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| | |-+  The Role of the Church - offense or defense?
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Author Topic: The Role of the Church - offense or defense?  (Read 3455 times)
MalkyEL
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« on: February 18, 2005, 07:10:06 PM »

What is the function of the church - to equip the saints or to keep them at arms length from the world?

A brief comment to clarify.

Generally speaking, I have noticed that the church seems to more interested in spending time in the locker room than on the field playing the game  Cool

shalom, nana

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2005, 12:52:46 AM »

It is necessary to maintain an even balance. To equip the members of the body to deal with the world and in preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the world yet to keep them from being a part of the world.

I agree that most want to be "safe" and "comfortable" by staying in the locker room. This does not get the Word of God out to those that need it the most.


Mar 16:15  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

 
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2005, 11:42:00 AM »

Equipping the saints - when they are to be found, yes.  I would like more training.  I would like to be at regular practice too and all the games.  Those not able to play on the mission fields could stand and cheer with prayer on the side lines.

Churches need to educate in the scripture and equip people to go out into the world and do good works.  Churches should be sending out missionaries at home, within their own areas and abroad.

Keeping the church members at an arm length from the world?

 Are you referring to churchs that have membership rules?? such as  church members must: be baptized in that particular church or denomination/alliance,  must show proof of tithing, must not be divorced or remarried after divorce, must not go to theatres, must not drink, must wear particular style of clothing, must not celebrate Christmas with a decorated tree and ad naseaum...... This rules are meant to make their church look outwardly good but there is still sin within the walls:  jealousy, anger, secret sins.   It is more like wanting to have a private social club.  They want to keep certain types of people out.    

I see asking a person to leave a church when they are repeatedly causing problems such as harassing members, teaching false doctrines... etc.  

Christians should be able to make their own homes havens against the world's sin.  Only what is the extreme where Christians will have nothing to do with non-believers?  This might include not using public schools, going to churches they consider less than perfect, not associating with neighbours and even family unless they too are the same particular brand of believer.  

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2005, 12:08:58 PM »

Quote
It is more like wanting to have a private social club.  They want to keep certain types of people out.    


This is exactly what I was meaning. There is a line to be drawn here. We must not keep those out that need to hear the word of God but at the same time we must not allow those individuals to denigrate the delivery of the Word of God either.


A social club is not the intention that God has for His churches. One example that I can give is one that I am dealing with now. One certain family is the majority at this one church. They have placed a member of their family as a youth pastor. This youth pastor has not had any formal training and doesn't even hold a GED let alone any other training other than what was given by the family. Yet this individual is publicly putting down kids fro not going to church.

Our church leaders must lead by example not with the "do as I say and not as I do attitude". Just because they are a family member of the majority of the church members does not make them qualified for the position.



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MalkyEL
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2005, 12:42:14 PM »

If the church is supposed to be equipping the saints to stand, armed with God's armour, and to be a witness to the gospel - however God calls one to do that - I am wondering how the church, as it is today, fulfills that mandate?

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felix102
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2005, 05:27:05 PM »

Brothers and Sisters, this is how the Church should be:

2 tim 2:22
"pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

In The Church we are all pursuing righteouness, faith, love and peace WITH those who call on the Lord out of a PURE HEART.

In local churches today there are many people who go there to socialize, play games, gossip...they are not calling out to the Lord with a pure heart. That is something we must do.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.


The local church can be just 2 people or 2000 people. Any persons gathered in the Name of Jesus there Jesus will be.


And when we have gathered together we share these things...

1 Corinthians 14:26
When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.


Notice EVERYONE has something. And ALL OF THESE MUST -MUST MUST MUST- be done for the strengthening of the church.



Why is it that people feel going to church is a chore? I tell you this thing...people are more concerned about numbers in church that they resort to worldly things to keep these people in church. "I dont want to go to church to listen to some boring sermon but I'm going to dress real nice so i could attract some guys" or "i want to show-off my new jewlery and make my friends jeolous" or "i can't wait to sing this new awesome hymn and show-off my skills on my guitar."

Jesus is simply not the focus. Even though He is being talked about the hearts of the people are not found there. It's a facade. It's just a show. And once you take away the worldly things then they won't have a reason to go to church. What are we to do?

Set your heart's focus on Christ and Christ alone. I am going to church to worship God in Spirit and in truth. Not with my body or mind or in deceit and fakeness. When you sing you sing not to sound good to people but to God. You sing TO God. When you preach you preach not to sound eloquent or good but you preach to please God. You preach by speaking from God.

We drink from the same Spirit.

I'm not saying that these things are bad. But these things are not the reason you go to church.




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cris
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2005, 05:41:47 PM »

Brothers and Sisters, this is how the Church should be:

2 tim 2:22
"pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

In The Church we are all pursuing righteouness, faith, love and peace WITH those who call on the Lord out of a PURE HEART.

In local churches today there are many people who go there to socialize, play games, gossip...they are not calling out to the Lord with a pure heart. That is something we must do.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.


The local church can be just 2 people or 2000 people. Any persons gathered in the Name of Jesus there Jesus will be.


And when we have gathered together we share these things...

1 Corinthians 14:26
When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.


Notice EVERYONE has something. And ALL OF THESE MUST -MUST MUST MUST- be done for the strengthening of the church.



Why is it that people feel going to church is a chore? I tell you this thing...people are more concerned about numbers in church that they resort to worldly things to keep these people in church. "I dont want to go to church to listen to some boring sermon but I'm going to dress real nice so i could attract some guys" or "i want to show-off my new jewlery and make my friends jeolous" or "i can't wait to sing this new awesome hymn and show-off my skills on my guitar."

Jesus is simply not the focus. Even though He is being talked about the hearts of the people are not found there. It's a facade. It's just a show. And once you take away the worldly things then they won't have a reason to go to church. What are we to do?

Set your heart's focus on Christ and Christ alone. I am going to church to worship God in Spirit and in truth. Not with my body or mind or in deceit and fakeness. When you sing you sing not to sound good to people but to God. You sing TO God. When you preach you preach not to sound eloquent or good but you preach to please God. You preach by speaking from God.

We drink from the same Spirit.

I'm not saying that these things are bad. But these things are not the reason you go to church.







AMEN Felix 102!!!

Now, we know what the church should be, so why aren't they?  What can be done to bring them back?  For sure, there needs be REFORM. Lips Sealed almost. Grin

Grace and peace,
cris

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2005, 06:14:55 PM »

Brothers and Sisters, this is how the Church should be:

2 tim 2:22
"pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart."

In The Church we are all pursuing righteouness, faith, love and peace WITH those who call on the Lord out of a PURE HEART.

In local churches today there are many people who go there to socialize, play games, gossip...they are not calling out to the Lord with a pure heart. That is something we must do.

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them.


The local church can be just 2 people or 2000 people. Any persons gathered in the Name of Jesus there Jesus will be.


And when we have gathered together we share these things...

1 Corinthians 14:26
When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.


Notice EVERYONE has something. And ALL OF THESE MUST -MUST MUST MUST- be done for the strengthening of the church.



Why is it that people feel going to church is a chore? I tell you this thing...people are more concerned about numbers in church that they resort to worldly things to keep these people in church. "I dont want to go to church to listen to some boring sermon but I'm going to dress real nice so i could attract some guys" or "i want to show-off my new jewlery and make my friends jeolous" or "i can't wait to sing this new awesome hymn and show-off my skills on my guitar."

Jesus is simply not the focus. Even though He is being talked about the hearts of the people are not found there. It's a facade. It's just a show. And once you take away the worldly things then they won't have a reason to go to church. What are we to do?

Set your heart's focus on Christ and Christ alone. I am going to church to worship God in Spirit and in truth. Not with my body or mind or in deceit and fakeness. When you sing you sing not to sound good to people but to God. You sing TO God. When you preach you preach not to sound eloquent or good but you preach to please God. You preach by speaking from God.

We drink from the same Spirit.

I'm not saying that these things are bad. But these things are not the reason you go to church.







AMEN Felix 102!!!

Now, we know what the church should be, so why aren't they?  What can be done to bring them back?  For sure, there needs be REFORM. Lips Sealed almost. Grin

Grace and peace,
cris




Each and every one of us that realise this   must    must      must     do our part to bring things back to where they should be. To realise that it is a pleasure to serve the Lord, to set our eyes on Him and then to se4rve Him with a pure and simple heart. If you are not in a position to preach or teach this to others then lead by example.

Prayer for the others that do not realise this is also in order.

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cris
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2005, 06:30:07 PM »


PR said:

"Prayers for others who do not realize this are also in order."


AMEN Pastor Roger



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M
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2005, 07:29:51 PM »

For equipping the saints for work,  I think many churches could benefit from offering a variety of Bible study groups/classes on different subjects and at different levels.  I often have questions myself about the scriptures and meet many who have many questions about Christian beliefs.  They would go to a Bible study but it is difficult to offer one that most people would attend.  If small groups could meet to study, some of the more advanced students could teach the others.  Sometimes this is known as the "cell" version of church building.  

My church is 40 miles away.  I can only attend  services on Sundays.  I don't have transportation to go to meetings or Bible studies during the week.  I would love to walk over to a local church (not my denomination) and attend a Bible study or fellowship group there.  I am not sure I would be welcomed.  For one reason is that I am not prepared to financially offer any support to that church.  So would I be welcome?  Even if someone from a local church started a Bible study in their home, I might go.  So how do churches feel about someone using their resources and not contributing?

 I am really tired of people telling me there is a really good Bible course being offered at the university but the registration cost is $150.  I can't afford it.  Why can't the Good News be free?  I can understand charging for a credit course but all the eldership/leadership courses offered by my denomination are for a fee and the students must be recommended by the congregation.  There really isn't much else offered.  
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M
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2005, 07:30:33 PM »

For equipping the saints for work,  I think many churches could benefit from offering a variety of Bible study groups/classes on different subjects and at different levels.  I often have questions myself about the scriptures and meet many who have many questions about Christian beliefs.  They would go to a Bible study but it is difficult to offer one that most people would attend.  If small groups could meet to study, some of the more advanced students could teach the others.  Sometimes this is known as the "cell" version of church building.  

My church is 40 miles away.  I can only attend  services on Sundays.  I don't have transportation to go to meetings or Bible studies during the week.  I would love to walk over to a local church (not my denomination) and attend a Bible study or fellowship group there.  I am not sure I would be welcomed.  For one reason is that I am not prepared to financially offer any support to that church.  So would I be welcome?  Even if someone from a local church started a Bible study in their home, I might go.  So how do churches feel about someone using their resources and not contributing?

 I am really tired of people telling me there is a really good Bible course being offered at the university but the registration cost is $150.  I can't afford it.  Why can't the Good News be free?  I can understand charging for a credit course but all the eldership/leadership courses offered by my denomination are for a fee and the students must be recommended by the congregation.  There really isn't much else offered.  
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cris
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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2005, 07:56:30 PM »

For equipping the saints for work,  I think many churches could benefit from offering a variety of Bible study groups/classes on different subjects and at different levels.  I often have questions myself about the scriptures and meet many who have many questions about Christian beliefs.  They would go to a Bible study but it is difficult to offer one that most people would attend.  If small groups could meet to study, some of the more advanced students could teach the others.  Sometimes this is known as the "cell" version of church building.  

My church is 40 miles away.  I can only attend  services on Sundays.  I don't have transportation to go to meetings or Bible studies during the week.  I would love to walk over to a local church (not my denomination) and attend a Bible study or fellowship group there.  I am not sure I would be welcomed.  For one reason is that I am not prepared to financially offer any support to that church.  So would I be welcome?  Even if someone from a local church started a Bible study in their home, I might go.  So how do churches feel about someone using their resources and not contributing?

 I am really tired of people telling me there is a really good Bible course being offered at the university but the registration cost is $150.  I can't afford it.  Why can't the Good News be free?  I can understand charging for a credit course but all the eldership/leadership courses offered by my denomination are for a fee and the students must be recommended by the congregation.  There really isn't much else offered.  



M,

Have you ever thought of changing denominations?  Have you ever thought of not changing denominations but visiting a church closer to your home on Sunday's, just for awhile, to enable yourself to attend their bible study without feeling like you aren't contributing.  

I have no idea where you live or what's available in your area, so I'm just offering advice based on that lack of info.

I have seen signs (not recently) in my area that say, "Bible Study on such and such a day and time.  Everyone welcome."
You might also call around to different churches (anonymously), tell them the situation and see what they say.  If you're sensitive, you can get a good feel whether or not they mean what they say.

Grace and peace,
cris



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MalkyEL
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« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2005, 09:14:19 PM »

Is the church those who gather in brick buildings, or those who are spiritually united - and I don't mean ecumenical unity - I mean on the same page spiritually  Grin?

Why do you believe that going to, finding a, being part of the institutional church is considered "do not forsake assembling together?

shalom, nana
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MalkyEL
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2005, 09:18:38 PM »

Quote:
Each and every one of us that realise this  must    must      must    do our part to bring things back to where they should be. To realise that it is a pleasure to serve the Lord, to set our eyes on Him and then to se4rve Him with a pure and simple heart. If you are not in a position to preach or teach this to others then lead by example.

nana:
I am puzzled as to why this doctrine permeates Christianity - that the church will somehow rise in significance and glory in this age - "where they should be".  Can someone provide scriptural proof of this?

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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2005, 10:17:51 PM »

Quote:
Each and every one of us that realise this  must    must      must    do our part to bring things back to where they should be. To realise that it is a pleasure to serve the Lord, to set our eyes on Him and then to se4rve Him with a pure and simple heart. If you are not in a position to preach or teach this to others then lead by example.

nana:
I am puzzled as to why this doctrine permeates Christianity - that the church will somehow rise in significance and glory in this age - "where they should be".  Can someone provide scriptural proof of this?



MalkyEL,

When I read your post above, the first thought that came to mind was this: "Where two or more are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst."

Grace and peace,
cris

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