Why would a "loving" God condemn to hell??

[Psalms101]

  i have been repeatedly asked this, "why does god send good people to hell, I thought he was supposed to be a loving god." I have no doubt why, but hey have been raised deeply religious, and have pulled away from anything resembling Christianity, but they have so many questions that I could answer- but this one stumped me- I think they really want to come back, but there are tings they don't understand, does anyone know away  I could explain this?  ???Thanks in advance
Palms101

[2nd Timothy]

why does god send good people to hell

The reason the question has you stumped (as well as the greatest theological minds in history) is quite simply because it cannot be answered.

I can answer this very simply, and BTW I am certainly no great theological mind.  

The answer is this;  

There are no good people!  Not one!  

By comparison to God, we are sinful, loathful, self serving, wretched scum, and deserve no better than hell.  

A better question is, why would an all powerful all knowing God send his Son to die for us and provide an escape from what we so deserve?   Because he's a loving God.   Its the greatest love story of all time.

EDIT TO ADD....

As a believer you are left with two choices:

1)God is quite happy for the devil to lead people into hell, and quite content to offer them no possibility of forgiveness once they get there (in which case he cannot be all good)

or

2)God is unable to stop this happening(in which case he cannot be all powerful)

On the contrary, as an unbeliever you are left with two choices.

1.  You can choose to believe that you are corrupt and sinful to the core, and accept that God has provided a wonderful gift of salvation that makes you pure in the eyes of God Almighty, escaping an inescapable fate.

or

2.   Blame God for all the wrongs in life which we ourselves are responsible for, and be content in our grumblings when point #1 is glaring larger than life.

Just a slightly different perspective.  


Grace and Peace!

[Allinall]

i have been repeatedly asked this, "why does god send good people to hell, I thought he was supposed to be a loving god." I have no doubt why, but hey have been raised deeply religious, and have pulled away from anything resembling Christianity, but they have so many questions that I could answer- but this one stumped me- I think they really want to come back, but there are tings they don't understand, does anyone know away  I could explain this?  ???Thanks in advance
Palms101

Quite simply, because if He didn't, He wouldn't be God.  Now, for those of us who have come to know our God better, that statement makes perfect and undeniable sense.  For those of us still growing in our understanding (as we all should be  ), it may make less sense.  I believe the confusion comes, not from God and His Word, but from man's preaching and sharing of that Word.  It is the problem of man's perception of Who God is, not the truth of Who God is.

Lemme splain.    If you could sum up God in one word, what word would you use?  Many I believe, would chose the word "love."  Why?  Because God not only is a God of love, but God is love.  However, to base that characteristic of His as the sole summation of God's being would be a huge problem.  Why?

It's interesting how that the Bible illustrates one characteristic of God's via one word, repeatedly.  So much so, that the angels in Heaven, who serve God at His throne cease not to say this word over and over again in His Divine presence.  What word?  HOLY[/b].  The one, all defining characteristic by which all other characteristics of God are understood and exemplified.

But what does that word mean?  It means, in Kev's paraphrase, different.  Literally, set apart.  This is key.  We tend to view God as being like us.  We tend to see Him being angry with us when He is, in fact, merciful, gracious and loving.  And when things go wrong, we tend to see Him as vengeful when He is, in fact, just, righteous and working all things together for our good as a loving Father.  He is not like us.  His thoughts are not our thoughts, but He has made us privy to them through His Word, through His Son, and through His Spirit.  He is holy.

So what's that got to do with the price of tea in China?    Simply this: God would not be God if He removed the just, righteous and holy condemnation for sin.  You say, "But if we're saved, then He has removed that condemnation!"  Yup!  But we aren't talking about saved folk here, are we?  For the lost, for every single solitary one of us, we are born dead in our sin, spiritually separated from God.  We live our lives and by His Word, everyone of us has the chance to accept His gift of life.  If we fail to do so, when we physically die, the we truly are dead.  The point of Hell, my friend, isn't a judgment for being dead.  It's the judgment for refusing the Life, the Light of men, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ's gift of dying in our place on the cross, being buried and risen again on the third day.  If we accept this gift, then our condemnation is removed, because Jesus took it upon Himself when He gave His life for us.

God condemned sin in His righteousness.  God provided payment, or redemption from that condemnation through His Son on the cross in His love.  God will hold lost sinners accountable for their failing to believe Him as to their need in His justice.  God will usher those saved sinners into His presence in His truth.  He will do all of this because He is holy.  He isn't like us.

Why does God send people to Hell?  Because He is God.  

[grace]

Okay,

I'm about to start a raging fire that I really don't have time to tend properly at this point in my life. Folks, I'm going to be slow to respond to the responses that this will generate because- WOW- I'm getting married in a week and a half!   So please be patient. (Sunday Sept. 5th at 4PM, to be specific! Please keep me and my fiancee in your prayers!)

But here goes.

A teacher of mine did a word study on the use of the word "hell" in the bible. The results of his study suggest that there is more evidence that the fires of hell destroy entirely and consume very rapidly as opposed to tormenting for eternity. And it is those who, when faced with the full knowledge of who God is, reject Him, that will meet that fate.

Fellow Christians, most of you are probably experiencing some pretty serious doubts about me right now, and/or concern that the teacher I speak of is an instrument of Satan's. But this teacher presented his findings not as doctrine to be swallowed, but as a piece of scholarship to be reviewed, questioned and tested with concordances, interlinears and a good dose of skepticism in hand (and this I did). How much of what we believe derives from the traditions of Man? Almost all of our descriptions of hell, for instance, come from secular sources, because they're not in the bible!

For some, the idea that there is no place of perpetual torrment is very disturbing. I've even heard some say (and it makes my heart weep) that "if there is no place of eternal torment, then what's the point of being a Christian?" Is being a Christian so paltry apart from avoiding hell that the threat of hell is the one thing that makes it worth being a Christian? If you think so, you are missing out bigtime!
Is your God so not worth knowing that it takes the threat of torture to make him worth knowing? I seriously doubt that you have even met Him if you think that way! You should consider meeting Him;
                              He is awesome!!!!

For non-Christians following this thread, this may yet sound pretty coercive: "Tow the line or you'll flash-fry, instead of being tortured forever", certainly sounds like an improvement, but a threat none the less. If God is who many believe He is, it is just that- a threat. For it to be anything but a threat to me, God has to be so extraordinarily wonderful and loving and just and powerful and beautiful that any one willing to reject Him, seeing who He truly is, is riddled with and ruled by such hate, anger and bitterness that they are better off not existing than living in such a wasteland existence without Him. In this light, hell is a promise and not a threat.

Romans 14:11 - For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

This is God's promise to us, that all will bow (and I believe, do so joyfully and not cowingly) to God, who is Love.
How could this happen, how could this promise be kept, if multitudes are in torment? "Every knee", and "every tongue", the scriptures say.

In His love,

-Grace

PS- Please, I'm not trolling! This is what I truly believe, whether rightly or wrongly, with all my heart. I do hope and pray that you will take me as sincere, hear what I have to say, and correct me where you believe that I am wrong; I am afraid of having my beliefs challenged, but I am willing to have them challenged, especially in any way that will lead me to a closer walk with Him.
If I am asked to leave this forum as a result of what I have just written, I will do so with great sorrow, and I will not come back unless invited.

[Bronzesnake]

Grace...

Congratulations on the marriage my friend!

 You are wrong about this Hell thing though

 here's why...

 
 Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  

 Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.  


 Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.  


 Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.  


 Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.  


 Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  

 God says Hells torment last "day and night for ever and ever."
If God syas it...I believe it.

Now give your new bride a hug for all of us here at C.U.F.!!

Bronzesnake

[grace]

New groom, actually, and hug warmly recieved!  

Re. "for ever and ever" - The Greek word aionios comes from the root aion (which means an age, or an aeon) is an adjective describing something having the qualities of an age or a aeon. The primary meaning of this word is not infinity; a long time is implied, but not necessarily endless time.

The length of time implied depends on the noun to which it is applied; I'll have to investigate the connotations for this passage; I'll get back to you on it.

Re. Torment: There is a distinction to be made between torment and torture. But if I discuss it right now, there are some things that need to get done yesterday that won't get done... So again, have patience with me...

In His love,

-Grace

[Allinall]

Grace,

I don't think anyone's gonna ban you, or ask you to leave because of your viewpoint.  As I said, we all are in the blessed process of knowing our God.  Some of our knowledge is at a more mature level than others.  Some excel in their knowledge of God's Person.  Others, in their knowledge of God's practice.  Point being, we all are growing in our knowledge of our Lord.  Some will grow in their knowledge of God's love, excluding the knowledge of our God's just and righteous nature.  Others will grow in their knowledge of His justice and righteousness, excluding the knowledge of our God's everlasting love, mercy, grace, longsuffering, kindness and truth.  On both counts, it's a shame.

You said:

A teacher of mine did a word study on the use of the word "hell" in the bible. The results of his study suggest that there is more evidence that the fires of hell destroy entirely and consume very rapidly as opposed to tormenting for eternity. And it is those who, when faced with the full knowledge of who God is, reject Him, that will meet that fate.

I do understand that you've said he's not making a doctrine based upon this study, and do appreciate that.  I do, however, want to add that any doctrine based upon one word without contextual backing is a weak doctrine.  I say that because every word must be read within the context in which is was written.



There are many New Testament words translated, or dealing in some way, form or fashion to the word fire.  Here they are, listed with their Strong's Number:

439 anthrakia anth-rak-ee-ah' from 440; a bed of burning coals:--fire of coals.


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440 anthrax anth'-rax of uncertain derivation; a live coal:--coal of fire.
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681 hapto hap'-to a primary verb; properly, to fasten to, i.e. (specially) to set on fire:--kindle, light.
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1714 empretho em-pray'-tho from 1722 and pretho (to blow a flame); to enkindle, i.e. set on fire:--burn up.
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2545 kaio kah'-yo apparently a primary verb; to set on fire, i.e. kindle or (by implication) consume:--burn, light.
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2741 kausoo kow-so'-o from 2740; to set on fire:--fervent heat.
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4442 pur poor a primary word; "fire" (literally or figuratively, specially, lightning):--fiery, fire.
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4443 pura poo-rah' from 4442; a fire (concretely):--fire.
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4445 puresso poo-res'-so from 4443; to be on fire, i.e. (specially), to have a fever:--be sick of a fever.
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4447 purinos poo'-ree-nos from 4443; fiery, i.e. (by implication) flaming:--of fire.
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4448 puroo poo-ro'-o from 4442; to kindle, i.e. (passively) to be ignited, glow (literally), be refined (by implication), or (figuratively) to be inflamed (with anger, grief, lust):--burn, fiery, be on fire, try.
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4450 purrhos poor-hros' from 4442; fire-like, i.e. (specially), flame- colored:--red.
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5394 phlogizo flog-id'-zo from 5395; to cause a blaze, i.e. ignite (figuratively, to inflame with passion):--set on fire.
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5457 phos foce from an obsolete phao (to shine or make manifest, especially by rays; compare 5316, 5346); luminousness (in the widest application, natural or artificial, abstract or concrete, literal or figurative):--fire, light.

Interestingly enough, for me anyway, are the number of times these words appear in the New Testament:

Anthrakia appears twice in the New Testament, in John 18:18 and John 21:9.  In both instances it is used contextually to speak of a fire of coals used for warming or cooking.

Anthrax appears once in the New Testament, in Romans 12:20, and is used contextually to speak of coals (440) of fire (4442) heaped upon the heads of those enemies treated with kindness.  It is in referrence to the actual coal.

Hapto appears 4 times in the New Testament, 3 times in Luke 8:16; 11:33; and 15:8, where it is used in reference to lighting a candle, and once in Luke 22:55 where it is used in reference to a campfire.

Empretho appears once in the New Testament, in Matthew 22:7, where it references the burning of a city.


Kaio appears 12 times, in Matthew 5:15; Luke 12:35; 24:32; John 5:35; 15:6; 1 Corinthians 13:3; Hebrews 12:18; Revelations 4:5; 8:8,10; 19:20 and 21:8.  In each case, it is in reference to the burning of something (i.e. candle, branches, hearts, fire, body, etc.).

Kausoo appears twice, in 2 Peter 3:10, and 12.  It refers to, imagine that, fervent heat!  

Pur appears 74 times in the New Testament in many passages that I'm not going to list!    It refers to fire in general and is the root of many of the words related to fire and burning and heat and such like.  It means, basically, Fire.    Words such as Pura (2x), Puresso(2x), Purinos(1x), Puroo(6x) and Purrhos(2x) give similiar translations.

Phlogizo appears twice in James 3:6, refering to being set on fire.

Phos appears 70 times in the New Testament and I'm not going to list where there either!    In these cases, it refers to the light factor of fire, or the giving of light.

So why so much in these words?  Namely because contextually speaking, the idea, from these choices, of burning up completely, hence the lack of a need for a view of an eternal Hell seems less than contextually adaquate for such a viewpoint.  In short, there's no meat to it from the Word of God.

But holding the viewpoint of an eternal Hell doesn't come from just one Word either.  Let me continue with where that support comes from...

TO BE CONTINUED...

[Allinall]

CONTINUED...

Just to take a couple of the verses which teach eternal judgment...

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Matthew 25:46

This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are also suffering--since indeed God considers it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed.

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10

I think we tend to excuse our misunderstanding of God's nature by denying truths concerning Him that we simply don't get.  This one for example, how God, Who loves completely, would judge so harshly, for eternity.  Yet what does it say?  Bronzesnake hit it on the head.  Sister, when you said...

Re. "for ever and ever" - The Greek word aionios comes from the root aion (which means an age, or an aeon) is an adjective describing something having the qualities of an age or a aeon. The primary meaning of this word is not infinity; a long time is implied, but not necessarily endless time.

...you failed to address this aspect of the concept.  Consider the word eternal used here.  BTW, in the Matthew passage, it's key.  Because if He didn't mean eternal punishment...then did He really mean eternal life?  Can't have your cake and eat it too!    Consider what the word means:

Aionios

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be

2) without beginning

3) without end, never to cease, everlasting

For starters, we must understand the word as the people of the day would have understood it.  It means without beginning or end.  Never to cease.  Everlasting.  But as for the roots you listed...

Aion

1) for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity

2) the worlds, universe

3) period of time, age

Granted, this is dispensational in approach, but the concept that when God starts an age, it is God and He alone Who will end it.  And He claims this age will be eternal.  

BTW, if you still disagree, you're wrong.    But I won't count you any less a sister in Him if you claim Him and He claims you.  

Hope the wedding goes well!

His,

Kevin

[Brother Love]

WHY DO PEOPLE GO TO HELL?

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=4715

<))><

[No Gray Areas]

We have a choice God gave us free will, we can choose God or not. As for your question why does God send people to hell, He dosen't, We choose Christ and live or we deny Christ and die. God is honouring our choice. He dosen't want anyone to go to hell, we choose where we go.

[Shammu]

God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us--after His image, after His likeness, the power to say "yes" or the power to say "no," the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences.

Across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ.    
In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.

Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people--only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.

We have our catalog of sins. We have rape and incest and murder; and we have them all cataloged and classified--but there isn't one of them (or even put them all together in one big hunk) that comes close to the sin of keeping Jesus Christ out of your life. Did Jesus say, "I'm going to send the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin because they rob banks"-- or, "because they believe not on me"?    

It is folly to expect that you or I can trifle with the Lord Jesus and not have a penalty attached to it. What ridiculous thinking people have in this area! We expect penalties for doing much less. Life is just built that way.

You jump off a high building, the law of gravity will take care of you. You might say, "God is love," all the way down, but you're still going to get splattered when you hit the bottom! You break the law of gravity, and it breaks you! You may love your little child, but if he puts his finger up on that hot burner on the gas stove or the electric stove, he's going to get burned!

Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.

God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

Paul also says that "the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. While breath remains, it is never too late to turn to God in repentance, and when we ask for forgiveness, God eagerly grants it.

We may rest assured that no one will suffer in hell who could by any means have been won to Christ in this life. God leaves no stone unturned to rescue all who would respond to the convicting and wooing of the Holy Spirit.

As for the fate of (the damned) being eternal, it could not be otherwise. Death is not the cessation of existence but the continuation of the eternal being with which God lovingly endowed man--but now in painful separation from God and all else in utter darkness and loneliness.

The Bible says that God prepared hell for the devil and his demonic cohorts Matthew 25:41, that He is "...not wishing for any [person] to perish but for all to come to repentance." II Peter 3:9, and that He has done everything possible to save us from that terrible, terrible place. Yet in the end God will not violate or overrule the deliberate choice of those who consciously and willfully turn away from Him.

John 3:16-19 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil."