Babylon the Great is Falling

[2nd Timothy]

That explains why we have full support from all the nations we reign over to rebuild Iraq!    

Grace and Peace!

We?

I am not of the Governing body and as of late I am reserved in shouting of my public pride. "In God we Trust" is now yelled from the Outside!

If you are not in the governing body I guess you haven't realized there is no "we" now...

Answer me this:

At what point in your doctrine does scripture turn from yesterday and reveal tomorrow?

Today?

Please use Chapter and verse.

Peace.

The we I refer to is America.   I suppose I was being a bit facecious....but I was attempting to make a point.  America is only reigning over itself.  Sure we impose ourselves on a much of the world...Washington may do as it wishes, but to say that the rest of the world is in bed with America just doesn't hold true in the sense that is laid out in Revelation.   I suppose that could change, but its deffinately not the case at this moment in time.

The question you ask cannot be pointed out by chapter and verse.  Prophecy is interweaved throughout scripture.  If you feel there is a chapter and verse where it stops, I would certainly like to hear your thoughts on that?

Something you need to keep in mind concerning Revelation and its cryptic symbols is the following.

It was written by John during the 1st century.   He was instructed to write down everything he saw.

Rev 1:19  Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Past, present, future.   Important keys for interpretation of whats going on.   Not to dig on your wanting to omit history, but the Lord himself felt it important to show things that were. as well.    John having to write down everything he saw, had only 1st century referense (from personal world experience) in which to explain what he was seeing.   Imagine if you were shown a vision of events to take place 2,000 years from today.   Probably some pretty outrageous events that would be hard to describe using the terminology we have today.    (Shoot, I have trouble keeping up with terminology from months past when it comes to computers.)   It would probably sound a lot like a modernized version of Revelation, being very cryptic and difficult to understand.  If people 2,000 years from today were to omit 2004 history, they might miss what you were trying to show them using your own world experience to explain what was going to happen then!   You see what I mean?

Just some food for thought!

Grace and Peace!  

[TheComforter]

  A couple of points!

I addressed the actual topic on the other thread by mistake, it just fell in there.

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER etc... is a name on the forehead of the woman. Which means on her mind. Check out the other thread and see if you can get the parable and what was on the womans mind as she "goes" down.

As far as the Lord holding back on some wrath for Rome?

The Roman system spun off of Babylon and in modern times the Babylonian system of city and state is America. No matter which path you take to remove the city which rules the kings of the earth from DC you will wagon wheel right back to America and DC.

Democrat? Only this time around! And as the king who has been troubled by the kings of the east goes down, hang on boys!

Right or wrong, understanding or not, scripture stops for no man.

Peace.

John.

[Shammu]

Right or wrong, understanding or not, this is all speculation on everyones part. God says that it is a mystery, and I believe it. We will know who, what, when, and where, when Jesus wants us to know.

[twobombs]

Hi all,

I see a "glitch in the matrix" when Dreamweaver answered.

A mystery is something that God *wants* to reveal to us
when we seek Him earnestly; some mysteries are clearly
explained such as the mystery of the calling of the Heathens.
Others are somewhat more hidden.

But this does not mean that it/this/that isn't for us.

How often do we sing:
"I am in the Father and the Father is in us"

And preach: " oh, this or that mystery is known by the Father,
 it is not to be known for us ! (until we are in heaven)"

I tell you again today:
It is a glich, a misunderstanding and a direct contradiction to
even think that any mystery pertaining the Kindom of God isn't
to be fully understood with the knowledge of Him by us on Earth.

We are not slaves; we have got power to become the Sons of
the most High, and Jesus calls us Friends !

Would you not tell a true friend everything he would really like to
know, and if not, and if you were told He would not tell it; what
basis does that friendship of yours actually have ?

Consider this, ponder it as I do and you will find that that being
in the dark regarding any matter in the Chuch, His people  and
this day is definately "a bad thing"(tm) And has no place in a
relationship as serious as the one you should have with Christ
and the Father

Greetings,
2B

[Shammu]

You must be a democrat.

*sigh* 2 party systems ...

greetings from a democratic Holland
one of the first European NWO states;
27 partys and still not even one in my flavour....

2B

Sorry to hear that 2B, You still have hope though........


Through the greatest party of all..............




The party of Jesus Christ.

[Shammu]

Gen 10:8-10 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Nimrod built Babel which was ancient Babylon. He was said to be a mighty hunter before the Lord; this means he was in defiance of the Lord. Babylon was the place where false religion was first organized. The world was united with one language during the days of Babel. Therefore, we might say that Babylon represents a united world religion.

Isa 21:9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he hath broken unto the ground.

Babylon was a city of many graven images, false gods, and idol worship.

Jer 51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

God declared that the ancient city of Babylon would be destroyed and would be uninhabited.

Jer 51:44 And I will punish Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth that which he hath swallowed up: and the nations shall not flow together any more unto him: yea, the wall of Babylon shall fall.

The walls were eighty feet thick and three hundred feet high, but they eventually fell.

Jer 51:47 Therefore, behold, the days come, that I will do judgment upon the graven images of Babylon: and her whole land shall be confounded, and all her slain shall fall in the midst of her.

Babylon trusted in idols and not in God; therefore, God destroyed Babylon.

Jer 51:61-62 And Jeremiah said to Seraiah, When thou comest to Babylon, and shalt see, and shalt read all these words; Then shalt thou say, O LORD, thou hast spoken against this place, to cut it off, that none shall remain in it, neither man nor beast, but that it shall be desolate for ever.

Notice that God said that Babylon would be desolate forever; this means it will never be rebuilt, it will never again become a center for false religious worship.

Jer 51:63-64 And it shall be, when thou hast made an end of reading this book, that thou shalt bind a stone to it, and cast it into the midst of Euphrates: And thou shalt say, Thus shall Babylon sink, and shall not rise from the evil that I will bring upon her: and they shall be weary. Thus far are the words of Jeremiah.

God's word says that the ancient city of Babylon will never rise again; we can count on it. God's word is correct to the last detail; ancient Babylon will never rise again.

Ezek 23:8 Neither left she her whoredoms brought from Egypt: for in her youth they lay with her, and they bruised the breasts of her virginity, and poured their whoredom upon her.

Ezekiel is speaking of ancient Israel as a whore, an unfaithful wife, because Israel worshiped the false gods of Egypt.

Ezek 23:17 And the Babylonians came to her into the bed of love, and they defiled her with their whoredom, and she was polluted with them, and her mind was alienated from them.

The Babylonians caused Israel to take part in idolatry, to be unfaithful to God; therefore, Babylon became a name used to refer to a place of idol worship.

Ezek 23:30 I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.

God's judgement came upon Israel because of their idolatry.

1 Pet 5:13 The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

Peter is not speaking of the ancient Babylon; it was in ruins. Peter was referring to the city from which he wrote his epistle; it was a city of idolatry, the city of Rome.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

The Babylon mentioned in the book of Revelation is a center of idol worship; it is a city that encourages people to engage in false religious worship. Spiritual Babylon will someday be destroyed for leading people into idolatry.

Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

God will someday destroy spiritual Babylon with great anger because of its great wickedness..

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

The term ''great whore'' refers to a large religious system involved in idol worship. The term "many waters" refers to many parts of the world or to many nations. Putting it together we have a large worldwide system of idol worship; false religion controlled by one city, yet covering the entire earth.

Rev 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Fornication here speaks of idolatry. The whore, spiritual Babylon, will be responsible for leading the inhabitants of the world into idolatry.

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

The woman here refers to the religious system of the world, which will be supported by the antichrist, the scarlet beast. The antichrist will use this united religious system to help him secure power and to unite the world under his government. The woman will not realize she is only being used by the beast for his own purpose; her greed and corruption will bring her downfall..

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The priest of this religious system will dress in purple and scarlet, the colors of royalty, which are already found in some so-called Christian ceremonies today. They will also use a golden cup in their idol worship.

Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

The term "mystery" means that her true identity had been hidden for a period of time. Remember Babylon is where organized false religion got its start. She is the worst of all the worlds false religious systems and she leads the entire world into idolatry, and all other religions of the world will look to her as their mother.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

False religion has always been responsible for the persecution of true Christians. During the great tribulation period there will be a great persecution of new believers and spiritual Babylon will be responsible. Rev 6:9-11 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. We must remember that these persecuted believers are not Christians who go into the seven year tribulation, but they are people who will come to believe during the Great Tribulation.

Rev 17:7-8 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Many demons are now in prison in the bottomless pit. The beast is a demon who will someday be released from the bottomless pit to possess the antichrist. He is identified with the antichrist because he will control him completely. It could be that this one that comes out of the bottomless pit is a very evil demon that has possessed some very evil person in the past, but is now confined in the bottomless pit. He could be the same demon that possessed Nero, the emperor of Rome, since the Roman Empire will be revived during the Great Tribulation. This may explain the statement that he was, and is not, and yet is.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

The seven mountains are the seven hills of Rome; Rome will be the home of spiritual Babylon.

Rev 17:10-11 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

[Shammu]

These kings are rulers of the Roman Empire who persecuted Jews and Christians, as the beast will. The beast refers to the antichrist. The antichrist will be the ruler of the revived Roman Empire.

Rev 17:12-13 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

These ten world rulers, whoever they are, will only rule for a short period of time. Because the whole world is controlled by the evil one, they will all support the antichrist.

Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

When Jesus Christ returns as King of kings, we who believe in Him will be with Him. The nations of the world will gather to wage war against Him, but to no avail.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

After the rapture takes place, the whore will be able to take control of the many false Christians in this world, and will have unopposed control of the minds of men. Many people who call themselves Christians today will not be raptured because they are not true Christians; they are religious, but they have not been born again. Furthermore, because almost all denominations have many nonbelievers in them they will still be here during the Great Tribulation and will become part of the one world religion.

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

The united world government will only use the harlot to gain power. Since the beast wants all the people of the world to worship him only, he will destroy the whore, spiritual Babylon, as soon as he becomes powerful enough to do so.

Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Even the most wicked unbelievers in this world are the servants of the Lord. In this case, they are used by God to bring judgment upon the harlot, spiritual Babylon.

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

When the apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation, the city of Rome ruled over the kings of the earth. The kingdom of the antichrist will be the revived Roman Empire.

Rev 18:2-3 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

This false religious system which had so much control over the world will be no more. It is apparent that the false religious system will be very wealthy; it may even have more wealth than all of today's religions combined. She will have so much wealth that she will make the world's merchants rich by her extravagant spending.

Rev 18:4-5 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

God is not only telling His people to separate themselves from the false religion of the tribulation period, He is also telling His people of this day to separate themselves from all forms of false religion, and to put their faith in Jesus Christ, and in Him only.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. People are saved by faith in Jesus Christ, not by religion.

Rev 18:6-8 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

There is a day of judgment coming for all the wicked and especially for the world's false religious system. Those who put their faith in religion will be judged for their idolatry because they don't trust in Jesus Christ, the only Savior.

Rev 18:9-13 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more: The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble, And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

The only reason the merchants of the earth will mourn for her is because she will not be able to buy their products anymore.

Rev 18:14-20 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all. The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off, And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

The world will mourn for spiritual Babylon, but heaven will rejoice over her judgment. The saints, apostles, and prophets all rejoiced over her judgment because she was responsible for so much of the suffering of the true Church in the past, as well as the suffering of the tribulation saints.

Rev 18:21-23 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

As the ancient Babylon was thrown down, also the Babylon of the great tribulation will be thrown down, never to arise again. The teaching here is that all false religion will be removed from the face of the earth forever.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Babylon, representative of all the false religions of the world, is responsible for the death of all those who were slain for their faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rev 19:1-3 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

[Bronzesnake]

DreamWeaver...

 That is great stuff my brother! Have you considered writing a book? I'm serious about this. I have begun writing a book which is going to be written for my friends. It will focus mostly on a series of important future biblical events - such as the rapture - What to do to catch the flight out, and how to avoid certain doom, if you thought it was all a bunch of weasel wash, and find yourself smack dab in the midst of satan town! I will also insert my own personal testimony. "From Rock Star Hell To Jesus and Eternal Salvation" Don't know if you're aware, but I was a singer in a rock band, here in Canada. I though I could live that lifestyle, and still know Jesus, and get to Heaven...Bwahahahahaa!

I always wrote "Christian" lyrics, and themes. However, I cleverly hid them. Some people recognized the Christian content, and yet - regrettably - watching my behavior and understanding the lyrics as being "Christian", didn't sit well with Born Again Christians, who knew I was lost. Others completely mistook my lyrics and thought them to be "dark" I didn't do much to straighten that false perception out - which saddens, and shames me to this day, thinking about how I may have been responsible for leading some astray. Back then, I didn't know the difference between, knowing "of" Jesus, and "knowing" Jesus. I did all the usual things we all read about in relation to the "Rock Star" life. It almost cost me my wife and children, not to mention my life. Immediately after our second CD came out, I quit the band. My very close friend, and guitar player didn't speak to me for years because of that. We are now very close again, I'm happy to say. I left that life behind, and went head strong after Jesus...Thank you Jesus for accepting me, and washing that filth off of me. I am a new man in Jesus...Amen?

By the way...When I say "Rock Star" I shake my own head now, in utter disbelief, shame, and disgusts, just to think back on how pleased I was with "My accomplishments"

Bronzesnake.

[AJ]

Amen DreamWeaver your study makes more sense than America, or a City of America, being MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT. I dont see God taking revenge against Washington DC for the blood of his holy apostles and prophets.  

Rev 18:20  Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

[Shammu]

Thank you AJ, and BRNZ.
No I haven't though about writing a book BRNZ. To me the word of Jesus is free. So therefore I rather post it, free of charge.

[Shammu]

I did a search on New Babylon, guess what? There really is a place called New Babylon.
http://www.classic.archined.nl/extra/babylon/newbabylon_00.html

New Babylon - The value of dreaming the city of tomorrow

January 26 and 27 the organisation LINK organised a seminar on Constants' dream of the 'unitary urbanism' at the Delft University of Technology, with the aim of investigating its background and its relevance for todays' architects. The organisers summarised it like this: "A search for the significance of the ideological, social and polemical dimension of architecture, the value of critique and the integral vision of man and the built environment."

It got clear we are looking at a project which surpasses both our wildest dreams and nightmares. Also, through a series of contributions by Adolfo Natalini, Elia Zenghelis and Peter Cook it became clear how much has changed in the approach towards architecture today.

On the occasion of the start of the symposium 'special guest' Simon Vinkenoog offered a short and blazing argument, which ended with the statement: 'Let's start a revolution for fun!'

There are other links describing, what the city is like.

[Brother Love]

Brother DreamWeaver, I enjoy ALL your posts

Thanks

 DreamWeaver, have I told you today I LOVE you Bro?
If not I LOVE you Bro  

Your friend and brother

Brother Love

<))><

[Shammu]

Brother DreamWeaver, I enjoy ALL your posts

Thanks

 DreamWeaver, have I told you today I LOVE you Bro?
If not I LOVE you Bro  

Your friend and brother

Brother Love

<))><

Love you too brother.

[TheComforter]

Good Stuff!

As we watch the actions of Washington DC affect the entire world and realize the damage it has done to both Wheat and tare alike around the world, I wonder if any have drawn closer to America being the Nation described within Revelation? For what better title than Revelation to reveal these things? Regardless, there is no question that Scripture is written for these days and the City which rules is DC and the Saints and Prophets of today are being harmed by but one rouge city.

It is becoming clearer every moment.

Good Stuff!

[david749]

The spirit of the original city of Babylon has rested on various empires over the years.  That is why in my opinion it is called "Mystery Babylon."   It is invisible to the naked eye........but the spirit of evil is there.   It is the type of spirit that leads to such things as feeding Christians to the lions.....as in ancient Rome. 

It probably has rested on our nation since the time the leading judges of the land viewed us no longer a Christian nation. 

Major Supreme Court decisions related to this issue:

1947

1963


http://www.sluiceboxadventures.com/history6_salient_points.htm