christians jailed in philly

[duain1967]

i posted this on another site, and got all kinds of differant feed back. just wondering what yall think.

               
     
     
           
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FAITH UNDER FIRE
Homosexuals planned
Christian harassment
'OutFest' organizers announced efforts
to block protesters now facing prison

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Posted: January 10, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern



© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Homosexual "OutFest" organizers in Philadelphia announced plans in advance of their October 2004 street festival to block Christians from access to the publicly sponsored event where 11 members of Repent America were arrested, five being charged with a series of misdemeanors and felonies that could put them in jail for 47 years.

As WorldNetDaily reported, the group was "preaching God's Word" to a crowd of people attending the Oct. 10, 2004, event and displaying banners with biblical messages.


After a confrontation with a group called the Pink Angels, described by protesters as "a militant mob of homosexuals," the 11 Christians, members of Repent America, were arrested and taken into custody.

Eight charges were filed: criminal conspiracy, possession of instruments of crime, reckless endangerment of another person, ethnic intimidation, riot, failure to disperse, disorderly conduct and obstructing highways.

None of the Pink Angels were cited or arrested.

After a preliminary hearing in December, Judge William Austin Meehan ordered four of the adult Christians to stand trial on three felony and five misdemeanor charges. If convicted, they could get a maximum of 47 years in prison. A fifth juvenile has been ordered to stand trial in the juvenile justice system facing the same eight counts.

But, according to an article in the Philadelphia Gay News days before the street festival, homosexual organizers were planning to block Christians from access to the event.

Chuck Volz, senior adviser to Philly Pride Presents, told the publication the Pink Angels security force would carry large signs alongside the Christians to surround them and block their access to OutFest participants.

"We'll have a pink wall around them," he said. "Hopefully, they will be so frustrated they won't come again. Talking to a piece of Styrofoam is not the same as talking to a crowd of people."

Volz also made clear that "diversity" was not the goal of the street festival.

"It's our event, and we're not going to permit vendors or community groups that conflict with the theme of the event," he said. He said welcoming Christians to the street festival would be analogous to a black event welcoming white supremacists.

Police said they would have cordoned off the permitted area for OutFest, preventing protesters from attending, had event organizers obtained an injunction from a judge. But OutFest organizers did not get an injunction.

Dan Anders, an attorney for Philly Pride Presents, said: "Our position is that they are not welcome to attend, they haven't been invited to attend, and we would rather that they protest the event from outside the permitted area."

Volz admitted in the report that OutFest organizers didn't have a leg to stand on in keeping out people exercising their First Amendment rights in a public venue.

"Given the parameters of the First Amendment, there's no way to keep them out," he said. "I think the gay community should understand that the gay-rights movement has succeeded because people are permitted free speech under the First Amendment. We can't be in a position of denying people the right to compete with us in the marketplace of ideas."

"This is one of the most remarkable and unlawful actions by police that I have ever witnessed," said Michael Marcavage, director of Repent America. "Their blatant disregard of the law by allowing hecklers to impede our way, block our message and then arrest us, is inexcusable, especially by police officers who are specially trained to protect civil rights.

"Christians are now being labeled as 'haters' and any speech that homosexuals perceive to be intimidating, such as our Christian witness at OutFest, makes them a prime target for 'hate crimes legislation.'"

Continued Marcavage: "We are clearly 'not guilty' of these crimes, and with the help of our video footage, we shall be vindicated of these trumped-up charges."

Related stories:

17-year-old girl part of 'Philadelphia 5'

U.S. attorneys complicit in arrest of Christians?

Philadelphia accused of 'abuse of power'

Prosecutor: Bible is 'fighting words'

City will prosecute Christian protesters

'Philadelphia 11' fighting back

11 Christians arrested at homosexual event




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[Symphony]

thank you duain.

I've heard barely anything about this.  I listen to some talk radio regularly.

It's possible the police there are gay themselves, if not at least sympathetic to the gay cause.  Philadelphia seems to have a growing sympathy generally, to the gay cause.

Of course, it is known as the 'city of brotherly love'.  


The recently elected Sheriff of Dallas/Fort Worth, is openly lesbian, as i understand it.


I'm sorry to see all of this.

I'm still wanting to do the shirt idea, i've discussed here, separately, under a different thread, here.

[M]

This all sad.  Christians should take note that assembling to march on these types of events most likely will only land them in trouble.  Christians are obliged to follow the laws of their country.

In order to have such a public event, the organization must submit plans and get a permit from the city.   There may even be fees for an extra police presence or not.  Christians organizing their own protest at these events run into trouble with the law because they don't have a permit to do so.  They are not assembling legally.  If citizens do not wish these types of events to occur in their city, they are encouraged to write or call their politicians with their concerns.  

I live in a large city that hosts one of these types of events yearly.  The business owners in the area like the event since it brings them more revenue.  Many people go to indulge  the "parade" because even if they are not identifying themselves with these people they are just as depraved.  Some even take their children.  I avoid the city when that event is taking place.  

Sinners are sinners.  We must pray for them.  I don't think many people will be saved at these events by someone trying to give them a tract or by a t-shirt.  They are already so lost and deep in sin they don't even feel guilt about it.  

A better action by concerned Christians is to take to pray for these souls.  Supporting church youth and children's programs that bring in children outside of the church families is important.  The few people I know (who call themselves homosexuals) were abused as children or youths.  The guilt and anger of the abuse confused them.  Sometimes they were teased at school about their confusion and this got them into more abuse.  They were exploited by this depraved community until they joined it.  

We need to show children examples of good parent roles (mother and father), examples of good marriages and families (intact and God honoring).  We need help children and youth understand that any sexual activity outside of marriage (husband and wife) is sinful, unhealthy and abusive.  Hopefully, if a child hears the gospel it will stay with them.  If some abuse happens to them they will tell someone and action to stop the abuse will happen.  We can try to save the children from this type of sin.

We hate the sin, not the sinner.

[Symphony]

The business owners in the area like the event since it brings them more revenue.  

but isn't this exactly what was happening in Paul's case, with the artisans and their "...great is Artimus of the Ephesians" chant; they almost killed Paul, for saying that God was not an image made with hands, since the sales of these hand-held gods brought them their livlihood?

I don't think many people will be saved at these events by someone trying to give them a tract or by a t-shirt.

...how will anyone know unless someone preaches? says Paul, elsewhere - and if 'preaching' includes tracts and shirts, surely?

M, these are people who 're quite literaly taking of their own time and resources to challenge a trend while it's still in infancy.

Do we wait until they've surrounded our homes(Genesis 19:4), before we should ever say anything?

Should we ever say anything?

While prayer is certainly critical - thank you - does that absolve us from all or any other action?

Unless i'm misinterpreting you, M, your rhetoric if taken literally is a virtual slap in the face to all those who have taken the bull by the horns - from Moses, to the major and minor Prophets, some who were skinned alive, or sawn asunder, to our Saviour who quite literally confronted the Jewish tradiationalism at it's very heart and soul - the Sanhedrin - and to all those who came immediately after Jesus, from Stephen onward - who confronted in very real terms the apostasy about them - and paid dearly for it with their lives.

Yes, i disagree with militant confrontation, but that doesn't mean we don't confront.  We have a mandate to do so.  Yes, through much prayer, and fasting.  But does prayer and even fasting absolve us from any action in real terms?

The Christian example we have from both Old and New Testament - with much love - is quite the contrary.

[M]

I have no intention to criticize true martyrs for Christ.  But I have found in my studies of saint's live that they had a respect for all of God's laws and laws of their state (unless the state's laws contradicted God's laws).  It is a very difficult situation to attempt to witness to some types of people.  It requires bravery, preparation and prayer.  It is charity to approach such people with the Good News of our Lord.  We do not wish for any souls to be condemned to Hell.  It is only because of love and concern that someone should want to preach the Gospel to these people, not anger.

I am quite grieved by Christians who approach sinners with anger.  While God has righteous anger over sin, we can seek the Holy Spirit to find a good and effective way to bring the message to sinners.  If I can not approach a sinner with love and not anger, it is best for me to stop and pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance.  

My great concern is when some Christians lead others to break the law.  They trust these people and unknowingly break the law during a demonstation.  Some people get involved in what they believe is a peaceful demonstration and it ends up with people fighting with the police.  Some people have even taken to terrorism for their causes.  Other people, who have no interest in the cause, will show up at a demonstation looking for a fight.  For this reason, I am hesitant to attend public demonstrations.  I prefer to pray and use one-to-one communication, tracts and non-confrontational methods.  

What is the scripture about Paul that you are refering to?  In Acts 16:19-24 Paul and Silas were thrown into prison because they had cast out spirits from a slave who was kept as a fortune teller.  Acts 17:2-8  Paul went to the synagogue in Thessalonica and preached the gospel and was thrown in jail.    Acts 18:12  the Roman proconsul Gallio threw the case out of the court.    The riot in Ephesus Acts 19:23-31 was started by the pagan silversmith Demetrius.   If you continue to read the chapter it is very interesting what happens.  Acts 19:29-31 "Soon the whole city was in an uproar.  The people seized Gaius and Aristarchus, Paul's traveling companions from Macedonia, and rushed as one man into the theater.  Paul wanted to appear before the crowd, but the disciples would not let him.  Even some of the officials of the province, friends of Paul, sent him a message begging him not to venture into the theater."  Paul did not speak at the assembly.  He did not cause the riot.  The scripture doesn't even make it clear he was there at the theater.     The city clerk gave some good advice to the crowd and dismissed them.   Acts 20:3  "- because the Jews made a plot against him just as he was about the sail for Syria".  The worshippers of the goddess Artemis are not mentioned as wanting to kill Paul, it was the Jews.  Please read the scriptures over.

Paul knew the laws of God well.  Paul also obeyed the Roman laws.  Jesus obeyed the laws of God.  Jesus also obeyed the Roman laws.  Christians should be very very careful about obeying and respecting laws, God's and the state's.  

[Symphony]

Thank you, M.

Well, I centainly agree with you wholeheartedly about many things that you say above:

  It is a very difficult situation to attempt to witness to some types of people.  It requires bravery, preparation and prayer.  It is charity to approach such people with the Good News of our Lord.  We do not wish for any souls to be condemned to Hell.  It is only because of love and concern that someone should want to preach the Gospel to these people, not anger.

Very well said, M.  I can't improve on that at all.  Thank you.

I am quite grieved by Christians who approach sinners with anger.  While God has righteous anger over sin, we can seek the Holy Spirit to find a good and effective way to bring the message to sinners.  If I can not approach a sinner with love and not anger, it is best for me to stop and pray for the Holy Spirit's guidance.

And that too.

My great concern is when some Christians lead others to break the law.  They trust these people and unknowingly break the law during a demonstation.  Some people get involved in what they believe is a peaceful demonstration and it ends up with people fighting with the police.  Some people have even taken to terrorism for their causes.  Other people, who have no interest in the cause, will show up at a demonstation looking for a fight.  For this reason, I am hesitant to attend public demonstrations.  I prefer to pray and use one-to-one communication, tracts and non-confrontational methods.  

Yes, and some very good points, here.

[Symphony]

The scripture I'm referring to is the riot you cite in Acts 19:23-31.  Yes, I have continued to read the chapter.  No, Paul, as you say, did not participate in the riot.

Paul, however, is very much the topic of Demetrius' little soliloquy (vs. 26) and, thereby, the 'cause' of this uprising.  Just prior, earlier in the chapter, many things are happening there in Ephesis, such that, by the time we reach the  passage in our discussion here, it is clearly prefaced with, in vs. 23, '...there arose no little stir concerning the Way.'

You say that 'Paul did not cause the riot'.

Harumph!!  That's the whole point of this chapter, beginning in vs. 1, when he's first coming to Ephesus.  No, not intentionally causing a riot or, in legal terms, "inciting a riot'", etc.  But just by his presence, and his preaching, and that of the others, too.

Demetrius is quite clear in his reference to Paul in vs. 26.

But if technically, okay, Demetrius 'caused' it.  

But I dare say that Christians, by their mere presence, are by definition the cause of much contradcition or, confrontation.  It can't be otherwise, unless we are renegging on the truth.  I can't stand by and let my community go homosexual without my contradiction.

But as you say, with much love, and 'charity'.

But Jesus points out too that we will be the cause of much strife.

But not that we deliberately cause it and, that is the slippery slope you point out, and I wholeheartedly agree.  You say it much better than I can.

I don't think we can maintain only and ever only just a 'diplomatic' approach to spreading the Gospel message.  This was the main issue for the churches, both Catholic and protestant, in the Nazi rise to power, in the 1930s, in Germany.  Should we 'confront', or should we not.

And even there the 'peaceable' ones were rounded up.  One group, named the 'The White Rose' for peaceable resistance, painted signs in downtown Munich, 'Hitler is a Mass Murderer', and passed out pamphlets.  February of 1943, they were rounded up, about a dozen of them, and on the same day as their arrest, beheaded.

Not to 'say something', is to risk complicity.  Especially when things are as far advanced as they seem to be now.

Not to say something about the gay thing, now, is to risk endorsement.

At some point you have to disagree with 'the law'?  Otherwise you risk becoming, in the above example, a Nazi oneself?

And wouldn't we all agree that 'Hitler was indeed a mass murderer'?

Those college students took the bull by the horns, and they paid dearly for it.

But yes, it may mean I end up getting associated with 'the undesirables' who use methods I neither endorse nor use myself.

[duain1967]

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(WorldNetDaily) - The four adult defendants who are part of the "Philadelphia 5," Christians who have been criminally charged for preaching at a homosexual event last fall, won a court battle today when a judge removed the bail requirement that they stay at least 100 feet away from any homosexual gathering. Read Details

 

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(WorldNetDaily) - One of the attorneys for the Christian protesters who are criminally charged for evangelizing at an outdoor homosexual event in Philadelphia has renewed an appeal in federal court, citing the Supreme Court statement "Speech cannot be ... punished or banned simply because it might offend a hostile mob." Read Details

 

VIDEO FOOTAGE OF THE "OUTFEST" ARRESTS



 

► Watch video footage of the "OutFest" arrests now!

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Left: The "Pink Angels" block and obstruct Repent America while ministering from the Word of God at the annual homosexual "OutFest" in the public streets of Center City Philadelphia on October 10. None of the "Pink Angels" were charged, while the Christians were arrested, jailed for 21 hours, and charged with 3 felonies and 5 misdemeanors. Philly Pride Presents, Inc., organizers of "OutFest", receives $22,500 per year from the City of Philadelphia to conduct such sin celebrations.


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Sign the 'Philadelphia 5' Petition in support of the Christians who are still being maliciously prosecuted by Philadelphia District Attorney Lynne Abraham's Office.

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In addition, encourage the U.S. Dept. of Justice to get involved by contacting Chief Albert Moskowitz in the Criminal Section of the Civil Rights Division at 202-514-4540, and Chief Shanetta Brown-Cutlar in Special Litigation at 202-514-6255.


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PHILADELPHIA - At a court hearing today in Philadelphia, a state court judge dissolved an order that had previously been entered against the four Christians with Repent America who are facing criminal charges for preaching at a homosexual event in October of 2004. Court of Common Pleas Judge Pamela Dembe lifted the ban that prohibited the four men from being within 100 feet of any homosexual event. Read Details

 

NEW EVIDENCE LEADS TO RENEWED APPEAL IN FEDERAL COURT FOR ARRESTED CHRISTIANS 1/12/05

PHILADELPHIA - New evidence leads to renewed appeal in federal court for arrested Christians “Speech cannot be . . . punished or banned simply because it might offend a hostile mob.”- United States Supreme Court. Read Details

 

REPORT SAYS HOMOSEXUAL U.S. ATTORNEYS COMPLICIT IN ARREST OF CHRISTIANS 1/6/05

PHILADELPHIA - A source from the U.S. Justice Department reported to WorldNetDaily that homosexual attorneys from the U.S. Justice Department Civil Rights Division attended a homosexual event called “OutFest” in Philadelphia last October and advised police who arrested 11 Christians at the event. Read Details



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National:

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