Mt. Soledad

[nChrist]

Mt. Soledad Cross Needs to Stay Put, Says War Veteran

by Allie Martin
May 24, 2005

(AgapePress) - San Diego residents will have a chance to vote on the future of a war memorial that is one of the city's most recognizable landmarks.

During a special election in late July, voters in San Diego will be asked whether a cross and property known as the Mount Soledad War Memorial should be transferred to the federal government. The 43-foot-tall cross was built in 1952 to honor veterans of the Korean War. But nearly 16 years ago, a local military veteran, who is an atheist, sued the city, claiming the cross violated the Constitution.

Rod McDougal is a local pastor who is chaplain emeritus of VFW Post 2111. He says the cross should be allowed to stay.

"This is a historical landmark of our civilization [and a testimony to] what has happened in America over the last 200 years," McDougal explains. "When our country was formed, it was primarily formed by Christian preachers and businessmen who said 'We want a country that is Christian, where people can worship freely.'"

For that reason, the veteran says the battle for the cross is an important one. "This represents a historical landmark that we have been Christian [in this nation] and that we are going to be," he maintains. "[T]here are a handful of atheists and ACLU representatives who say 'Hey, it's not in the Constitution' -- well, they're wrong. The Constitution says there shall be no law against the establishment of worship and praising and ministering unto the Lord."

Last week the San Diego City Council voted to place on the July 26 ballot a measure that will ask voters if the cross and the property on which it stands should be deeded to the U.S. government, which could then designate it as a federal monument. (See earlier story)

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[JudgeNot]

The Mt. Soledad Cross...
   
 

To those who wish to hide or destroy this monument, may the Lord grant them the wisdom and understanding to enable them to see beyond their shortsightedness.

Why are they doing this?  It is because everytime they look upon the Mt. Soledad Cross they are reminded they are in danger of being lost, and in order to live for eternity they must acknowledge there is a presence in the universe "bigger" than they are.  "They" can never create their perfect socialistic “utopia on earth” until all vestiges of anything better (eternal Heaven!) are erased from all human minds.  

While it is the mission of each evangelical to proclaim Christ as the only Way, it is the mission of “them” to shut us up using any means necessary: lies, deceit, illusions, false prophecy, (the ACLU  ), false guilt through ‘political correctness’, public school policy, legalization of sin, etc., etc., etc.

Only satan himself is more selfish than the individuals who would purposely steal the ultimate symbol of the depth of God’s love from the vast majority who are comforted by its inspirational presence.  

jn

PS - Notice the tall fence around the base of the Cross.  It looks like a 'security' fence.  I wonder why it's there?

[nChrist]

JudgeNot,

Brother, thanks for the pictures. This is a beautiful monument, and I would quickly guess that the security fence is there to prevent people from defacing the cross.

I'm not optimistic that the devil will slow any attempts to shove anything related to God out of public view. However, I am somewhat optimistic with many recent reports that the ACLU is beginning to lose many cases. It puts a grin on my face every time I hear about an ACLU loss.

I think that the ACLU will lose the Mr. Soledad Cross case. There's just too much publicity about this case, so too many Christians know about it. The morons at the ACLU should also have known that every Veteran in the country, Christian or not, will associate the Cross fight with Military grave markers. The ACLU has lost this one - they just don't know it yet.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:32  He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

[Soldier4Christ]

I visited the Mt Soledad Cross many years ago when there was no fence. Many people climbed up on the base of the cross and it created problems of maintaining it. So I would venture to say that and the 15 or so yrs battle over this cross has placed it in danger of defacement.

You are right Beps, the cross is more than a religious symbol to many Veterans. Even those who are non-christian know about and have used the field cross to honor the war dead and mark a burial site.

[Tibby]

It is a WAR MONUMENT! Does no body respect our servicemen anymore?  

[nChrist]

Atheist Throws Legal Challenge at Wording of Mt. Soledad Cross Ballot Initiative

by James L. Lambert
June 3, 2005

(AgapePress) - James McElroy, the attorney for atheist Philip Paulson, has told five San Diego area personalities that he will file a legal challenge next week to the proposed wording of a July 26 City of San Diego ballot initiative. The initiative will determine the fate of the 43-foot cross located on city land atop Mt. Soledad in nearby La Jolla.

The area personalities identified in the threat include KFMB radio talk-show host Rick Roberts, KOGO radio talk-show host Roger Hedgecock, San Diego Padres baseball club announcer Jerry Coleman, Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham, and SoledadNational.com director Phil Thalmeimer. All five men recently signed off on the wording for the July 26 city-wide initiative.

McElroy claims that a number of their statements on the ballot are "false and misleading." Some statements at issue include, "as in the case with Mount Soledad, wherever veterans are honored with the symbols of the fallen, an intolerant few will launch frivolous lawsuits that waste our tax dollars ...." Another statement being challenged says, "in 2004, the President of the United States signed legislation designating the Mount Soledad site as a 'National War Memorial,' necessitating the land transfer." Other wording that will be legally challenged includes the sentence, "Vote Yes to transfer the land to the federal government and to permanently preserve Mount Soledad -- as it is where it is."

On Friday, Roberts indicated by phone that he and the others "will defend the wording in court." While there has been "a legal challenge against all five of us, I think we will prevail in court." Roberts stressed that this issue is important for those who want to preserve the heritage of San Diego, which includes the La Jolla cross. Donations for that cause are being taken by both radio announcers and at SoledadNational.com.

Roberts also appears as a regular stand-in for Michael Savage's nationally syndicated radio show, while Hedgecock substitutes for Rush Limbaugh occasionally. Coleman was recently elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame as a radio announcer. Induction ceremonies are to take place this summer.
AgapePress, is the author of Porn in America (Huntington House), which can be purchased through the American Family Association. He is a licensed real-estate mortgage loan sales agent and can be contacted through his website.

http://news.christiansunite.com/Religion_News/religion02817.shtml

Additional information on ChristiansUnite.com is available on the Internet at http://www.christiansunite.com/
Copyright © 2003 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.

[Tibby]

"as in the case with Mount Soledad, wherever veterans are honored with the symbols of the fallen, an intolerant few will launch frivolous lawsuits that waste our tax dollars ...."

"in 2004, the President of the United States signed legislation designating the Mount Soledad site as a 'National War Memorial,' necessitating the land transfer." e

"Vote Yes to transfer the land to the federal government and to permanently preserve Mount Soledad -- as it is where it is."

Wow, you're kidding! I need to write a fan letter to the writters of those ballots! I especially love the first one listed! That is great, truth in politics!

[Soldier4Christ]

Attorney LiMandri Contends Plaintiff Wants to Eradicate America's Religious Heritage

By James Lambert
October 7, 2005

(AgapePress) - Attorney Charles LiMandri presented arguments Monday in a San Diego Superior Court to appeal a decision by Judge Patricia Yim Cowett regarding a July city-wide vote that determined the fate of the Mt. Soledad Cross in La Jolla, California. In her August decision, Cowett invalidated the vote of 197,125 San Diegans who wanted to transfer the city land where the Mt. Soledad Cross is located to the federal government.

That vote (Proposition A) effectively sanctioned the transfer of the 51-year-old cross, the war memorial, and the land where it stands to the U.S. Department of the Interior to become a national war memorial. The Mt. Soledad Cross was constructed at its present site in 1954 to commemorate veterans of the Korean War. The proposition won by a 76% plurality.

As West Coast Director of the Thomas More Law Center, LiMandri was recently hired by the City to represent its cause, pro-bono, as a Special Deputy City Attorney in the case. LiMandri argued in court on Monday that Cowett’s ruling contradicts a past Supreme Court decision that indicates the party in question (the City of San Diego) has to be “entirely motivated by a purpose to advance religion.”

In his arguments LiMandri stated that “this court would have to find the entire California Constitution itself to be unconstitutional . That is because the preamble of the California constitution states: ‘We the people of the state of California, grateful to almighty God for our freedom, in order to secure and perpetrate its blessings, do establish this Constitution.’”

The lawyer also contends that if Judge Cowett “is inclined to consider evidence of statements made by individual lawmakers and private citizens to determine the constitutional purpose … then the Court should also consider the motives of those seeking to compel the City to remove the cross from the Mt. Soledad Memorial.”

In his Court-submitted brief LiMandri said that “it is only fair and reasonable for the Court to be apprised of the anti-Christian motives of [the] Plaintiff” (Philip Paulson). Paulson along with attorney James McElroy have been seeking the removal of the historic Cross for over 16 years. McElroy has close ties to the American Civil Liberties Union and serves as director of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

LiMandri's brief provides a quote from Paulson given on May 3, 2005: “[W]e need to make a full attack on Jesus… ‘A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord …’ Well according to the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ was a bastard and a rape baby. After all, the christian god the father raped the Virgin Mary when she was only 13 years of age, and then the all-knowing and all-powerful god became a dead-beat dad who later set up his own bastard son’s execution.”

The brief further notes that “such hateful statements attacking the most sacred and profoundly held beliefs of a great many people in this county, reveal the Plaintiff’s deep hostility towards Christianity.” LiMandri summarizes by saying that this case “represents a classic example of the tyranny of a tiny minority, whereby those few decidedly anti-Christian and Anti-American purposes are trying to use the courts to promote overt hostility toward religion.”

All sides believe the Judge will not change her July decision that effectively nullified the vote of over 197,000 voters. The decision is expected soon, and once it is finalized, LiMandri is planning further appeals. Ultimately, the Thomas More Center lawyer says he believes the case of the Mt. Soledad Cross is headed for the Supreme Court.

[Soldier4Christ]

Most Christians knew the truth behind this but now there is written proof of what is behind this battle.


______________


By Allie Martin and Jenni Parker
October 12, 2005

(AgapePress) - An attorney with the Thomas More Law Center says comments by an atheist involved in the battle over a veterans memorial in California show that the fight is not about the Constitution but instead is all about attacking Christianity.

For more than 15 years now, atheist Philip Paulson has said he wanted to maintain neutrality between the government and religion. That, he claims, is why he has waged a legal battle to have a 43-foot cross removed from atop Mount Soledad in San Diego, California, where the cross stands as part of a memorial to American war veterans.

However, comments attributed to Paulson were recently discovered on the website of the Atheist Coalition of San Diego -- comments that a lawyer representing the city in its 16-year fight to keep the Mt. Soledad cross in place believes reveal much about what is driving one man's war against the Christian symbol central to local landmark and war memorial.

Charles LiMandri of the Thomas More Law Center says he had someone investigate to find out what Paulson has been saying behind the scenes and the atheist combatant "has just said some phenomenally shocking things" in reference to Christianity. "I don't know if you want me to repeat it or not," the attorney cautions, "because I don't want to offend."

But according to his sources, LiMandri says Paulson has called for "a full-out attack on Jesus" and "takes these basic truths that we accept as the revelation of God and just drags them through the mud." The atheist's reported comments allegedly included crude references to Jesus, God, and Mary, and the Christian lawyer claims to have other documents that detail the man's vehement hostility toward Christianity.

"People need to know what we're dealing with," the attorney says, "because most atheists that you would talk to don't care about religious symbols on public property. It doesn't really mean anything to them. They'll look at the cross or they'll look at the Ten Commandments and they'll say, 'Well, I don't believe in that, but if someone else does, fine.'"

But then, LiMandri adds, there are people like Phil Paulson who, in his singular hostility towards Christianity, "is a very small minority -- pretty much a minority of one." The Thomas More Law Center representative says people like Paulson apparently "believe they just hate God, and they're out to hurt him to the extent that they can eradicate his presence entirely from the public square."

An Embattled Emblem's Controversy Continues

The Mt. Soledad cross has been challenged as a violation of the California Constitution, which document prohibits the display of religious symbols on state land. Last November, voters rejected a ballot initiative that would have authorized sale of the land to a private entity, and the measure was defeated amid widespread confusion over its wording.

Then, in May, after a massive signature-gathering effort by supporters of the Mt. Soledad cross, San Diego's City Council agreed to allow a measure called Proposition A on a July special election mayoral ballot. That measure proposed a handover of the land on which the Mt. Soledad veterans memorial stands to the U.S. Department of the Interior, which would make the property federal land, federal laws being less restrictive than California's state code.

In the July election, an overwhelming 76 percent of the voters approved the transfer. However, according to a FOX News report, San Diego City Attorney Michael Aguirre told local press that transferring the cross from the city to the federal government would be unconstitutional if done primarily to preserve a religious symbol.

Opponents of the cross filed lawsuits, arguing that Proposition A was illegal and, last week, San Diego County Superior Court Judge Patricia Yim Cowett agreed. In her ruling, the judge said the claim that the Mt. Soledad cross is a military memorial to be saved as a landmark is "a sham."

[Soldier4Christ]

Ruling on a 15-year-old ACLU case, a federal judge today ordered the city of San Diego to remove a mountain-top cross within 90 days or face a fine of $5,000 a day.

U.S. District Judge Gordon Thompson said, "It is now time, and perhaps long overdue, for this court to enforce its initial permanent injunction forbidding the presence of the Mount Soledad cross on city property," the San Diego Union-Tribune reported.

Thompson ruled in 1991 the Mount Soledad cross violates the so-called "separation of church and state" but the case has remained in courts and become an issue of public policy for more than a decade.

ACLU lawyer James McElroy believes San Diego officials finally will give up their fight.

"I don't think the city has its heart in taking more action," he said, according to the paper.

A city lawyer argued during the hour-long court hearing today that citizens had voted for transfer of the land under the cross.

Proposition A, passed by 75 percent in July, called for the city to donate the cross to the federal government as the centerpiece of a veterans memorial.

The ballot initiative came about after the city refused to donate the cross and memorial to the federal government. A group called San Diegans for the Mount Soledad National War Memorial took just 23 days to gather 105,000 signatures.

In a ruling now on appeal, however, a Superior Court judge found the transfer unconstitutional.

The Union-Tribune said the group behind the public vote on transfer likely will appeal Thompson's decision.

The 29-foot cross has stood on Mount Soledad as the center of a war memorial on city land since 1954. The first cross on the site was built in 1913.

A bill authorizing the federal government to take over the memorial was authored by Republican U.S. Reps. Duncan Hunter and Randy Cunningham. President Bush signed the bill into law in December.

Responding to today's ruling, Mayor Jerry Sanders said he would recommend the city council and city attorney take action to save the cross.

The battle began in 1989 when Phillip Paulsen, an atheist, filed suit, and a court ordered the city to remove the cross. In 1998, the city sold the property to the Mt. Soledad War Memorial Association, which again was challenged in court. The sale originally was upheld but later ruled unconstitutional by the full panel of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco and remanded back to district court to work out a remedy.

During its brief period of ownership, the Memorial Association made significant improvements, including extensive landscaping and the addition of more than 3,000 plaques honoring military veterans.

[Soldier4Christ]

ACLU Wins Removal of Mount Soledad Cross

US District Judge Gordon Thompson Jr. told the City of San Diego on Wednesday to either remove a Christian war memorial cross from Mount Soledad within 90 days or pay $5,000 per day fine, thereafter. Judge Thompson had already sided with the ACLU, in his original 1991 decision, that the cross was unconstitutional. Since then, his decision has been in appeal.

Backed by the ACLU, San Diego atheist Philip Paulson filed the original suit to remove the cross, asserting that it violated California’s constitutional provision of separation of church and state, in 1989. The California courts also rejected a plan to sell the property to a private interest, so that the cross could remain, and the US Supreme Court refused to hear the case in 2003.

The San Diego Union-Tribune quotes San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders as having said: “Seventy-five percent of the voters said they thought it was extremely important. I think we need to go to an appeal.”

A ballot measure, Proposition A, to transfer ownership of the cross from the city to the federal government was voted on and passed by 76% of San Diego voters in July. President Bush had also signed a bill authorizing the federal government to assume responsibility for the Mount Soledad National War Memorial. However, a San Diego Superior Court judge ignored the voters and ruled it unconstitutional.

Chris Clark, pastor of East Clairemont Southern Baptist Church commented: “We were disappointed in the fact that he would not allow that to run its course before he would go and issue this order to have the cross taken down. But, all things considered, it’s not altogether surprising since he was the one that made the original ruling in 1991 that the cross was unconstitutional.”

[Shammu]

However, a San Diego Superior Court judge ignored the voters and ruled it unconstitutional.

Then that judge is breaking the law, voted by the people for the people. That fool, needs to be voted out of office. And held responsable, to the people for ignoring the people.

[Soldier4Christ]

Sign The Petition To Save Mt. Soledad Cross

Help the ACLJ stop the ACLU from re-writting our history.

    Stop the ACLU!

    The ACLU has done it again. In their campaign to rid our country of every vestige of God and Christianity, they have convinced a federal judge to order the removal of a cross from San Diego’s Mount Soledad memorial to heroes of the Korean War. We must fight back to save this religious symbol from demolition! Please read the form carefully and declare your membership with the ACLJ by signing the Petition below.

    Petition to Save San Diego’s Mount Soledad Cross

    President George W. Bush
    Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger of California
    Mayor Jerry Sanders of San Diego
    U.S. Senate Leadership
    San Diego City Council

    The federal court’s ruling that the cross on San Diego’s Mount Soledad must be immediately removed is an abomination and an affront to God-fearing Americans everywhere. We understand the ACLU is behind this unprecedented effort to remove the cross that has been in place, in one form or another, for nearly 100 years. The cross is part of a war memorial honoring the men and women who gave their lives to defend our freedoms as a nation.

    We urge you today to take whatever action is necessary to save the Cross. We cannot allow the ACLU to re-write history and strip our nation of the symbols that have long been an important part of our heritage. Please put the full extent of your power to bear to stop this ruling in its tracks and save the Cross at Mount Soledad.

https://www.aclj.org/Petition/Default.aspx?SC=3163&AC=1

[Shammu]

I have signed brother, would you mind if I posted this link on another forum?

[Soldier4Christ]

By all means brother but you needn't ask me for permission on the link. It is to the ACLJ.