Anti Christian Lawless Union update, also known as the ACLU

[Shammu]

From the ACLU website
ACLU Link

Pentagon Agrees to End Direct Sponsorship of Boy Scout Troops in Response to Religious Discrimination Charge
   
November 15, 2004

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

CHICAGO - In response to a religious discrimination lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union of Illinois, the Defense Department today agreed to end direct sponsorship of hundreds of Boy Scout units, which require members to swear religious oaths, on military facilities across the United States and overseas.

"If our Constitution's promise of religious liberty is to be a reality, the government should not be administering religious oaths or discriminating based upon religious beliefs," said Adam Schwartz of the ACLU of Illinois. "This agreement removes the Pentagon from direct sponsorship of Scout troops that engage in religious discrimination."

Previously, Defense Department units held charters to lead hundreds of Boy Scout troops and Cub Scout packs, which exclude youths who do not believe in God. Additionally, the Boy Scouts of America requires troop and pack leaders, in this case government employees, to compel youth to swear an oath of duty to God. The ACLU of Illinois charged that the Boy Scouts’ policy violates the religious liberty of youth who wish to participate but do not wish to swear a religious oath, and that direct government sponsorship of such a program is religious discrimination.

Today’s settlement addresses a major portion of a lawsuit first filed in 1999. In that lawsuit, the ACLU of Illinois challenged the use of public funds by the Chicago Public Schools, the Defense Department and the Department of Housing and Urban Development to support Boy Scout troops. The Chicago Public Schools previously entered into a settlement agreeing to stop their direct sponsorship of Boy Scout troops.

Under the terms of today's settlement, the Defense Department has 60 days to issue a statement to U.S. defense facilities and military bases across the world making clear that Defense officials may not sponsor Boy Scout organizations. The settlement, however, does not prohibit off-duty government employees from sponsoring Boy Scout troops on their own time. The Boy Scouts will still also have access to any military facilities that are currently made available to other non-governmental organizations.

"It is critical that the Pentagon send this very clear signal to its units across the globe to ensure that government officials are not engaged in religious discrimination in their official capacity," said Charles Peters of the Chicago law firm Schiff Hardin who assisted the ACLU of Illinois in the lawsuit.

The federal court in Chicago still must decide whether the Defense Department and the Department of Housing and Urban Development can spend millions of taxpayer dollars to support Boy Scout units that practice religious discrimination and require religious oaths. The ACLU of Illinois has raised concern, for example, about the Pentagon's handpicking the Boy Scouts of America - and no other organization - for the expenditure of an average of $2 million each year to support the national Boy Scout Jamboree. A decision on this and other issues is pending.

The agreement was presented to U.S. District Court Judge Blanche Manning. In addition to Peters, Laura Friedel and David Scott of Schiff Hardin are also assisting the ACLU of Illinois in the case.

[Saved_4ever]

Though I agree the American Communist Loser Union is anti Christian and I am not in favor of them I can't say the ruling goes against the law.

The government isn't allowed to give money to churches either and churches that file for tax exempt status aren't allowed to back political canidates.  It just means the boyscouts have to go about business differently and money needs to be given in some other way.

It's unfortunate that our constitution and its ideas were written by lawyers who never thought that all sorts of other religions (non judeao-christian) would flood this country or that God would slowly be pushed out.  This is how it is though and we need to fight back when it is within the confines of the "law of the land".

Give unto Ceasar what is Ceaser's and unto God waht is God's.

[Brother Love]

Though I agree the American Communist Loser Union is anti Christian and I am not in favor of them I can't say the ruling goes against the law.

The government isn't allowed to give money to churches either and churches that file for tax exempt status aren't allowed to back political canidates.  It just means the boyscouts have to go about business differently and money needs to be given in some other way.

It's unfortunate that our constitution and its ideas were written by lawyers who never thought that all sorts of other religions (non judeao-christian) would flood this country or that God would slowly be pushed out.  This is how it is though and we need to fight back when it is within the confines of the "law of the land".

Give unto Ceasar what is Ceaser's and unto God waht is God's.

"TWO"UP

[Bronzesnake]

 America was built on Christian principles. Her great Universities were all started by the Christian Church. 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian.

 We can't be all things to all people. The beauty of America is that immigrants are not forced to convert to Christianity, and are free to worship in any religion. They can build their own places of worship, they can canvas for funds and converts etc. The ACLU represents a huge minority of the population, and in a democratic society the majority is supposed to rule.

 Immigrants come to America to escape repressive regimes where, in many instances, you can be executed or jailed for having a particular religious belief which goes against the Islamic population. These people would be more than grateful to be in a country where they are free from such violent oppression, however, once they arrive, they quickly become aware of our warped system, where organizations such as the ACLU can be used to gain a feeling of equal religious status. This is accomplished by squashing the countries founding religion - Christianity. Immigrants become emboldened to have an attitude of  "hey, why should your religion get funding and benefits, and we can't?" We have become a nation of "all" religions, instead of a Christian nation.
In other words, we have been forced by an agenda based organization which represents a giant minority of the democratic population to water down our Christian roots under the false pretence of "equal religious rights" for all. The real mission of such organizations as the ACLU is not equal rights at all - it's nothing less than death to creation based religion.

 These heroes will even fight their battles on the backs of children! and to what end? A lot of children will no longer be associated with an organization which teaches principles, values, respect, and responsibility to our children, while having a great time, and gaining life experiences through camping trips and outings.

 Well done ACLU! How many of these children will be left with nothing to do but hang out in the streets for entertainment, without any moral guidance?

 Gee, I wonder why our society is falling apart?
No praying in school, no Ten Commandments in school, no Bibles in school, no God in school.
 Life habits and attitudes are imprinted at an early age, even the secular "professionals" such as doctor Phil will tell you that.

 The Christian community leaders need to get into the courts and have atheism defined as a religion so we can begin to use the secular court system to fight back.

Bronzesnake

[Soldier4Christ]

While Christian Churches are being suppressed, the ACLU is fighting for Muslims to have those rights that are being taken away from Christians.

In my area a Christian church was required to stop playing Christian music from its steeple because it annoyed the neighbors. This has been a practice done by this church for many years to play this music just before services on Sunday and on Wednesday evenings.

In a nearby community a Muslim church was given the right to broadcast their chants (prayers) over load speakers, that can be heard by the entire town, several times every day of the week. They also have been permitted to stand on street corners as they choose to chant and recruit while the Christian groups have been denied that same right.

The ACLU was behind bringing both of these situations about. The ACLU is definitely not supporting equal rights.

[bemanisuperstar]

Can't you all live with the fact there are faiths other than our own?

How many of you know that True muslims are called to helrald Jews and Christians not only as their equels but also as having true faiths.

[Soldier4Christ]

Can't you all live with the fact there are faiths other than our own?

How many of you know that True muslims are called to helrald Jews and Christians not only as their equels but also as having true faiths.

No one said anything about that here. The point being made is the ACLU is fighting to keep us from having the same rights as others. They go to court to prevent Christians from doing something and then go to court so others can do what they just stopped us from doing. All of this in a country that is about equal tights by an organization that is supposed to be for equal rights.

[Kalthzar]

Who else here is a non-american watching with slight amusement as they complain about the constitution? (in a round about way)

Its kinda double edged really isn't it.

[Bronzesnake]

Can't you all live with the fact there are faiths other than our own?

How many of you know that True muslims are called to helrald Jews and Christians not only as their equels but also as having true faiths.

 Did you read any posts before you made that comment?

 Bronzesnake

[nChrist]

Can't you all live with the fact there are faiths other than our own?

How many of you know that True muslims are called to helrald Jews and Christians not only as their equels but also as having true faiths.

That would be impossible while rejecting Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, Very God.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Saved_4ever]

America was built on Christian principles. Her great Universities were all started by the Christian Church. 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian.

This is a very two edged sword and you know it.  While we like to use this number because it seems to help our cause we know that that same number is shaky.  I have heard people that wouldn't know as much about Jesus as they do about buddah and call themselves christian.  The number works when we want to claim the majority but those same people work against when they support the episcopal church and a gay bishop.  So while we like to claim the gay supporting episcopal church members as christians they go against the very grain of the word.  Then we say they aren't christians or don't etc etc.  

The other thing to remember is we are not really a democracy but a republic.  This is so we keep mob rule out of the picture.  The whole reason we have the electoral college in place is to make things "fair".  Otherwise you wouldn't have elections where the president didn't have the popular vote as in Bill Clintons second run he only had about 42% of the popular vote but enough electoral college votes to win the race.  42% is obviously WAY under half or even more than half the country voting for him.

We are a republic so that we have checks and balances on everyone.  Granted they seem to be really skewed latley but WE have ALL let this happen.  It wasn't just the ACLU that put us where we are.  Those  same 76% of claiming christians didn't vote against these things or put people in power to do as we felt.  They didn't stand up against the whole PC and liberal crowd.  They didn't instill God fearing good biblical moral principles to their children.  MOST of the people I meet that claim to champion christianity have not a clue what God has to say or what He wants either.

You stand on quite rickety soapbox bronze.  I love you as a brother and appreciate your vigor but you are missing much.  God's plan WILL NEVER be foiled.  It will go as planned and we have choice to have God work with us or around us.  It seems this last time the people have spoken to work with God.  If we keep that up things will change.  We are lucky enough to be allowed to vote and change things in our country but regardless of where the govn't sways we are still to obide by those laws because the word commands it.

The problem with the U.S. is that we were founded on unchristian principles.  We felt we had a right to fight against the "powers that be" because we didn't like how much they taxed us.  It showed little faith in the Christians of that time as we are told to obey our masters and Give unto Ceasar what is Ceaser's and unto God what is God's.  

These heroes will even fight their battles on the backs of children! and to what end? A lot of children will no longer be associated with an organization which teaches principles, values, respect, and responsibility to our children, while having a great time, and gaining life experiences through camping trips and outings.

 Well done ACLU! How many of these children will be left with nothing to do but hang out in the streets for entertainment, without any moral guidance?

I must have missed the part where it said the BSA had to disband and give up its rules and beliefs.  It just can't have them and get federal funding.  I was a boy scout and far from christian as well.  I even went to the national Jamboree when I was in 6th grade.  Wow was that an experience only 12 and I was in another state with people I didn't know.  My mom still questions her judgment on that one.  I certianly didn't believe in God because of the boy scouts and the things actual boy scouts do are ummm yeah.....

So the BSA will not disappear as a whole or anything so where are you coming from.  We had "dues" when I was there so.

[Shammu]

Can't you all live with the fact there are faiths other than our own?

How many of you know that True muslims are called to helrald Jews and Christians not only as their equels but also as having true faiths.

Excuse me but, True muslims refure to Muhammad as a prophet. What It Means To Be Prophet Like Unto Moses

There are five outstanding characteristics that have to be met. The Bible teaches that Moses is different than all the other Old Testament prophets. To be the prophet like Moses of Deuteronomy 18, these five characteristics have to be met. These requirements follow:

1. God spoke directly to Moses. All other prophets received their revelation by visions or dreams. Moses' revelation was directly from the mouth of God. "And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?" (Num. 12:6-8).
2. Moses was in the direct presence of God. He saw the similitude or form of the LORD. Moses glowed from being in direct presence of God's glory. "And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him" (Exod. 34:29-30).
3. Moses brought in a blood covenant relationship with God. The other prophets built upon this covenant, but no other Old Testament prophet brought in a different covenant. "And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words. Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God
of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness" (Exod. 24:8-10).
4. Moses did mighty signs and wonders. God used Moses to split the Red Sea. " And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the LORD caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left" (Exod. 14:21-22).
5. Moses prophesied of the future. Moses gave entire chapters of prophecy. His prophecy centered on the people and nation of Israel. "Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. ... And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD" (Lev. 26:42,44-45).
6. The prophet has to be a Jew. The Prophet like Moses will have to come from one of the tribes of Israel. The context of Deutromony 18 makes it clear that the brethren means someone from one of the 12 tribes of Israel.  Deuteronomy 18:1,2,7,15 The priests the Levites, and all the tribe of Levi, shall have no part nor inheritance with Israel... 2 Therefore shall they have no inheritance among their brethren: the LORD is their inheritance, as he hath said unto them. 7 Then he shall minister in the name of the LORD his God, as all his brethren the Levites do, which stand there before the LORD.   15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;

Using the five criteria of Moses being a special prophet, let's test the Muslim's claim that Muhammad is the special prophet like Moses which the Koran claims.
1. God spoke directly with Moses. Muhammad fails because the Koran shows he received his message from an angel. "Then I swear by the angels who bring down the revelation" (Sura 77:5). "Say: Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel— for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers" (Sura 2:97).
2. The Koran never reported that Muhammad was literally in the direct presence of God.
3. Muhammad never brought in a blood covenant with God, but his message went directly against the revealed word of God. Muhammad denied the basis for the New Testament covenant which is the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross. "And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa (Jesus) son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so" (Sura 4:157).
4. The Koran reports no signs and wonders of Muhammad.
5. Muhammad made no prophecies in the Koran. The Muslims call Sura 30 the Great Prophecy: This Sura is often used as proof Muhammad was a prophet. "The Romans are vanquished, In a near land, and they, after being vanquished, shall overcome, Within a few years. Allah's is the command before and after; and on that day the believers shall rejoice"
 6. Muhammad was not a Jew. This just by itself eliminates Muhammad from being the Prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18.

Enough of this garbage, theres proof that muslim/islam is a cult.
To read the whole artical go to the link
Moses vs. garbage

Go in peace to God, know your Lord.
Bob

[Bronzesnake]

saved 4 ever quote...

This is a very two edged sword and you know it.  While we like to use this number because it seems to help our cause we know that that same number is shaky.  I have heard people that wouldn't know as much about Jesus as they do about buddah and call themselves christian.  The number works when we want to claim the majority but those same people work against when they support the episcopal church and a gay bishop.  So while we like to claim the gay supporting episcopal church members as christians they go against the very grain of the word.  Then we say they aren't christians or don't etc etc.  

 If I were arguing Christian doctrine you would have a point.
Please re-read the line...

 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian.

 Nowhere in that statement does it even imply any specific denomination or doctrinal belief.

Bronzesnake