Is Jesus God? - Part Two

[nChrist]

This issue isn't subject to debate for Christians.

HOLY TRINITY - AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION

1 John 5:4-13 ASV  4  For whatsoever is begotten of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that hath overcome the world, even our faith.  5  And who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?  6  This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood.  7  And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is the truth.  8  For there are three who bear witness, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and the three agree in one.  9  If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for the witness of God is this, that he hath borne witness concerning his Son.  10  He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in him: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he hath not believed in the witness that God hath borne concerning his Son.  11  And the witness is this, that God gave unto us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  12  He that hath the Son hath the life; he that hath not the Son of God hath not the life.  13  These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God.


HOLY TRINITY - AMPLIFIED VERSION

1 John 5:4-13 AMP  4  For whatever is born of God is victorious over the world; and this is the victory that conquers the world, even our faith.  5  Who is it that is victorious over [that conquers] the world but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on that fact]?  6  This is He Who came by (with) water and blood [His baptism and His death], Jesus Christ (the Messiah)--not by (in) the water only, but by (in) the water and the blood. And it is the [Holy] Spirit Who bears witness, because the [Holy] Spirit is the Truth.  7  So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One;  8  and there are three witnesses on the earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree [are in unison; their testimony coincides].  9  If we accept [as we do] the testimony of men [if we are willing to take human authority], the testimony of God is greater (of stronger authority), for this is the testimony of God, even the witness which He has borne regarding His Son.  10  He who believes in the Son of God [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] has the testimony [possesses this divine attestation] within himself. He who does not believe God [in this way] has made Him out to be and represented Him as a liar, because he has not believed (put his faith in, adhered to, and relied on) the evidence (the testimony) that God has borne regarding His Son.  11  And this is that testimony (that evidence): God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.  12  He who possesses the Son has that life; he who does not possess the Son of God does not have that life.  13  I write this to you who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) the name of the Son of God [in the peculiar services and blessings conferred by Him on men], so that you may know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have life, yes, eternal life.

HOLY TRINITY - NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION

1 John 5:4-13 NIV  4  for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.  5  Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.  6  This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.  7  For there are three that testify:  8  the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.  9  We accept man's testimony, but God's testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son.  10  Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. Anyone who does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because he has not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.  11  And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.  12  He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.  13  I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

[kittenshere]

Pastor Roger, Im sorry you feel that way. have a nice day and be safe.

[nChrist]

This is a closed issue except for the lost and cult members who are also lost.

JESUS CHRIST IS GOD

AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION

John 14:6-11 ASV  6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.  7  If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.  8  Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.  9  Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and dost thou not know me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; how sayest thou, Show us the Father?  10  Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I say unto you I speak not from myself: but the Father abiding in me doeth his works.  11  Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.


AMPLIFIED VERSION

John 14:6-11 AMP  6  Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.  7  If you had known Me [had learned to recognize Me], you would also have known My Father. From now on, you know Him and have seen Him.  8  Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father [cause us to see the Father--that is all we ask]; then we shall be satisfied.  9  Jesus replied, Have I been with all of you for so long a time, and do you not recognize and know Me yet, Philip? Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father. How can you say then, Show us the Father?  10  Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in Me? What I am telling you I do not say on My own authority and of My own accord; but the Father Who lives continually in Me does the (His) works (His own miracles, deeds of power).  11  Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me; or else believe Me for the sake of the [very] works themselves. [If you cannot trust Me, at least let these works that I do in My Father's name convince you.]


NEW INTERNATIONAL VERSION

John 14:6-11 NIV  6  Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  7  If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."  8  Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."  9  Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?  10  Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.  11  Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

[nChrist]

Pastor Roger, Im sorry you feel that way. have a nice day and be safe.

It isn't a matter of how we feel, rather of a BIBLE FACT AND BOLD TRUTH, part of the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. This one isn't a matter of opinion except for the lost. If you need someone to feel sorry for, feel sorry for those who try to rob Jesus Christ of His Absolute Divinity. "Blasphemy" is the word.

[David_james]

Amen Brothers.

[margalicious]

  Is Jesus God? = Definitely YES!

Jesus Christ is Our Lord God and Saviour. He created all things according to His purpose.
Even you who are reading this. God created you. 





(Modified by moderator to remove link to advertisement.)

[nChrist]

  Is Jesus God? = Definitely YES!

Jesus Christ is Our Lord God and Saviour. He created all things according to His purpose.
Even you who are reading this. God created you.  :)





(Modified by moderator to remove link to advertisement.)

I see this is one of your first posts, so WELCOME!

I hope you enjoy Christians Unite, and I look forward to having fellowship with you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[seasquall]

I looked through many of the posts on this. sincereheart was right on with 1st Timothy 3:16. And forgive me if this verse was mentioned, but I did not see it.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

One of the most difficult things to do, is to try and rationalize God and godliness from a humanistic viewpoint. Have you ever tried ( When I first accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior,
I freaked over this one.) imagining God never have being born? No beginning? To our rationalistic minds, it seems impossible. We got over that though.

Please look to 1st Corinthians 2:10-16, pray to God, in the name of Jesus, for revelation on this matter. Be pure in your intent to find the truth, and you will. Jesus the Christ, is in fact God manifest
in the flesh. (And 1st John 4:7.)

  With love, to all who posted their views.
  1st John 4:19,20

[nChrist]

Hello Seasquall,

Sadly, there are are many false religions and cults that try to marginalize Jesus Christ or deny His Absolute Deity. This is much more serious than first glance since Jesus Christ is the only way to Salvation. The devil is busy these days trying to take Glory away from Jesus Christ, but the devil's time is growing short. The devil will have one of his last flings soon and be put in his place by Jesus Christ.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Brother Jerry]

Amen.

I have to say just a couple of things to maybe help any who wonder.  I have recently been discussing this with someone who also believed that the 3 are not one.  Their argument was simple...Jesus said He was the Son of God...He has a Father, and has a God...so Jesus thus cannot also be God.  This is a very weak argument on many levels.

However in order to support their stance they stuck with the verses that clearly stated Jesus has a Father and has a God, and Jesus said He was the Son.  Early on I had pegged the person a Jehovah Witness and it became more clear as the debate went on.  Support came from attempts to "re-translate" the Bible in order to support their means.  A primary example of this is John 1:1 they take the words "Word was God" and translate it to "Word was a god."  He justified this becuase in the original Greek there was no article before 'theos,' so they feel it should be translated as 'a god.'   

Another area of contention that I had gone into is the many times people worship Jesus, this is evident of strangers, on up to the apostles are seen as worshiping Jesus.  This person tried to state that the word should not be translated as worship, but should be obeisance, which is to show deep respect to a person or spirit being.  Bowing is a sign of this respect since people used to bow to their king.

Now some core problems with these two key areas. 

John 1:1.  In other locations even in John such as John 1:6, 12, 13, 18 all use the no definite article and are translated as God and not a god.  It is only in reference to a verse that would directly state that the Word, which was Jesus as explained in verse 14, was God.  So besides translational issues there is another issue...if we are going to say that the Word, which is Jesus, is a god, how do we reconcile the many verses that state that there is only one God?  We cannot without having to change even more of the Bible to fit the view.  So this verse obviously cannot be translated as anything other that 'God' or even 'Divine,' since divine is specific to being God.

On the issue of worship.  People that argue that Jesus is not God have to remove the text that state that people worshiped Jesus.  Cause it would be obvious that if someone were to worship Jesus, then He is either God, or God was about to get real mad.  No they will change the verses that talk about people worshiping Jesus and substitute bowing, or doing obeisance, or something else that does not show worship.  Now the same word is used when talking about God and they leave it at worship, because they will state that when it is done in reference to God it should be worship.  However there is a failure because they do not change in reference to the temptations of Christ, where Satan told Jesus to worship him, nor did they change it when the people went to worship Peter, or when John worshiped the angel.  At these points it is still left as worship and not changed...again only when it is directly related to the diety of Jesus are those verses changed.

There is some logical deductions for you as well to back up the plethora of scripture out there.  you can check my work and I would recommend that you do.

[Soldier4Christ]

There are many instances in which they translate the word 'theos' to be 'a god' yet in others to be 'God'. Their translation is always inconsistent simply because they refuse to accept the truth.

[David_james]

I came up with an argument to prove Jesus is God.

If a cat and dog were to have an offspring, you would have to call it half cat and half dog. If you say, it isn't a cat, you'd have to say it isn't a dog.
Going back to Jesus, is he part God part human or something different?
We know he is part human, therefore he is, at least, part God. However, there is only one God, therefore Jesus must be God.

[Soldier4Christ]

Brother David, there is only one thing wrong with your statement. Jesus was not part man, part God. He was fully man and fully God.


Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Scripture says that he was fully human. John 1:14 tells us that the Word became flesh. He didn't just look like it, he didn't just pretend. He actually became flesh. His hunger was real, his tiredness was real, his pain was real, his death was real. When his flesh was subjected to more stress than it could handle, he died. Philippians 2:7-8 says he was in the form and shape of a human being. He was a human being.

Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Php 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

[David_james]

Okay, thank you bro. I had a feeling that something wasn't quite right with it.

[nChrist]

Hello Brother David and All,

We are just humans, and our natural way of doing things is to apply human logic. This doesn't work with Almighty God. His ways are beyond Human understanding - first because of His unmeasurable Might and Majesty - second because of His Triune Deity - third because of His no beginning and no ending - and it goes on and on. He creates something out of nothing and is not bound by any natural laws of nature. Why? - He set the laws of nature in place and is the author of them. He is all-knowing and all-seeing - down to the smallest detail like the time a sparrow falls from the sky. He is the King of Kings, yet He loved us enough to die for us and take our punishment in His own Holy Body. Yes, Jesus Christ was fully God and fully man, and no combination of powers could have forced Him to the Cross. He went willingly because He loves us. We can't possibly understand all of it, but we can believe it. He will reveal more to us at His Appointed Time, and that Time might be soon. Man thinks of limits on everything, but God has no limits except His Holy Nature to always tell the truth and keep all of His Promises. His Promises to us are also so wonderful that they are really beyond human imagination, but they will be kept perfectly. We think of beauty from the limited perspective of man, but God speaks of beauty and peace that are unknown to man. It's wonderful just to think about and know that we are Children of the King of Kings.

Love In Christ,
Tom

"In regard to this Great Book, I have but to say, it is the best gift God has given to man. All the good the Savior gave to the world was communicated through this book."
Abraham Lincoln