to succeed and take care of his family?  Fine.  I don't wish to be a part of that society.

FYI - Occupied California  (where I presently live but am attempting to claim political assylum to a right thinking state)is light-years ahead of Canada or any other semi-socialist nation when it comes to taking from the earners and giving to the unearners.  Forgive me if you felt I was singling out the northern socialists.

Had I known you were so liberally sensitive, I would never had engaged you in dialogue.  
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« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2005, 01:07:26 AM »

Hi Judge Not,

I'm going to have to ask you for something of an explaination regarding your claim that Canadians are somehow apathetic.  This seems to suggest that you hold an enlightened world view, and those silly backwards Canadians just don't understand.  I really think that you are selling an entire group of highly educated and opinionated people short with such a claim.

"Apathy" is one of the most ambiguous words that one can use these days, and so I was curious to know what you mean when you use it to describe the millions of people who live in G8 and other economically and politically advanced nations that "tip to the socialist side"

cheers,

Jimmy

Whether it is Canada, the U. S. or any other governement. When socialism creeps in apathy does step in. Apathy is a lack of interest or concern. In socialism there is a lack of interest in trying to improve ones self when there is no way that one can improve oneself.

Judgenot was not picking on Canadians when he made the statement that he did. He was talking of extreme socialist governments, not those that are moderately socialistic werein a person is still able to improve his living conditions. The more stringent the socialism the more apathy becomes apparent.



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« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2005, 02:25:31 AM »

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JudgeNot Said:

Had I known you were so liberally sensitive, I would never had engaged you in dialogue.  

 Grin  

Humor and sarcasm hat on:

If the liberals want socialism, make sharecroppers out of them and let them have it.
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« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2005, 05:35:24 AM »

Hi JN,

Thanks for your reply!

Did you learn how to debate from Bill O'Reily?

I'm very sorry if you felt I was putting words in your mouth, and that was certainly not my intention.  My post was really more trying to clairify what you were getting at with a few of your comments.

I quite politely asked you to explain why you felt Canadians were apathetic.  This question came from your comment: "As far as Canada, New Zealand and other countries who are tipping the scales more to the socialist side, I do believe they are in decline.  Why?  Apathy."

I feel that this sentence (which you wrote) begets my question in quite a direct manner. So, when I asked you why you felt Canadians were apathetic, I really don't think I was putting words in your mouth, and hopefully, I've now shown you where you said it.

As far as the world view comment, I just foud your wholesale dismissal of the countires you mentioned in your post as being "apathetic" a shade presumptious, thats all.

I assure you that I am not too "liberally sensitive" to use your cute term (I hope that's not putting words in your mouth)  I look forward to continuing out discussion on this matter.

Cheers,

Jimmy
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« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2005, 05:41:09 AM »

PR,

Thanks for the reply!

I couldn't agree with you more.  When forms of hard-left socialism creep through the government doors, apathy, whatever we may take that to mean, often follows.

My problem with what Judge Not had to say about the topic, was that he lumped some very economically driven, and ambitious nations in whith his one fell swoop.

We would have had no quarell whatsoever, if the discussion had been centred around the former USSR or modern day China and Cuba.  It just seems as though the jump from free health care to apathy was made rather quickly and without precision.

Cheers,

Jimmy
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JudgeNot
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« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2005, 10:41:52 AM »

Hey Jimmy -
In true "O'Reily fashion"  Roll Eyes I'll concede the last word to you.  Lips Sealed

God bless,
JN
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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2005, 07:44:29 AM »

Well, I'm not one to give up the last word, (LOL!), and since I'm Canadian, I qualify, don't ya think?

The apathy in Canada is not so much from Socialism or the such. Although the general feeling with Canadians is, "Why bother? You can't win a fight with the government."

Mind you, there ARE pockets of resistance, and that will always be the case. But I can see why the apathy exists because you just have to look at how easily the same sex marriage bill passed.

In days of yore, everyone who calls himself Christian would have parked on the doorstep of 24 Sussex Drive, (that's where all Prime Ministers must live), and let Mr. Martin know what they think of this filthy abomination. Of course, that should also have happened back in the early 60s when they voted prayer out of the schools.

No, Canada's problem is not the type of government. Rather, it's the failure of Christians to make sure that Jesus was continually lifted up from the earth. If we hadda done that, we might still be truly called a Christian nation. Now, we have become as Sodom, and like unto Gomorrah. And I think we know what's coming next.....


« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 03:18:32 PM by ZakDar » Logged

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
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