US vs IRAQ

[Xith]

  First off, yes I agree oil is here to stay (for a good while), but how much and who produces it is the issue.  If we can be self sufficient in oil production, by using alternative fuel methods, then we can immediately save money and lose the dependencies.

  Secondly, where in the world do you get your information on Islam?  First off in Islam, yes, they believe in Jesus, he is a prophet, he died (but not by crucifixion according to them) and was raised up by God (Allah). He was without sin because he was a prophet, and his death for atonement was not required, because in Islam they believe that we are born without sin.  And that we gather it through life and must atone for it.  Just as well, they are NOT told to kill Christians on sight (I don't know who made this one up), and beheading of an innocent (meaning a non-combatant) is forbidden.  Also, Islam is about peace and being responsible for one's actions (meaning not killing people, and doing God's work).  It is also strictly forbidden to try and force someone to convert to Islam (the convert must come willingly).  

   The atrocities we see are just that, atrocities.  It is not supported by the bulk of the Islamic community.  You just have to consider the fact that, this is a people who got left behind a long long time ago, they used to be the central hub of the world until the Renaissance hit and moved everything to eastern Europe.  They have been the center of endless fighting for decades.  The people are probably stretched to the limit.  With every side of the world tugging at them, and with radicals (most of which are very young) going off on these tangents of declaring Jihad for retribution.  They just need to be calmed down and set into the modern age.

  Look up the UAE (United Arab Emirates) on google, it's a capitalistic arabic state ,7 actually, very successful and is a major launching place for corporations, it is also the number 1 place suggested to visit in the Middle East, most likely due to its safety for foreigners and its tourist industry
 

[Sulfurdolphin]

 I, have to disagree with you and dont believe the lie that Islam is about peace that is so much of a lie that everyone has bought into. If it was about peace then they would not be killing jews and people of the west and even there own people. They killed Nick Berg because he was Jewish and etc....It is not strictly forbidden to kill any jew or gentile from the west or any other country they consider people from the USA Infidels and your saying it's about peace they want to see the destruction of the USA and Israel that does not tell me it's a peaceful religion.

You can look througout alot of passages in the Koran such as Surah 3:157 And if you are slain or die in the way of Allah forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.

Surah 8:65 O Prophet urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty patient men among you you shall over come two hundred and if there are a hundred they shall overcome a thousand unbelievers for they are a nation who do not understand.

even Allah forces worship in Surah 2:193 Fight against them until there is no dissension and the religion is for Allah.

Surah 9:29 Fight those who neither believe in Allah nor the Last DAy who do not forbid what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, and do not embrace the religion of the truth being amond those who have bene given the Book Bible and the Torah until they pay tribute out of hand and have been humiliated.

Hadith 4.52.311 Narrated IBN' Abbas: "The Prophet said on the day of the Conquest of MEcca There is no migration after the Conquest but Jihad and good intentions and when you are called for Jihad you should immediately respond to the call.

Jews and Gentiles are considered pagans to the Muslim world.

Surah 9:5 Muslims are taught by the Qur'an and Allah's messenger to "fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them"

I dont disagree that they have coroprations and bussiness but i will tell you this in order for them to take over a nation is first to over populate and then evangelism then killings by force if a person does not turn over to there ways of islam.

none of islam is peaceful or else there would be no killings but i want to clear this up i dont believe every muslim is a terriost but i do believe they know what they are doing when they come into a country not there own and soon to over take it by coporations so they can slowly soon take that country over to make it into an islamic country that there is domination. Just look at DeerBorne Michigan. (I think is spelled deerborne incorrectly. Michigan is you can say a dominated State in the US by Muslims.

I just disagree with what you said where you probably got your info at Google. The Muslims are not our friends as they have most of people in the USA to believe.

Michael

[Xith]

  I'm not going to go into the details behind the fight between the jewish people and the muslims.  I'd probably get the names or story mixed up, I just know that it mainly has to do with a major disagreement between who's prophet did what.

  Concerning your quotes from the Qu'ran , they are being posted way out of context:

Surah 3:157 And if you are slain or die in the way of Allah forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
     -  This is taken out of context, because the clerics who denounce radical Islam say that the suicide bombings are just that, suicide.  And it is not the will of Allah for it to be so.  So to them these men are not being rewarded, especially since they kill innocenets and Muslims alike.  Again you assume that radical Islam, and their twisting of the meanings of the Qu'ran, is the only form of Islam.

Surah 2:193 Fight against them until there is no dissension and the religion is for Allah.
     - This one you merely shortened to suit your needs, here is the actual translations (multiple versions).

Yusuf Ali: (<----- translator)
   And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

Zohurul Hoque:
   And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is only for Allah. But if    they desist, then let there be no hostilities except against the unjust.

T. J. Irving:
   Fight them until there is no more subversion and [all] religion belongs to God. If    they stop, let there be no [more] hostility except toward wrongdoers.

T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:
   And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others    along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc.)

M. Pickthall:
   And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. But if they    desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers.

M.H. Shakir:
   And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

    - So as you can see, not in the actual context of its meaning.  Christians are not polytheists (thus not pagans), and you are not oppressing them, so you are not an enemy (they just consider you in the wrong on your choice of worship).  Radical Islam, however, is claiming that we are oppressing them, and that our religion is as well, so we are the enemy.  Two big differences here.

    I won't go into all the quotes, since it would make this post take forever.  Needless to say, there is a difference between the radicals and the followers of true Islam.  The followers of true Islam want peace (admitted in numerous interviews), and even accept that they have to stop fighting and live with the Jewish people in peace.  Radicals (on both sides) believe the world will be a better place without the others, so they twist the teachings of the Qu'ran to justify their actions, and are denounced for it.  Unfortunately the young are easily swayed into believing that violence is the only way, and that is the true struggle they are having over there.  To the true followers, just as Christians view it with Jesus, their is no need to fight (as long as no one oppresses them), because they have already won the war.  They believe in Allah, and will be saved by that on judgement day.  The true followers of Islam don't hate others for their beliefs, they feel sorry for them.

   Finally, the reason I pointed you towards the UAE, is because I was proving a point.  Showing that the middle east isn't some cess pool and it just needs to develop and catch up with the 21st century.  The UAE is a for a democratic republic, women have tons of rights that they lack in other middle eastern countries (70% of the internet / computer tech workforce is women there).  They are very acceptant of other people and religions, and still practice their religion to the fullest.  It is the UAE's goal to prove to the world that the middle east can be peaceful and prosperous.  And by doing so they hope to show other middle eastern countries what can be obtained.  They consider America's goals and system of government as a excellent model (1 of only 2 countries in all of the middle east that thinks this; the rest have their views skewed by radicals and propaganda).  In fact, they model a lot of their government and economic organizations to the American model.  Hardly a people out to kill us I would say.

[Reba]

The muslem religion is antichrist therefore those who follow the Kuran are antichrist. That said   quotes  plucked from here and there do not always reflect the whole.

Gen 22:10

10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
KJV

1 Sam 15:3

3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
KJV

2 Kings 10:25

25 And it came to pass, as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, that Jehu said to the guard and to the captains, Go in, and slay them; let none come forth. And they smote them with the edge of the sword; and the guard and the captains cast them out, and went to the city of the house of Baal.
KJV

Num 31:17

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
KJV


Ex 22:24

24 And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
KJV

Deut 32:41-42

41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.

42 I will make mine arrows drunk with blood, and my sword shall devour flesh; and that with the blood of the slain and of the captives, from the beginning of revenges upon the enemy.
KJV

Heb 4:12

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
KJV

As Christians we know God as THEE God of peace. The above scriptures are taken out of context.

[Xith]

 *sigh*... And as Muslims they KNOW that Allah is THE God (and is a god a peace).  Vicious cycle isn't it?  Well I cede in this argument, good luck with the whole hating others thing, it really is a much better method than trying to promote peace among the masses.

[Sulfurdolphin]

 I got all the quotes from the Quran from the book called Unveiling Islam by Ergun Mehmet Caner and Emir Fethi Caner they are both EX Sunni Muslims and are believers in Christ.

[Xith]

    I got my quotes from direct translations of the Qu'ran.  I do not doubt the validity of the quotes you have.  However, I don't know how reliable an opinion you can get from someone who converted to a different religion, and then writes a book on their former one.  Obviously they had a problem with the religion, or with the religious leader, so I don't know if their book would give an unbiased look into its workings.  The same goes with any books of that nature.  I know people who have converted from Christianity to Buddhism, and I will tell you, Christianity is not a favorite subject of theirs (some bad experiences).  And even though I am not a Christian, I know that if they wrote a book on Christianity, it would probably gloss over a lot of the good the religion preaches, and just focus on what they consider is wrong with it.  

[Reba]

*sigh*... And as Muslims they KNOW that Allah is THE God (and is a god a peace).  Vicious cycle isn't it?  Well I cede in this argument, good luck with the whole hating others thing, it really is a much better method than trying to promote peace among the masses.

You missed my point.... .  I was hoping to  point out the bad  mechanics of qouting out of context

[ollie]

*sigh*... And as Muslims they KNOW that Allah is THE God (and is a god a peace).  Vicious cycle isn't it?  Well I cede in this argument, good luck with the whole hating others thing, it really is a much better method than trying to promote peace among the masses.

You need to explore the word "hate" and know what "hate" is amd how to properly use the word before using it as a judgement on others.

[Xith]

You need to explore the word "hate" and know what "hate" is amd how to properly use the word before using it as a judgement on others.

 I am quite aware of the definition of the word hate.  My point is that my posts were to merely show that the majority of Islamics are by far a blood thirsty, crazed people.  I am not Islamic, I am not trying to convert anyone to Islam, I am just trying to show another point of view.  All I am really saying is judge them when you meet them.  But when all the posts are full of flat out denial of this suggestion, well it begins to get me to thinking.  I am not Christian, but it is my understanding that Christianity is meant to spread the word of peace and redemption.  I assumed that redemption also came with understanding.  To call a whole people 'evil' is silly, and shows a lack of understanding.  That kind of close mindedness forms the epitome of hate.  Because it is hate without purpose, it is hate without understanding.
   
   No one can freely assume that a whole people is evil.  I mean comeon, statistically 15-20% of the population of the US has a form of sociopathic tendancies.  Now, since that statistic encompasses the population as a whole, we can also assume that a portion of Christians are included in that.  Thus, by the logic I see posted here, I can assume that all Christians are sociopaths because a percentage of them are.  It is the same in Islam, a percentage (less than 20%) is for radical islam, and a portion of that freely commit violence in name of that cause.  Thus, I assume they are all crazy killers.  Does this make sense?

[2nd Timothy]

Hello Xith, welcome to CU.


From a biblical perspective, all men are considered evil.  Man is incapable of producing anything good or holy on his own accord.  This is basically the fallen state that all men are in.  When one puts his trust in Christ, God no longer views the man, but His son living in the man by faith.   We christians still struggle with out flesh and will continue to do so until we die.    So there is no predjudice.  We are all fallen.  The only difference between true Christians and non Christians is....Christians are forgiven, and walk after the spiritual life of Christ within us.

So yes, from a biblical standpoint, the whole of all people are evil and in need of a righteous God to lead those who are willing to follow Him into spiritual rebirth, whereby HIS righteousness and holiness can bring forth the good that God is able to do through us.

Grace and Peace!

[Reba]

Hello Xith, welcome to CU.


From a biblical perspective, all men are considered evil.  Man is incapable of producing anything good or holy on his own accord.  This is basically the fallen state that all men are in.  When one puts his trust in Christ, God no longer views the man, but His son living in the man by faith.   We christians still struggle with out flesh and will continue to do so until we die.    So there is no predjudice.  We are all fallen.  The only difference between true Christians and non Christians is....Christians are forgiven, and walk after the spiritual life of Christ within us.

So yes, from a biblical standpoint, the whole of all people are evil and in need of a righteous God to lead those who are willing to follow Him into spiritual rebirth, whereby HIS righteousness and holiness can bring forth the good that God is able to do through us.

Grace and Peace!

 

AMEN TIMMY