Ambassador4Christ, AllinAll, and Brother Love:
How does your view fit in with Ezekiel 33:12-20, and John 15:5-10?
I have asked for an explaination of this in other threads, and still has not been addressed.
asaph referred to a little out of John 15, yet nobody offered and explaination to what that scripture was saying. Please offer me your explaination of both scriptures I mentioned above. I look forward to hearing from you.
God bless.
everyday newborn,
You skirted my question...
You understand perfectly what I have asked you...
If Your salvation is based on something you did, or claim to have done, then Gods work is not 100 %.
If Gods salvation is not 100% His work in you, then this is why you can never be assured of "eternal security", because that security is in something you must do, to keep it, and you know eventually you won't do.........and lose your gift..
This is why you ask the question, you do...
Ezekiel 33, is written to the Jews who were under the OT Law of Moses, the Covenant has been abolished even the law of commandments contained in ordinances, by Jesus in his flesh. (Eph 2:15)
John 15:5-10, is not a difficult passage, the key is knowing something about the vine and the vinedresser of the vine of which He (Jesus) is speaking of.
I say read the passage very carefully, then visualize what is being said, using mental imagery, this is what helped me understand this passage of scripture, it is not a tough one to understand, of course one must possess the Holy Spirit and pray for understanding.
I will give you some key things which will help you to get started.
The passage Jesus is speaking of is actually Jhn 15:1-6.
The vine being referred to herein is a creeping climbing plant that produces melons, cucumbers, or grapes which I am sure people in that day, He spoke these words were familiar with.
The vine in view herein is probably the Grape vine, because the branchs burn.......
And here, He referred to himself as the vine (the Plant itself), symbolically in the OT, the vine refferred to Israel.
Ok, this is what you need to understand, Jesus referres to
himself as the Vine, and His Father as the Vinedresser (vs 1),
His Father prunes, tends and cares for the wellbeing of the Vine, every branch which does not bare fruit He takes away, the branch that bares fruit He prunes, so that it might bare more fruit (vs 2), you need to examine what this might mean, but consider this in the light of what happens to the branches which produce much fruit, after the fruit is removed, and the branch withers and dies, He (the Vinedresser) takes them away also, as part of the care and maintenance of the vine.
What might this mean??
At verse 3, He makes it clear that everyone who is washed by the word (Titus 3:5-7) is cleansed or clean (speaking of the stain of sin) which is preached, this is where Jesus makes the connection that the branches represent men. Some abide in Him, some do not.
Vs 4, Abide in me, is an exhortation
found throughout the NT, for those who are saved to live in Jesus, and to separate themselves from sin, the call is to live, a Holy Life, if any sin
"we have an advocate with the Father (the vinedresser), Jesus Christ the righteous" (1 Jhn 2:1),
It is presumed all believers understand they are saved because of His (Jesus) righteousness not our own (Rom 4:6, 5:18, 6:16) *see what Paul says about the righteoiusness which he trusted in at Phil 3:8-9.
Now notice verse 5, Those who abide in Him, Jesus says;
bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.Now verse 6, is the verse which causes problems for many, and where the difficult to understand portion of this passage begins, but it really isn't; on the surface it appears to teach that any branch that is cut off and cast away is likened to a man that was abiding in Jesus, and then because he no longer abides in Him, he is cut off; This then is developed by some who teach doctrinal erorrs into a "lose your salvation doctrine".
But, if you read the verse very carefully, this is not what it says at all, in fact in examining it carefully there is nothing said about pruning nor cutting off a branch.
In any real vine, branches wither and die, naturally.......
It simply says;
If a man abide not in me,[/b[ he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.Any man that does not abide in Jesus, (does not belong to Him) is not a branch of this vine of which He is. This is what is being said, herein.
So you see, these verses do NOT TEACH, a man which abides in Jesus, loses his salvation, it simply says that those who do not abide in Him,
is cast forth as a branch, and withers and dies, and is burned........
One has to stretch what is written to make it says, that any
MAN that does not abide in Him,
used to be like a branch that did at one time, but doesn't know. Beware of FALSE, teachers...................I wouldn't put alot of faith in anything asaph....said.
But my question to you is, whose righteousness do you trust in??
And do you believe What the Lord says about His salvation He gives to men.
Isa 51
6 Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but
my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.
8 For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and
my salvation from generation to generation.Blessings,
Petro
