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Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
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Topic: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution (Read 338949 times)
Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #495 on:
July 15, 2006, 12:39:41 PM »
Under the pressure of nothing buttery, though, scientists attempt to explain the exquisite hierarchies of life and knowledge through the flat workings of physics and chemistry alone. Information theory says this isn’t possible if there’s just one universe, and an earth that existed for only 400 million years before the emergence of cells. But if there are infinite numbers of universes all randomly tossing the dice, absolutely anything is possible. The Peers perform a prestidigitory shuffle of the cosmoses and place themselves, by the “anthropic principle,” in a privileged universe where life prevails on Darwinian terms. The Peers save the random mutations of nothing buttery by rendering all science arbitrary and stochastic.
Science still falls far short of developing satisfactory explanations of many crucial phenomena, such as human consciousness, the Big Bang, the superluminal quantum entanglement of photons across huge distances, even the bioenergetics of the brain of a fly in eluding the swatter. The more we learn about the universe the more wide-open the horizons of mystery. The pretense that Darwinian evolution is a complete theory of life is a huge distraction from the limits and language, the rigor and grandeur, of real scientific discovery. Observes Nobel-laureate physicist Robert Laughlin of Stanford: “The Darwinian theory has become an all-purpose obstacle to thought rather than an enabler of scientific advance.”
In the 21st century, the word — by any name — is primary. Just as in Crick’s Central Dogma ordaining the precedence of DNA over proteins, however, the word itself is not the summit of the hierarchy. Everywhere we encounter information, it does not bubble up from a random flux or prebiotic soup. It comes from mind. Taking the hierarchy beyond the word, the central dogma of intelligent design ordains that word is subordinate to mind. Mind can generate and lend meaning to words, but words in themselves cannot generate mind or intelligence.
Retorts the molecular biologist: Surely the information in DNA generates mind all the time, when it gives the instructions to map the amino acids into the cells of the brain? Here, however, intercedes the central dogma of the theory of intelligent design, which bars all “magical” proteins that morph into data, all “uppity” atoms transfigured as bits, all “miracles” of upstream influence. DNA can inform the creation of a brain, but a brain as an aggregation of proteins cannot generate the information in DNA. Wherever there is information, there is a preceding intelligence.
At the dawn of information theory in 1948, MIT cybernetician and Shannon rival Norbert Weiner defined the new crisis of materialism: “The mechanical brain does not secrete thought ‘as the liver does bile,’ as the earlier materialists claimed, nor does it put it out in the form of energy as the muscle puts out its activity. Information is information, not matter or energy. No materialism that does not admit this can survive at the present day.”
This constraint on the Munchausen men of the materialist superstition is a hard truth, but it is a truth nonetheless. The hierarchies of life do not stop at the word, or at the brain. The universe of knowledge does not close down to a molecular point. It opens up infinitely in all directions. Superior even to the word are the mind and the meaning, the will and the way. Intelligent people bow their heads before this higher power, which still remains inexorably beyond the reach of science.
Throughout the history of human thought, it has been convenient and inspirational to designate the summit of the hierarchy as God. While it is not necessary for science to use this term, it is important for scientists to grasp the hierarchical reality it signifies. Transcending its materialist trap, science must look up from the ever dimmer reaches of its Darwinian pit and cast its imagination toward the word and its sources: idea and meaning, mind and mystery, the will and the way. It must eschew reductionism — except as a methodological tool — and adopt an aspirational imagination. Though this new aim may seem blinding at first, it is ultimately redemptive because it is the only way that science can ever hope to solve the grand challenge problems before it, such as gravity, entanglement, quantum computing, time, space, mass, and mind. Accepting hierarchy, the explorer embarks on an adventure that leads to an ever deeper understanding of life and consciousness, cosmos and creation.
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #496 on:
July 15, 2006, 12:43:58 PM »
Explain Evolution's Weakness
Recently, the state of South Carolina joined Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Kansas and New Mexico by approving statewide science standards which require a critical analysis of evolution in science classrooms. In these five states the standard-issue Darwinian evolution will still be taught, but with an interesting twist which ought to raise some eyebrows - the scientific WEAKNESSES of Darwinian theory will ALSO be disclosed.
In a country where ideals such as free speech, diversity, balance and tolerance are preached constantly, the remaining states DO NOT ALLOW the scientific weaknesses of Darwinian evolution to be presented in our public school science classrooms. This means that, in the state of Oregon (and 44 others) Darwinian evolution is taught as sheer dogma - scientific weaknesses are withheld from our students and Darwinian evolution is presented as a theory of origins that is incontrovertible.
It is important to note that of the aforementioned five states, precisely NONE has required that opposing theories of origins, such as Intelligent Design, be included in the state's science curricula. The standards adopted in those states require ONLY an objective presentation of the strengths AND weaknesses of evolutionary theory. It's important to scrutinize the media's reporting on this point because as these states have come forward, reporters have repeatedly spun the decisions as victories for Intelligent Design, as though Intelligent Design had some relevance in the decision and as though ID will be taught in these five states as a result. Yet nothing is further from the truth - there is no language in these five states' science standards which requires - or even allows - the teaching of Intelligent Design or any other competing theory.
Of course, the decisions in these five states raise an important question for the rest of us: Should our public schools continue to present only evidence which supports evolution, or should they also teach students about the evidences against evolution?
If one believes we should continue to conceal the evidence against evolution, one must answer some very tough questions: What good can possibly come from withholding scientific evidence against ANY scientific theory? How does that not undermine the integrity of science itself? Isn't scientific experimentation and discovery supposed to be transparent? How is it fair to our children to withhold this evidence?
If, on the other hand, one believes our students SHOULD be taught about the evidences against evolution, then another set of interesting questions is raised: Why has it taken so long for just five states to adopt standards which require nothing more than an objective presentation of evolutionary theory in the classroom? What are evolutionists protecting? What is the rationale for having withheld this evidence and deceived so many students for so many years?
When considering whether to "teach the controversy," it's useful to cite an article published in The Guardian in September 2005 and written by renowned evolutionists Richard Dawkins and Jerry Coyne in which they conceded that "asking our students to analyze controversies is of enormous value to their education." Despite this, their column justifies ignoring this particular controversy and hiding it from their students on the basis that evolutionary science itself is, in their words, "bountifully endowed with genuine controversy." Apparently Dawkins and Coyne think that the persistence of controversy within evolutionary theory somehow makes the theory more robust. They are unwilling to consider the possibility that the theory they peddle is filled with controversy because it is fundamentally flawed; so flawed that biologists have had to scramble for inventive (but contradictory) schemes to keep the theory alive. But what's more important is that when it serves their purpose, Dawkins and Coyne are clearly willing to rob their students of what they themselves admit is valuable to students' education: exposure to controversial views.
The extent to which we present evolution dogmatically is the extent to which we lie to students. Opposing critical analysis of evolution in public schools is tantamount to advocating the intentional deception of children. Conversely, advocating that Darwinian evolution be taught objectively in the classroom will challenge students to think critically about the theory and will provoke curiosity and interest in science.
Perhaps what frightens Darwinists most about the critical analysis standards adopted in those five states is that presenting these evidences will make it all too obvious that the success enjoyed up to now by the Darwinian paradigm has come not from the strength of Darwinian ideas, but from of the Darwinists' ability to obfuscate the evidences which would refute their theory.
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #497 on:
July 15, 2006, 07:18:41 PM »
THE EARTH AND THE UNIVERSE
1-BIBLICAL FACTS ON ASTRONOMY NOW PROVEN TO BE TRUE
Throughout much of the world’s history, people thought that the world was flat. Yet thousands of years ago, the Bible showed it was round. The Bible was right, people were wrong.
Isa 40:22-IT IS HE THAT SITTETH UPON THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH.
In former times, people did not understand that the earth "hung" in space. Yet thousands of years ago, the Bible showed it did. The Bible was right, people were wrong.
Job 26:7-HE…HANGETH THE EARTH UPON NOTHING.
In the past, science did not fully comprehend that the moon and stars had orbits, or established rules or ordinances. Yet thousands of years ago, the Bible showed that they did. The Bible was right, science was wrong.
Jere 31:35-THE ORDINANCES (or decrees, or fixed order) OF THE MOON AND OF THE STARS.
Job 38:33-KNOWEST THOU THE ORDINANCES (or fixed order) OF HEAVEN?
The Bible further told, thousands of years ago, that planets existed.
2 Ki 23:5-TO THE SUN, AND TO THE MOON, AND TO THE PLANETS, AND TO ALL THE HOST OF HEAVEN.
In recent history, people have been misled by "science, falsely so called," into believing that evolution is how mankind came into being. Shortly, once again, people will be proven wrong, and the Bible shown to be true.
It is written, to this age in which we are now living, Rev 3:14-AND UNTO THE ANGEL OF THE CHURCH OF THE LAODICEANS WRITE; THESE THINGS SAITH THE AMEN, THE FAITHFUL AND TRUE WITNESS, THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION OF GOD. Col 1:16-FOR BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, THAT ARE IN HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, WHETHER THEY BE THRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM.
God’s Word is true. People would do well to take heed to what is written—to believe it and obey it.
2-BIBLICAL FACTS ABOUT NATURE NOW PROVEN TO BE TRUE
(God’s established order)
It has recently been learned that the eagle could see very small objects from great distances. Yet thousands of years ago, the Bible told of this.
Job 39:27,29-THE EAGLE…SHE SEEKETH THE PREY, AND HER EYES BEHOLD AFAR OFF.
Throughout much of the world’s history, people did not understand that even the wind has weight. Science is now aware that this is true. The Bible told of this thousands of years ago.
Job 28:25-TO MAKE (or establish, or imparted) THE WEIGHT FOR (or of, or to) THE WINDS.
Throughout much of the world’s history, people did not understand that inside the earth is as it were fire. The Bible told of this thousands of years ago.
Job 28:5-THE EARTH…UNDER IT IS TURNED UP AS IT WERE FIRE.
Throughout much of the world’s history, people did not understand the evaporation process—how the rivers empty into the sea; the waters evaporate and are bound up in thick clouds, but the clouds are not ripped. Then, they are poured as rain upon the face of the earth again. The Bible told of this thousands of years ago.
Ecc 1:7-ALL THE RIVERS RUN INTO THE SEA; YET THE SEA IS NOT FULL; UNTO THE PLACE FROM WHENCE THE RIVERS COME, THITHER THEY RETURN AGAIN.
Amos 5:8-HIM THAT…CALLETH FOR THE WATERS OF THE SEA, AND POURETH THEM OUT UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH: THE LORD IS HIS NAME.
Job 38:34-CANST THOU LIFT UP THY VOICE TO THE CLOUDS, THAT ABUNDANCE OF WATERS MAY COVER THEE?
Jere 51:16-WHEN HE UTTERETH HIS VOICE, THERE IS A MULTITUDE OF WATERS IN THE HEAVENS; AND HE CAUSETH THE VAPOURS TO ASCEND FROM THE ENDS OF THE EARTH.
Job 26:8-HE BINDETH UP THE WATERS IN HIS THICK CLOUDS; AND THE CLOUD IS NOT RENT UNDER THEM.
Throughout much of the world’s history, people did not understand the wind currents and how they whirl about in circuits all over the earth. The Bible told of this thousands of years ago. The Bible was right, people didn’t understand.
Ecc 1:6-THE WIND GOETH TOWARD THE SOUTH, AND TURNETH ABOUT UNTO THE NORTH; IT WHIRLETH ABOUT CONTINUALLY, AND THE WIND RETURNETH AGAIN ACCORDING TO HIS CIRCUITS.
There are many peoples and nations throughout the world. The Bible explains how this came about: God has made all men from one blood. The Bible told of this thousands of years ago.
Acts 17:26-AND HATH MADE OF (or from) ONE BLOOD ALL NATIONS OF MEN FOR TO DWELL (or live) ON ALL THE FACE OF THE EARTH, AND HATH DETERMINED THE TIMES BEFORE APPOINTED, AND THE BOUNDS OF THEIR HABITATION.
3-THE UNIVERSE IS EXPANDING:
THE AREA IT IS STRETCHING OUT TO IS EMPTY
Throughout much of the world’s history, people did not understand the universe is expanding and stretching out into empty space. Science, in recent years, has confirmed that this is true. The Bible told about this thousands of years ago. The Bible was right, people didn’t understand.
Job 26:7-HE STRETCHETH OUT THE NORTH OVER THE EMPTY PLACE.
Isa 40:22-THAT STRETCHETH OUT THE HEAVENS AS A CURTAIN.
Ps 104:2-WHO STRETCHEST OUT THE HEAVENS LIKE A CURTAIN.
Jere 51:15-HE…HATH STRETCHED OUT THE HEAVEN BY HIS UNDERSTANDING.
Isa 45:12-I, EVEN MY HANDS, HAVE STRETCHED OUT THE HEAVENS, AND ALL THEIR HOST HAVE I COMMANDED.
Zech 12:1-THE LORD, WHICH STRETCHETH FORTH THE HEAVENS.
Job 9:8-WHICH ALONE SPREADETH OUT THE HEAVENS.
Isa 40:22-IT IS HE THAT…SPREADETH THEM (the heavens) OUT AS A TENT TO DWELL IN.
4-OTHER ITEMS ABOUT THE UNIVERSE
One might ask, "How is it possible the Bible recorded thousands of years ago such things as the bands of Orion and other astronomical information?" The answer remains the same—there is a God, and the Bible is the Word of God. He has also told us the future in His Word. As every single prophecy in the Bible regarding the past has been fulfilled, likewise, every single prophecy of the future will come to pass.
Job 38:31-CANST THOU BIND THE SWEET INFLUENCES OF PLEIADES, OR LOOSE THE BANDS OF ORION?
Job 38:32-CANST THOU GUIDE ARCTURUS WITH HIS SONS?
Amos 5:8-SEEK HIM THAT MAKETH THE SEVEN STARS AND ORION.
Job 9:9-WHICH MAKETH ARCTURUS, ORION, AND PLEIADES, AND THE CHAMBERS OF THE SOUTH.
cont'd
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #498 on:
July 15, 2006, 07:19:29 PM »
5-INVENTIONS
Could this be the telephone?
Job 38:35-CANST THOU SEND LIGHTNINGS (or we might say, electrical currents), THAT THEY MAY GO, AND SAY UNTO THEE, HERE WE ARE?
How will people all over the world see the dead bodies of the two witnesses lying in the streets of Jerusalem during the Tribulation? Could it be through television via satellite and also the Internet?
Rev 11:9-AND THEY OF THE PEOPLE AND KINDREDS AND TONGUES AND NATIONS SHALL SEE THEIR DEAD BODIES THREE DAYS AND AN HALF, AND SHALL NOT SUFFER THEIR DEAD BODIES TO BE PUT IN GRAVES.
Could this be a description of an automobile, written thousands of years ago?
Nah 2:4-THE CHARIOTS SHALL RAGE IN THE STREETS, THEY SHALL JUSTLE ONE AGAINST ANOTHER IN THE BROAD WAYS: THEY SHALL SEEM LIKE TORCHES, THEY SHALL RUN LIKE THE LIGHTNINGS.
Could these verses be describing jet planes? Does a jet fly over the mountain tops? Do they have a noise like a raging forest fire?
Isa 60:8 NIV-"WHO ARE THESE THAT FLY ALONG LIKE CLOUDS, LIKE DOVES TO THEIR NESTS?"
Joel 2:5 NIV-WITH A NOISE LIKE THAT OF CHARIOTS THEY LEAP OVER THE MOUNTAINTOPS, LIKE A CRACKLING FIRE CONSUMING STUBBLE, LIKE A MIGHTY ARMY DRAWN UP FOR BATTLE.
6-INSIGHTS ON ASTRONOMY
Astronomers, with their huge optical telescopes, radio telescopes, space telescopes, satellites, and many new types of detection devices are trying to measure "space." It is evident—the more they learn, the more vast the universe seems to be. They have found that "space" seems to extend billions of light years, and the galaxies seem to be almost without number.
The Bible told of this thousands of years ago. The Bible was right, yet many still don’t understand.
Jere 31:37-THUS SAITH THE LORD; IF HEAVEN ABOVE CAN BE MEASURED, AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH SEARCHED OUT BENEATH, I WILL ALSO CAST OFF ALL THE SEED OF ISRAEL. Since we know God will never cast off His people, we know that indeed heaven cannot be measured!
The Bible tells that the heavens declare God’s glory. Many do not understand this.
Ps 19:1-THE HEAVENS DECLARE THE GLORY OF GOD; AND THE FIRMAMENT (or skies, or expanse) SHEWETH HIS HANDYWORK.
Neither do many people comprehend what the next verses mean.
Ecc 1:9-11-THE THING THAT HATH BEEN, IT IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE; AND THAT WHICH IS DONE IS THAT WHICH SHALL BE DONE: AND THERE IS NO NEW THING UNDER THE SUN. IS THERE ANY THING WHEREOF IT MAY BE SAID, SEE, THIS IS NEW? IT HATH BEEN ALREADY OF OLD TIME, WHICH WAS BEFORE US. THERE IS NO REMEMBRANCE OF FORMER THINGS; NEITHER SHALL THERE BE ANY REMEMBRANCE OF THINGS THAT ARE TO COME WITH THOSE THAT SHALL COME AFTER.
7-SOME OTHER THINGS THAT THE WORLD’S WISDOM MAY NOT UNDERSTAND
Ps 32:9-AS THE HORSE, OR AS THE MULE, WHICH HAVE NO UNDERSTANDING: WHOSE MOUTH MUST BE HELD IN WITH BIT AND BRIDLE, LEST THEY COME NEAR UNTO THEE (or they will not come to you-NIV).
Job 39:13-17-GAVEST THOU THE GOODLY WINGS UNTO THE PEACOCKS? OR WINGS AND FEATHERS UNTO THE OSTRICH? WHICH LEAVETH HER EGGS IN THE EARTH, AND WARMETH THEM IN DUST, AND FORGETTETH THAT THE FOOT MAY CRUSH THEM, OR THAT THE WILD BEAST MAY BREAK THEM. SHE IS HARDENED AGAINST HER YOUNG ONES, AS THOUGH THEY WERE NOT HERS: HER LABOR IS IN VAIN WITHOUT FEAR; BECAUSE GOD HATH DEPRIVED HER OF WISDOM, NEITHER HATH HE IMPARTED TO HER UNDERSTANDING.
Gen 2:2-4-AND ON THE SEVENTH DAY GOD ENDED HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE; AND HE RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE HAD MADE. AND GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY, AND SANCTIFIED IT: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED FROM ALL HIS WORK WHICH GOD CREATED AND MADE. THESE ARE THE GENERATIONS (or history, or birth) OF THE HEAVENS AND OF THE EARTH WHEN THEY WERE CREATED, IN THE DAY THAT THE LORD GOD MADE THE EARTH AND THE HEAVENS.
8-ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY JESUS CHRIST
As the previous things are true, so the following is true.
Col 1:16-FOR BY HIM WERE ALL THINGS CREATED, THAT ARE IN HEAVEN, AND THAT ARE IN EARTH, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, WHETHER THEY BE THRONES, OR DOMINIONS, OR PRINCIPALITIES, OR POWERS: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM.
Eph 3:9-AND TO MAKE ALL MEN SEE WHAT IS THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE MYSTERY, WHICH FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD HATH BEEN HID IN GOD, WHO CREATED ALL THINGS BY JESUS CHRIST.
1 Cor 15:26-THE LAST ENEMY THAT SHALL BE DESTROYED IS DEATH.
1 Cor 15:57-BUT THANKS BE TO GOD, WHICH GIVETH US THE VICTORY THROUGH OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Rev 22:17-
AND THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY, COME.
AND LET HIM THAT HEARETH SAY, COME.
AND LET HIM THAT IS ATHIRST COME.
AND WHOSOEVER WILL,
LET HIM TAKE THE WATER OF LIFE FREELY.
Rev 22:20,21-
HE WHICH TESTIFIETH THESE THINGS SAITH,
SURELY I COME QUICKLY. AMEN.
EVEN SO, COME, LORD JESUS.
THE GRACE OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST BE WITH YOU ALL. AMEN.
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #499 on:
July 22, 2006, 05:22:11 AM »
"Living fossil" discovered in SW China
Experts recently discovered around 1200 Chinese Hynobiidaes in Guiding county Southwest of China's Guizhou province. These are a type of amphibian species around 300 million years old that once used to live in the dinosaur period. The discovery has offered important reference for the study on animals' evolution and welwitschiopsida's ecological environment.
It is known from the fishery station of Guiding county that this precious species is found in several townships like Yanxia, Duliu. They live happily with Chinese giant salamanders (Andrias davidianus) in clear streams and ponds, appearing with an amazingly large population with more than 1000 found in Yanxia township alone.
The species, named as Chinese Hynobiidae, dubbed as the "living fossil", was first discovered in Yichang, central China's Hubei province. It shares the shape of a giant salamander and has been listed on China's Red List of Endangered Species in1986.
Experts attribute the successful survival of the species to the favorable ecological environment. More than 40 percent of Yanxia township is covered by forest. Hills and ravines are seen here and there; waterfalls, springs, pools and linns form along over 100 streams, all of which has given a natural reserve for the ancient animal.
At present relevant authorities have already taken necessary protection measures for these emerging live flocks.
__________________
Just another discovery against evolution.
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #500 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:37:52 AM »
WALLABY MILK A SUPER BUG KILLER reports The Australian Senior: June 2006.
p.17. "The humble Australian wallaby might hold the key to defeating the world's
deadliest super bugs.
Researchers for the Victorian Department of Primary Industries made the
discovery while analysing the ingredients of the marsupial milk. They started
their research to find out how wallaby joeys - born without a proper immune
system - survived until they developed antibodies at 100 days old.
By chance they identified a super potent compound in wallaby milk. It turned out
to be more than 100 times more effective than penicillin in the fight against
antibiotic-resistant bacteria - including golden staph.
Research boss Ben Cocks said the discovery could have a profound impact on both
animal and human health.
"We made our first observation a bit over a year ago," he said. "Since then
we've got much more information about it - about how it's made, and how potent
it is.
"From a biological, evolutionary perspective, it's very interesting because
there's no equivalent in humans or in cows.
"It seems as if the placental mammals lost the gene for this anti-microbial"
[emphasis mine]
Mr Cox said the antibiotic compound was relatively easy to synthesise.
The next step was to examine if it could be used safely in humans.
The team has approached biotechnology companies for help to develop the
product."
ED.COM. When you state that "It seems as if the placental mammals lost the gene
for this anti-microbial", then you are really admitting that this is another
example of evolution which is actually devolution - change by loss, particularly
when you add the unstated info that there is not the slightest evidence that
placental mammals evolved from marsupials (Ref. Australia, kangaroos,
monotremes.)
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Soldier4Christ
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #501 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:39:17 AM »
WE HAVE OUTERSPACE COMPETITION WINNERS for question "Has the Creator God of
the Bible created intelligent, morally accountable physical life elsewhere in
this universe, as He did on earth?"
Actually, the best answer would be a combination of two entries, so we decided
to award two prizes. Congratulations to Derek Iverson of Kent WA USA and Steven
Korunic of New Zealand. A DVD of "Genesis Geology" is on it's way to both of you
and we trust you both enjoy it. Please note the judges choice is final and no
correspondence will be entered into.
Derek's answer gives a good Scriptural background to the problem, i.e. how
Creation, the Fall and Redemption affect the universe as a whole, and how these
are centred on events involving the human race, but it does not explain how that
would affect any ET's. Steven's answer gives what the judges felt was a tangent
about angels and dimensions, that is very creative, but he does get to the
"punch line", i.e. how could other morally accountable beings live in a fallen
universe and how could they be saved when the Fall and Salvation were brought
about by events on earth. We trust you enjoy their answers. Thanks to all who
entered.
Derek Iverson wrote :
"Has the Creator God of the Bible created intelligent, morally accountable
physical life elsewhere in this universe, as He did on earth?"
Let's first define terms. Exodus 20:8 records that "...in 6 days the LORD made
the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them" so we see
specifically that the word 'creation' encompasses the heavens, the earth, the
sea and all creatures in any of these media. That is, the word creation
encompasses everything in the material world. Any other morally accountable
physical life must be included within what is called here 'creation'. With this
understanding we can proceed to four singular points in the history of the earth
that demonstrate that man is the only intelligent, morally accountable physical
life in the universe:
1. Corruption of creation. We see from Romans 5:12 that sin entered the world
through one man [Adam], and death through sin, or more to the point we see from
Romans 8:20-21 that "creation was subjected to futility...to the bondage of
corruption". This happened at a singular event in the history of a particular
man living on the earth but was universal in application.
2. Defeat of death. In 1 Pet 3:18 states that "..Christ also suffered once
for sins..." and Hebrews 7:27 says "for this He did once for all when He offered
up Himself." The penalty of sin was paid once by a certain man Jesus at a
unique point in the history of the earth, but is available to all men.
3. Removal of residue. From II Pet 3:7,10 we learn that "...the heavens will
pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both
the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." So we see that when
the day of salvation is over, that the day of judgement will come where all of
the physical content of creation will be destroyed. This will be a singular
event that will impact the entire universe.
4. Restored reign. Judgement is not the end of the story however, but Jesus
will create a new heaven and earth in which Jesus will reign with those who
loved His appearing. Rev 21:1-3 states that this happens after the first
heavens and earth have passed away, and will be characterized by the very
present reign of Jesus over His people. This happens at a unique point in
history in a particular place with a unique King.
From these evidences we see that the entire universe is impacted in at least
these 4 significant points by events on the earth which specifically center
around mankind. Mankind corrupted the good creation; God took on human flesh
and sacrificed Himself to atone for their sin; God intends to destroy all
remnants of this corrupted universe; God intends to live among and reign over
His followers from mankind in a new heaven and earth. There is no place in This
universe for ETI's to exist.
Thanks for the challenge to consider this question.
Steven Korunic wrote :
First one must define the limits of the Universe. A stanch evolutionists would
say only what they can perceive is all there is (Which I find quite arrogant as
it suggests that by good accident alone they happen to have the gamut of senses
required to know this, yet there is no reason to presume they have the whole
range of required senses).
A biblically astute person might want to include the spiritual areas where God
and/or angels reside (But they wouldn't have to define it that way if they
didn't want to). I usually refer to our (humans') Universe as the 4 dimensions
of the space-time continuum which is embedded in a larger multi-dimensional
universe. Using this model, the Trinity could be a pan-dimensional family in
this Universe, and the created angels are also hyper-dimensional life (although
not pan-dimensional).
Since the angels were present before the creation of earth, and are intelligent,
morally accountable with physical life (Which may only materilize when they
enter our 4 dimensions, and on the odd accasion dine with humans in a human
form :-), I argue they are extra-terresteral in orgin, so God did create such
life elsewhere as he did on earth.
As for the so called "aliens in outer space', biblically speaking, it is
unreasonable to assume that God did make another race like the humans but on
another planet, with their own cutures, habitat etc because if they did exist,
they would be experiencing the same decay of the universe for which we humans
are at fault of causing through our Sin that started with Adam. Humans have a
plan from God for redemption from this cursed Universe. But for the aliens, they
would be experiencing the cursed Universe, too, with no relief from it or
explanation for it. It is difficult to imagine how a just God could curse the
their Universe, too, through no fault of their own, especially if they weren't
sinners. Furthermore, even if they were sinners, and somehow understood our
Bible, as if theings weren't weird enough already, I think it would be strange
(though maybe not impossible) for this alien race's redemption to be hinging
upon the acts of Jesus on a forign planet called Earth zillions of miles way.
Above all of this, I suspect that the Bible wording is probably such that it
excludes redemption for non-humans (But I couldn't find such wording, so I am
not sure about this last point) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
New Testament, I Thessalonians 5:21
Steven
cont'd
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #502 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:39:31 AM »
4. COUNTING STEPS WITH ANTS reported in ScienceNOW 29 June 2006 and BBC News
Online, 30 June 2006. Biologists have wondered how ants that live in places with
unvarying terrain such as sandy deserts are able to find their way back home
after foraging far from the nest. Previous studies have shown they can memorise
the position of distant landmarks to keep track of which direction they are
facing, but when they find food they don't just retrace their steps, they head
straight back to the nest. Therefore they need to have some idea of how far they
have moved and how far it is back to the nest. Ant watchers have also observed
that an ant's stride length is always the same, so they wondered if the ants
kept track of the number of steps as an indicator of how far they have moved,
and how far it is back to the nest. A team led by Matthias Wittlinger, of the
University of Ulm, Germany, established an ant nest outside their laboratory and
watched as the ants went foraging. They collected ants that had ventured a long
way from the nest and modified the length of the legs of some of them. The
researches extended the leg length of some ants by gluing tiny stilts to their
legs. This meant that each step would be longer. The researchers clipped off the
ends of the legs of another group, so that their steps would be shorter. The
rest of the captured ants were left with normal length legs. The researchers
then placed the ants back where they found them, gave them some food and watched
them make their way back to the nest. The long legged ants went beyond the nest
before starting to look for the entrance, the short legged ants stopped too
soon, and the normal legged ants made it home. To confirm that it was the number
of steps that was guiding the ants the researchers returned the modified ants to
the nest and then observed them on another foraging trip. This time they
returned to the nest as normal. Mandyam Srinivasan, a biologist at Australian
National University in Canberra commented: "The challenge now would be to
discover exactly how the nervous system senses and integrates the limb movements
to provide the ant with a sense of how far it has travelled." BBC article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5128604.stm
ED. COM. Anyone who failed trigonometry at school should be impressed by these
ants, because it involves more than just counting steps, since they don't follow
their own trail back and so took a different number of steps out than back. When
the ants go out foraging they do not travel in a straight line until they find
food, but may have changed direction many times. Therefore, when calculating the
number of steps to get back home they have to take into account the angles at
which they moved and keep track of how many steps in each direction. We are sure
an engineer could invent a device that could count steps, measure angles and
calculate distances, but if one does no-one will claim the invention evolved by
chance. Therefore the biologists who carried out the experiment described above
have no excuse not believing that ants were created by a smarter engineer. We
are also wondering when the Ants Rights people will begin to sue on behalf of
leg deprived ants whose legs have been trimmed. (Ref. insects, arthropods,
mathematics)
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
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Reply #503 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:43:51 AM »
SQUISHED SQUIRRELS EVOLVE AS ROADKILL victims of "evolutionary illusions".
New Scientist 22 April 2006, p11 reported they are doing things they "evolved to
do, but at the wrong time or in the wrong place." Ecologist Joel Brown of
University of Chicago, Illinois claims this explains why so many squirrels end
up being squashed on roads, because they spent millions of years evolving to
cross open spaces as quickly as possible, "without wasting time watching for
predators they wouldn't be able to escape anyway." Another example is reported
by Reed Bowman of Archbold Biological Station, Lake Placid, Florida who studied
Florida scrub jays. Because of the abundance of bird feeders in suburban gardens
urban jays have been breeding earlier than country birds, but the nuts provided
by well meaning humans are not suitable to feed the young and there is not
enough of their usual food, insect larvae, until later in Spring, so the young
are not fed properly. Other studies indicate bright lights can confuse migrating
birds and emerging turtles. One example of adaptation to city life has been
observed in European great tits. Urban birds sing at a higher pitch so they can
be heard against the background din of the city. Brown commented: "Most of these
species have just begun to adapt to human environments. It's a cool natural
experiment."
ED. COM. Whatever is happening to animals and birds living in urban areas it is
not evolution. Since roadkill naturally selects inept squirrels, leaving only
those which either made it across or don't cross roads, those creatures that
survive have simply used their already existing ability to learn a new
behaviour to cope with a changing environment. They will still be the same
creatures. Those that cannot learn this will die out. Thus we have "survival of
fittest" and "natural selection" but we do not have evolution. Adaptation,
survival and selection are all real processes but they do not produce new living
creatures. (Ref. ecology, urbanisation, niches)
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
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Reply #504 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:44:22 AM »
GIRAFFE NECK BLOOD FLOW PROBLEM investigated, according to a report in
ScienceNOW 16 June 2006 and Journal of Experimental Biology vol. 209, No. 13, 1
July 2006. Biologists have long speculated about how giraffes manage to keep
the blood flow to their brains when their heads can be more than 2 meters (6 ft)
above their hearts. One theory was that the blood flow was kept going by a
siphon effect, where the flow of blood down the jugular veins helps pull blood
up the carotid arteries (the main arteries to the head). The other theory was
that the giraffes needed a powerful heart that could pump at a high pressure. To
test these theories a group of scientists at the University of Wyoming build a
model with lengths of tubing and an electric pump. They found the siphon effect
only contributed to blood flow if they used stiff tubing, but when they used
flexible tubing that was more like real blood vessels they could only maintain
the flow by making the pump work harder. Graham Mitchell, a zoologist who led
the study, said the results explained why giraffes have a much higher blood
pressure than humans, but he also thinks that a muscular cuff around the base of
the jugular vein is important in regulating the flow, especially when the animal
lifts its head after drinking. Journal of Experimental Biology article:
http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/209/13/iii?etoc
ED. COM. In spite of a total lack of fossil evidence, evolutionists believe that
giraffes spontaneously grew longer necks and natural selection enabled the
longest necked specimens to survive at the expense of the shorter necked ones.
Presumably the same mysterious force that elongated the neck also simultaneously
strengthened the heart and blood vessels to provide the circulation needed to
maintain the blood flow whatever the position of its head. The experiment
described above reminds us that it takes more than just elongating the bones and
other tissues in the neck to make a giraffe. It makes far more sense to believe
that giraffes were designed as whole animals with the right combination of
bones, muscles, heart and blood vessels, etc. needed to function as a giraffe.
(Ref. bio-engineering, hydraulics, fluids)
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
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Reply #505 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:44:51 AM »
SHARK TEETH DIDN'T EVOLVE, according to a report in New Scientist 18 Feb
2006, p17. Chuck Ciampaglio of Wright State University, Ohio has studied the
teeth of marine predators, including sharks, reptiles and mammals "from the past
100 million years". After measuring overall size, cross section, serrations and
number of cusps he classified them into "five designs, with distinct functions".
He found that marine reptiles had "thick pointed conical teeth able to puncture
and crush prey" and sharks that lived at the same time had "a variety of tooth
types, such as small teeth with low crowns good for clutching, or teeth suited
to grinding open hard shelled prey." Marine mammals had either pointed conical
teeth or "slicing and gouging teeth" like sharks. As marine reptiles are
believed to have died out before marine mammals evolved, an ecological niche for
animals with pointed conical teeth was left empty for 15 million years, but
sharks did not evolve such teeth even though they continued to inhabit the seas
after the reptiles died out.
ED. COM. Evolutionists often claim that new types of life forms evolved because
others had become extinct and left vacant environmental niches, eg. extinction
of the dinosaurs supposedly allowed primitive mammals to proliferate and evolve
into the many different types of mammals that now live on earth. However, for a
living creature to develop a new characteristic it needs new genetic
information. An empty ecological niche will not provide this. In fact, the
fossil record of sharks fits Biblical history. The oldest sharks in the
evolutionist fossil collection were found in geologic record as distinct, fully
formed animals, clearly identifiable as sharks. Since then some have died out
and many have shrunk, and all survivors have produced their own kind. This is
exactly what you would predict if sharks were created as separate kinds and have
been affected by the degeneration of the world that has occurred because of
human rebellion and God's judgement. (Ref. elasmobranches, ecology, evolution)
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #506 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:45:19 AM »
FOSSIL PRECAMBRIAN EMBRYOS FOUND, according to Science vol. 312, p1587 and
p1644, 16 June 2006. Palaeontologists studying the Doushantuo Formation
phosphates in Weng'an, Guizhou Province, China have found hundreds of fossil
embryos. The embryos are at the very early stage of development and consist of
small clusters of cells, but even at this early stage of development there is
some differentiation according to the body shape of the animal. The rocks are
dated as 580 millions years old - a time when only the simplest animals such as
jellyfish were believed to have existed. However, the embryos "resemble those of
modern bilaterians such as annelids (worms) and molluscs (shellfish)." The
article goes on to say: "If they check out it could mean a wide array of complex
animals existed tens of millions of years before the 'Cambrian explosion' - the
time when palaeontologists think hard bodied animals proliferated as their
ecosystems took shape."
ED. COM. These findings support Genesis for two reasons. One is they are
evidence that worms, molluscs and other bilaterians have not changed since they
first appeared on the earth even on the evolutionist timescale - exactly what
you would expect if animals were created separately to multiply after their
kinds. The other is that such delicate microscopic structures can only be
preserved with enough detail for scientists to recognise them if they are
rapidly and deeply buried. Otherwise they would be destroyed by chemical and
bacterial action. This is exactly what you would expect in catastrophic rapid
onset flood - just as described in Genesis. (Ref. development, differentiation,
preservation)
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #507 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:45:47 AM »
NEW BUTTERFLY SPECIES MADE IN LAB, according to reports in BBC News Online
and ScienceNOW 14 June 2006. "Heliconius heurippa" is a butterfly with vivid red
and yellow patches on its wings that look like a combination of the patterns on
two other species of Heliconius butterflies, suggesting that "H heurippa" was a
hybrid of the other two. To test this theory a team of researchers at the
Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute in Panama bred the other two species
together they produced offspring with the wing patterns of "H heurippa." The
newly bred butterflies were found to breed true for three generations. This
study has led evolutionary biologists to claim that hybridization can be a means
of evolving new species. Although it is difficult to prove it happens in the
wild, scientists have suggested that the swordtail fish, African cichlid fish,
"Ragoletis" fruit flies and the American red fox are the product of hybrid
speciation. BBC article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5080298.stm
ED. COM. The fact that two species of butterfly can produce fertile offspring
indicates that they and the offspring species are actually all of the one kind,
even though they may not breed together in the wild. Genesis tells us that
living things were made as separate kinds designed to reproduce after their
kinds. The term "kind" should not be equated with the modern day term "species".
Since their original creation some kinds have been split up so that subgroups no
longer breed together. This is the process of speciation, but it is not
evolution. If some of these subgroups start crossbreeding this is hybridization,
but that is not evolution either. These processes involve splitting and
regrouping of living things but not the production of new and different kinds of
living things. (Ref. species, Lepidoptera, hybrids)
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
«
Reply #508 on:
July 27, 2006, 06:53:17 AM »
Fossil frogs yield 'soft tissues'
Scientists have extracted marrow from the bones of frogs and salamanders that died 10 million years ago in the muddy swamps of north-eastern Spain.
The first fossilised bone marrow known to science provides a rare insight into the make-up of prehistoric animals.
It is preserved in remarkable detail; usually only hard tissue such as bone survives in the fossil record.
The soft tissue may yield traces of protein and DNA, researchers report in the journal Geology.
Bone marrow is the tissue that fills the centre of large bones, acting as a factory for producing new platelets and red and white blood cells.
There are two types: haematopoietic (which can produce blood cells) and stromal (which can produce fat, cartilage and bone).
The ancient bone marrow was preserved in 3D, retaining the original texture and red and yellow colour of haematopoietic and fatty marrow.
"Finding soft tissue like this is so important because it gives an insight into the physiology of ancient organisms, and how their bodies worked," said team member Maria McNamara of University College Dublin.
"The fact that we've got red bone marrow in the salamander shows that their blood cells were produced in the bone marrow; in the modern salamander it is not, it is produced in the spleen," she told the BBC News website.
Protective shell
The frogs and salamanders were found in a fossil-rich deposit dating back to the Miocene Epoch, the period of time that extends from about 5.3 to 23 million years ago.
Ms McNamara, and colleagues in the UK, Spain and US, say the bone marrow was preserved because the bones acted as a protective shell, preventing microbes from invading and breaking the soft tissue down.
They believe many other examples of preserved bone marrow will be found, raising the possibility of investigating the proteins and DNA of prehistoric animals.
"It is very exciting because with this organic material we can look for traces of organic molecules, protein and possibly even DNA," the Dublin researcher said.
"There are potentially a lot more of these types of tissue preserved and much more chance for other palaeontologists to find protein and DNA."
Certainly, past reports of the discovery of fossilised blood cells have proved controversial. Many finds have turned out to be little more than mineral deposits.
Last year, US researchers extracted some flexible filaments that resembled blood vessels from dinosaur bone. They also found traces of what look liked red blood cells.
_____________________________
These evolutionist scientist are really getting desparate to prove evolution. It has already been proven that soft tissue cannot survive in these fossils for that length of time. The finding of this soft tissue does prove that these fossils are not as old as previously believed by these scientists.
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Re: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution
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Reply #509 on:
July 30, 2006, 01:21:02 PM »
Second DNA code is discovered
With every added layer of complexity we discover about our cells, we realize that God’s design goes beyond our own understanding, and see that the likelihood that such complexity arose from chance is absurdly low. To learn more about the significance of DNA, take a look at Michael Matthews’ DNA—what does it prove? and Dr. Gary Parker’s The origin of life: DNA and protein.
________________
DNA—what does it prove?
by Michael Matthews, AiG–US
Conferences worldwide are celebrating a landmark in 20th century science—the 50th anniversary of Watson and Crick’s discovery of DNA’s structure (first reported in Nature magazine, 25 April 1953).
This discovery is certainly worthy of note—and celebration. The discovery of DNA’s double-helix structure truly revolutionized biology, opening the door to amazing breakthroughs in our understanding of disease and genetic disorders, and it inspired the just-completed Human Genome Project, hailed as the ‘periodic table of biology’ (see Human Genome Project complete ... again).
No more need for God?
The celebrations have a dark side, however. Many atheistic evolutionists claim that the discovery of DNA’s structure is proof of evolution and a nail in God’s coffin. As they see it, the discovery of a ‘universal’ molecular structure for storing and passing on information to offspring—shared by almost all forms of life1—allows scientists to find a purely physical explanation for the origin and development of life on Earth, without any need for a Creator.
Indeed, both Crick and Watson have been outspoken in their belief that the discovery of DNA’s structure has helped overturn belief in the God of the Bible. Francis Crick has repeatedly said that he sees DNA as a confirmation of evolution, which discredits ‘the god hypothesis.’2 His co-discoverer, James Watson, says that our understanding of DNA has helped to debunk religious ‘myths from the past.’
Watson boldly told the London Telegraph in a recent interview, ‘Every time you understand something, religion becomes less likely. Only with the discovery of the double helix and the ensuing genetic revolution have we had grounds for thinking that the powers held traditionally to be the exclusive property of the gods might one day be ours.’2
Many of the world’s leading scientists will hear this message today at a huge gathering of luminaries (including Watson himself) who traveled to Cambridge to praise the ongoing impact of Watson and Crick’s discovery.
The culmination of the day, after a series of speeches on molecular medicine, cancer, aging, etc., is a lecture titled ‘Genes and human nature’ by Matt Ridley, author of the bestseller Genome. Ridley will speak about the broader implications of human genome research, and it is not hard to guess what he will say.
Scientific American describes Ridley as ‘an avid proponent of the Darwinian view of the world, [who] perceives the genome not as a cookbook or a manual but as a quintessentially historical document—a three-billion-year memoir of our species from its beginnings in the primal ooze to the present day.’3
Around the world, believers in ‘goo-to-you’ evolution, like Matt Ridley, are repeating the mantra that the human genome holds the key to unlocking the mystery of human nature and the evolution of life on Earth.
What does DNA really show us?
But is this really what DNA shows us? Ironically, while atheists believe DNA is conclusive evidence of evolution, creationists reach the opposite conclusion.
Unlike the atheists, creationists see the genetic code as astonishing evidence for a Designer, who created a marvelously complex, efficient ‘information system’ for encoding life. The only reasonable explanation for all the information in DNA is that a Designer put all the information in the original genes—e.g. the ‘kinds’ that He made during the six days of Creation (see The Marvelous ‘Message Molecule’).
So how can rational people examining the same facts reach opposite conclusions? The answer is ‘worldview.’ To understand where DNA came from, we must make major assumptions about ancient historical events, which no human beings were present to observe.
Atheists begin with the assumption that the universe has been around for eons and that they can explain everything by time and chance. So they interpret scientific data to fit their assumptions. Those who believe in the Creator of the Bible, however, reject long ages. They believe that God was an eyewitness to the origin of life, and He faithfully recorded these events in His Word. Creationists interpret the data within this framework.
Only one good answer
So whose framework makes sense of modern-day scientific facts? AiG has several articles showing how the existence of DNA can not be explained by evolutionary processes (see Genetics: No Friend of Evolution and Jonathan Sarfati’s excellent article in the latest Creation magazine, ‘DNA: marvelous messages or mostly mess?’)
It is not enough to explain how DNA might have gathered into strands by random chance; evolutionists must also explain the machinery to interpret DNA. In other words, it’s not enough to explain how random letters could eventually fall into the order S-E-E-T-H-E-D-O-G-R-U-N. These letters still don’t mean anything unless you have a pre-existing language system for interpreting those letters! ‘See the dog run’ has meaning, but only to a modern English-speaker. (The origin of ‘information’ is a critical weakness in evolutionary theory—see Self-Replicating Enzymes? and Q&A: Information Theory.)
Biochemist Dr Duane Gish, a stalwart in the Creation movement and vice president of the Institute for Creation Research, observes about the human genome: ‘The genetics are so incredibly complex and can be so marvelously interrelated that it’s absolutely going to demand an intelligent source. The idea that all of this could have come about by random accidents, genetic errors, and so forth is just simply beyond comprehension.’4
He explains, for instance, that cells must have an incredibly sophisticated editing process to ensure that each gene is reproduced error-free. ‘If life did not have that editing process right at the very start, then it would just mutate right out of existence,’ he explains.
‘All those errors would slip through—they’d make nonsense, and that would be the end of it. The fact that we have to have that editing process from the very beginning means it had to be created to be there to be effective and to do that work—or life could not exist.’
Conclusion
Yes, this is an appropriate day to celebrate recent advancements in our knowledge of human genetics and biology. But we should be humbled by our knowledge, limited as it is.
Atheists have no explanation for the origin of life or mankind’s sinful nature, in spite of their noises to the contrary. The God of the Bible, on the other hand, has given us the only historical basis for understanding the origin of the human gene—and mankind’s sinful nature—His Word.
Not only is the Creator God the source of all life and the source of our knowledge about life, He is our only hope (through Jesus Christ, the Creator/Savior/Redeemer) to escape the consequences of our evil nature, which blinds us to His truths (1 Corinthians 2:14) and causes us to seek our own way (Romans 3:11).
References and notes
1. But not all life forms have standard DNA. See PBS-TV series Evolution—Episode 1: Darwin’s Dangerous Idea.
2. Do our genes reveal the hand of God?
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/connected/main.jhtml?xml=/connected/2003/03/19/ecfgod19.xml>, 20 March 2003.
3. <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/-/books/0060932902/reviews/103-4581528-4570239#00609329027299>.
4. Brown, J., Researcher: complexity of DNA demands 'intelligent designer' in the process, AgapePress, <http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/3/32003e.asp>, 3 March 2003.
cont'd
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