When Was Christ Born

[Shammu]

Since in my halloween thread, the subject of Jesus was born durning what time.....

Yeshua (Jesus) Birth

This may be a bit deep for newbies (those ew to Christianty,) but hang in there - it is worth the struggle to read, (if you happen to have a struggle, to read and understand it)............and do get your Bibles out to verify this dissertation.  I think you will find it most interesting and in some cases enlightening)

For those of you who may not know why most people celebrate the December 25th, date - here is the history of its establishment in a nut shell.  To better help you to better read the below, remember that Hebrew has NO J's and some other letters - so when it is "transliterated" often it is spelled a number of different ways.  For instance: Jerusalem - Yerushalayim

The Hebrew Calendar is based on the Moon, not the Gregorian Calendar we use.  Therefore, some months are referred to with their Hebrew name for instance : Kislev (our December) , etc.

Below you will find the word SUKKOT (which means temporary dwelling) spelled SUKKOT - and Succot and succah, and other variations.  Hanukkah is another word which has many English spellings, including Chanukah, and others.

It would take much to long for me to change all the transliterations below.  As a help, these are some of the definitions:

Yeshua - the Hebrew name of Jesus

The Feast of God - or God's Appointed Times - Lev. 23

Yochanan - John

The Hebrew Months are also used, and they relate to the Time and Place

Beth-Lechem - Bethlehem

Natzeret  - Nazareth

Jerusalem - Yerushalayim

AN IN DEPTH STUDY OF WHEN JESUS (YESHUA) WAS BORN YESHUA (JESUS) BIRTH & JOHN THE BAPTIST

His birth, about AM 3750 - 3756 (10 - 4 BC), was expectantly awaited (Matthew 2:1-18.)because within about 40 years Daniel's prophecy concerning Him[2] must be fulfilled.  (Daniel's prophecy) [ "Know also and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to cause to return and to build Jerusalem, unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks." Daniel 9:25]

(Now we shall count from the date Nehemiah came to Jerusalem in the 20th year of this same Artaxerxes, while Ezra still continued there, Neh. 12:3,6, and found the city lying waste, and the houses and wall unbuilt, Neh. 2:17; 7:4, and finished the wall the 25th day of the month Elul, Neh. 6:15, in the 8th year of the King, that is, in September in the year (437 - 436 BC). Count now from this year threescore and two weeks of years, that is 434 years, and the reckoning will end in September. If we check this date with the last prophecy we can see that Jesus the Christ was born in September of the year 2 B.C.)

The prophet Mikha (Micah) wrote that He was destined to be born in Beth-Lechem (Bethlehem) - the House of Bread.(Mikha 5:1 / Micah 5:2.)(God called Him the Bread from Heaven,[4] though men say Manna[5] - (What is It?) It was because of this prophecy that King Herod had the children of Beth-Lechem killed, to protect his throne against the coming promised king.

 The rabbis who translated the Septuagint (A Hebrew to Greek translation of the Bible by 70 rabbis in about 150 BC) taught from the prophet YeshaYahu (Yeshayah (Isaiah) that He would be born of a virgin ( Isaiah 7:14.) and would be called Immanuel, God with Us.

In the expected time and place, on the Feast of Sukkoth (Feast of Tabernacles), in a succah (tabernacle, temporary dwelling) where Passover lambs were raised in the city of the shepherd David, a Son was born to a virgin descended from that David.  At an angel's command, He was named Yeshua, meaning "The LORD is Salvation."  God would dwell with us in a succah of humanity that would be bruised by the serpent, then crush that old serpent!

When Zekharya (Zechariah) was ministering in the temple, he received an announcement from God of a coming son.  The eighth course of Abia, [1 Chronicles 24:10;  Apostolic Writings: Luke 1:5.] when Zekharya was ministering, was the week of Sivan 12 to 18.  If Zekharya's promised son Yochanan (Yochanan (John) the baptizer) were conceived soon thereafter, then Yeshua's conception, which was six months later, would be late Chiselev to early Tevet, near Chanukah (the Feast of Dedication); His birth would thence be at mid Tishri (October), the Feast of Sukkoth (Tabernacles).

Let's think through this again:

If Yochanan (John) the Baptist was conceived in the eleventh week, the third Sabbath week of Sivan, Yeshua   would have been conceived six months later in the month of Kislev. Mary would have conceived Yeshua after the third Sabbath of Kislev, approximately Kislev 19-26. Kislev 25 is Chanukah.

 It is noteworthy that our Messiah, the "light of the world", was conceived on the festival of lights (Chanukah)!

 So, six months after Yochanan (John) the Baptist is born, Yeshua is born. Therefore, since Yochanan (John) was born on the 15th day of the first month (Nisan), Yeshua (Jesus) would be born on the 15th day of the seventh month (Tishri - October)...six months later. The 15th day of the seventh month is known as Sukkoth, or the Feast of Tabernacles.

Since John was born on Passover, the 15th day of Nisan (the 1st Jewish month), Yeshua (Jesus) would have been born six months later on approximately the 15th day of Tishri (the 7th Jewish month). The 15th day of the 7th month begins the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev. 23:34-35), also known as Sukkot. Yeshua (Jesus was born on the 1st day of the Feast of Tabernacles!

Yeshua (Jesus) was born approximately on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles,in the fall of the year. To be exact, He was born on approximately Tishri 15, which this year is the eve of October 10th and the day of October 11th, 2003.

This birth date rotates with the Jewish calendar, so that means

that next year, 2004, it will be on a different date on our Gentile calendars. It might be easier to remember to simply say that Yeshua's   (Jesus) birthday is approximately the first day of the feast of Tabernacles

(Booths, Succoth, Ingathering).

This explains why there was no room at the inn for Joseph and Mary. A multitude of Jewish pilgrims from all over the Middle East had come to Jerusalem to observe the Feast of Tabernacles, as God required (Deu. 16:16). Bethlehem, which was only a few miles outside of Jerusalem,(5 miles to be exact) was also overflowing with visitors at this time because of the Feast.

The feast of Sukkot (Tabernacles) is called "the season of our joy" and "the feast of the nations". With this in mind, in Luke 2:10 it is written:"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of GREAT JOY (the season of our joy) which shall be to ALL

PEOPLE (the feast of the nations)"

We are given a clue about the time of the birth by the angel who appeared to the shepherds and said "Do not be afraid. I bring you good news of great joy that will be for all the people". (Luke 2:10). There are actually two clues here. Sukkot is a festival of joy, and it is also known as the "Festival of the Nations (or Gentiles)". The angel was actually giving them a greeting for the Festival of Sukkot. This is the only festival where the nations (ALL PEOPLE,  NOT JUST JEWS) are positively encouraged to participate. (Z'chariyahu 14:16-19).

We find an allusion to Yeshua's birth during Sukkoth in Yochanan (John)'s gospel:

Yochanan (John) 1:14  The Word became flesh and made his dwelling (succah) among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

The seventh month of the Jewish calendar is the month of the Feast of Tabernacles. John 1:14, speaking of Jesus as the Word, says: "And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth." The word "dwelt" that is used here is the Greek word "skenoo" which literally means "to tabernacle"!

The Greek word translated "tabernacle" above is eskenosen. This word is a form of skenoo (#4637 in Strong's Greek Concordance). While it is usually translated "dwelt," Strong's says this word literally means: "to fix one's tabernacle, have one's tabernacle, abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent), tabernacle . . ."

WHEN YESHUA WAS CONCEIVED

Now the reason that the information about John is important, is because according to Luke, Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the sixth month of Elisabeth's pregnancy:

Luke 1:24 And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

Luke 1:25 Thus hath the Lord dealt with me in the days wherein he looked on me, to take away my reproach among men.

Luke 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,

Luke 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

[Shammu]

Note that verse 26 above refers to the sixth month of Elisabeth's pregnancy, not Elul, the sixth month of the Hebrew calendar, and this is made plain by the context of verse 24 and again in verse 36:

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

Now working from the information about John's conception late in the third month, Sivan, and advancing six months, we arrive late in the 9th month of Kislev (Nov-Dec) for the time frame for the conception of Jesus. It is notable here that the first day of the Jewish festival of Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, is celebrated on the 25th day of Kislev, and Jesus is called the light of the world (John 8:12, 9:5, 12:46). This does not appear to be a mere coincidence. In the book of John, Hanukkah is called the feast of dedication (John 10:22). Hanukkah is an eight day festival, celebrating the relighting of the menorah in the rededicated Temple, which according to the story, stayed lit miraculously for eight days on only one day's supply of oil.

7 DAYS IN THE BOOTH (SUKKAH) AND CIRCUMCISION

Eight days after his birth, in accordance with the Law of Moses, Jesus was circumcised on the Last Great Day, another holy day of God (Lev. 23:36).

LUKE 2:21 And when eight days were completed for the circumcision of the child, His name was called Yeshua, the name given by the angel before He was conceived in the womb. (NKJV)

Eight days later, according to Luke 2:21, he was circumcised, probably NOT in the Beit HaMikdash (Temple) as some suppose, but in Beit Lechem, probably in the Sukkah where he was born. Mary would still be ceremonially unclean for 33 days after the circumcision according to ViYikrah (Leviticus) 12. Besides, she would be unlikely to travel to Y'rushali'im (Jerusalem) so soon after the birth even though it was not very far.

When the days of Mary's purification were over (33 days after the circumcision), they would have made their way to Jerusalem to sacrifice a pair of doves or young pigeons. (Luke 2:22-24). Then they went back to Natzeret (Nazareth) (Luke 2:39).

WEATHER - THE SHEPHERDS - THE WEATHER - THE TAXES

The month of Tishri (in the fall - normally our October) also fits with the season of shepherds being out with their flocks by night, as they were when Yeshua was born; during winter the lambs are kept indoors.  The shepherds were in the fields with their flocks at night when Jesus was born. This clearly indicates that Jesus was born during the warmer seasons. During the coldest months like December or January, the shepherds didn't sleep in the fields but would bring their flocks indoors, or in mangers next to their houses, or in caves next to their dwellings.

There is a remark in the Talmud, that flocks were put out to grass in March and brought in during the beginning of November. During the Jewish month of Heshvan (our October/November) the fall rains hit and the animals are penned up. Bethlehem is some 2,500 feet above sea level, and snowfall was common in winter.

Since Yeshua was born in semi "open to the elements" shelter,   had it not been temperate weather, they certainly would have begged and sought warmer shelter for the birth.

ANOTHER REASON WE CAN SEE YESHUA WAS BORN DURING THE FEAST OF TABERNACLES

During the Feast of Tabernacles, God required all male Jews to come to Jerusalem. The many pilgrims coming to Jerusalem for the festivals would spill over to the surrounding towns (Bethlehem is about five miles from Jerusalem). Joseph and Mary were unable to find a room at the inn because of the influx of so many pilgrims because of the Feast of Tabernacles & Augustus' tax. They may have been given shelter in a Sukkah (a booth, the temporary dwelling built during this feast), which is built during a seven-day period each year accompanying the celebration of the Feast of Tabernacles. Due to the difficulties during travel, it was common for the officials to declare tax time during a temple Feast. (Luke 2:1)

TAX TIME

Roman Emperor Augustus needed money. Like all grand rulers before and since, he decided the best way to get this was not to go out and find a real job, but to tax people.

Luke 2:1-3   And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be    taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.

Imagine  you are the Caesar of Rome, and want to collect a tax from your subjects. When would you do this? First ask yourself what kind of work do most of your people do? In Jesus time most people were farmers, or herdsmen.

When do you tax farmers, and herdsmen? Do you tax them in the spring when they have no crop, and are planting? Do you tax them in the middle of winter after they have killed their animals: sold the meat, and spent the money, or do you tax them at harvest time, just before slaughter  when they would have fat animals and abundant crops. The answer is obvious. You tax them at harvest time.

THIS PORTION IS "FOOD FOR THOUGHT"

If you are at all familiar with all the major events which God had to coincide with His Appointed Times, then this is easily understood.  Much of God's eternal plan are consistently fulfilled on His special days.  Not surprisingly, we find Messiah Yeshua dying on the cross as our PASSOVER lamb on the very day of Pescha   (Passover).  He lay in the grave on "The Feast of Unleven Bread," and Messiah Yeshua, arose on the "Feast of First Fruits."   Remember the NT refers to Yeshua twice as "the first fruit) 1 Corinthians 15:20

But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 1 Corinthians 15:23

But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The pouring out of the firstfruits of God's Holy Spirit likewise takes place on the appropriate holy day of Shavout (Pentecost).  Would such an important event as the birth of the Messiah go unheralded by one of these biblical feasts?   Of all the feasts of the Lord, Sukkot best illustrates the fat that God would dwell in the midst of His people through the presence of the Messiah.  It makes total sense, particularly when taken in the light of the above evidence, that this was literally fulfilled on the very day of Tabernacles.

That the birth of Yeshua took place on Sukkot is corroborated by many other evidences pointed out by Christian theologians.  Many of such evidences are discussed above, plus, some have noted that the chronological calculations of the Gospels lead us to the place the birth of Messiah in the late fall -  most agree that Yeshua's earthly ministry lasted three and one-half years.  Since we know he died on Passover (March/April), by back tracking we arrive at  Sukkot (September/October).


As the Scripture tells us -

Yeshua (Jesus) said: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me." Remember at the time Yeshua (Jesus) said this, the scriptures he was referring to was the Old Testament, (there was no NT) at that time. He was referring to what our Jewish brothers call The Torah.

In Berea

Acts: 17:10

As soon as it was night, the brothers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish synagogue. 11Now, the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

 Deuteronomy 4:29 But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

The evidence of the time of Yeshua's (Jesus') birth is clear in the Scriptures when we serious search and study it.  Unfortunately, if there is one area of study which 99.9% of true believers are lacking, that is a real understanding of the Old Testament, and their Hebrew Roots, which opens the doors to endless and eternal jewels.  When you read and study through "Hebrew" eyes, that is with an understanding of the culture and customs of the day, the Scripture Old and New comes alive, and it is like going from blindness to wonderful, endless sight!  I am forever thrilled at the insights which come into focus, the better I learn and understand my Hebrew Roots.

Remember Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jew - His sermons, teachings, etc., were directed to a Jewish audience who understood his parables as such related to their time, customs, and traditions. The better we know our Hebrew Roots the more we understand what Yeshua (Jesus) was saying.

[Evangelist]

December 25, 2 BC

[Chesed]

Evangelist -

December 25, 2 BC

December 25th was Mythra's birthday. Mythra was a pagan god/fake messiah.

Yesterday was Yeshua's birthday. My son and I made a "Happy Birthday Yeshua" cake with a little toothpick sukkah on top and sang happy birthday Yeah! Yeshua came to this earth to create a people He could tabernacle with.

 

[Evangelist]

December 25th was Mythra's birthday. Mythra was a pagan god/fake messiah.

Yesterday was Yeshua's birthday. My son and I made a "Happy Birthday Yeshua" cake with a little toothpick sukkah on top and sang happy birthday  Yeah! Yeshua came to this earth to create a people He could tabernacle with.

Click on the link (the date). Read slowly and carefully. It is well documented.  

[Brother Love]

When Was Christ Born?


I would say the week of the 15th of October

Read Acts chapter 29 verse 9


 

[Chesed]

Evangelist -

Do you have anything to say about what Dreamweaver has posted? It is also well documented.

I'd like to know what you think about this part of Dreamweavers post:

The month of Tishri (in the fall - normally our October) also fits with the season of shepherds being out with their flocks by night, as they were when Yeshua was born; during winter the lambs are kept indoors.  The shepherds were in the fields with their flocks at night when Jesus was born. This clearly indicates that Jesus was born during the warmer seasons. During the coldest months like December or January, the shepherds didn't sleep in the fields but would bring their flocks indoors, or in mangers next to their houses, or in caves next to their dwellings.

My husband lived in Israel for a while, it actually gets cold there during the winter. I believe it was last year or the year before that it snowed a good deal in Jerusalem in December.

Also, doesn't it just make sense that God arranged to have His son born on this Festival? It makes enough sense that Jesus died on Passover - I don't believe that to be a coincidence. How much farther of a stretch is it to say that Jesus was born on the Feast of Tabernacles? Or do you believe God just arbitrarily picked these strange holidays for Israel to follow for no particular reason, just to do away with them later? That doesn't make sense to me.

Take care,
Chesed

[Evangelist]

Do you have anything to say about what Dreamweaver has posted? It is also well documented.

I'd like to know what you think about this part of Dreamweavers post:

Quote:


The month of Tishri (in the fall - normally our October) also fits with the season of shepherds being out with their flocks by night, as they were when Yeshua was born; during winter the lambs are kept indoors.  The shepherds were in the fields with their flocks at night when Jesus was born. This clearly indicates that Jesus was born during the warmer seasons. During the coldest months like December or January, the shepherds didn't sleep in the fields but would bring their flocks indoors, or in mangers next to their houses, or in caves next to their dwellings.

My husband lived in Israel for a while, it actually gets cold there during the winter. I believe it was last year or the year before that it snowed a good deal in Jerusalem in December.

Also, doesn't it just make sense that God arranged to have His son born on this Festival? It makes enough sense that Jesus died on Passover - I don't believe that to be a coincidence. How much farther of a stretch is it to say that Jesus was born on the Feast of Tabernacles? Or do you believe God just arbitrarily picked these strange holidays for Israel to follow for no particular reason, just to do away with them later? That doesn't make sense to me.

Take care,
Chesed

Hi Chesed:
I have no problem at all with December being cold...or it being unseasonable warm, as has happened on occasion. And, it would make sense, wouldn't it, that if the weather were temperate, to take livestock outside for a bit? I also have no problem with the analysis and logic.  But, I tend to have a little less problem with the scientific analysis and regression of star charts to indicate a time.  They tend to be a bit more specific, since there is little or no room for error.  In consideration of the apparent fact that since the ending date (the crucifixion) seems to be right on the mark, wouldn't it also make sense that the beginning date (using the same star regression/procession) formulas would also be on the mark?

It is entirely plausible that God *might* or *could* have arranged to have Jesus born during the Feast of Tabernacles.....but since Scripture is not entirely clear and unambiguous on the matter, well......

I don't quite understand why you should ask (or imply) that I believe God may have set festivals for some arbitrary reason. I don't think I've said anything at all to give that impression.

Blessings,