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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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| | |-+  Gay marriage? Not in MO!
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Author Topic: Gay marriage? Not in MO!  (Read 8202 times)
Kristi Ann
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2004, 05:13:38 PM »

Oregon's Didn't pass Either YaY!!!!  Grin
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Brother Love
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« Reply #16 on: November 09, 2004, 05:29:53 PM »

God has legislated morals since the beginning of the human family.  Secular States have every right to enact statues about morality, for the secular arm or governing authorities are "God's servant to do you good"  (Rom. 13:1-5).  
 
    In fact, molesting a child or raping someone are moral issues and every State has passed laws pertaining to these crimes.  These same States have the same freedom from God to pass laws against same-sex marriages as they do child molestation and rape, for all are crimes against humanity and against God.



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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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coptic
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« Reply #17 on: November 09, 2004, 06:06:36 PM »

I think it's interesting that Massachusetts has the lowest divorce rate than any other state in the US.

http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsUS2.shtml
http://www.ncpa.org/pd/social/pd111999g.html
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nChrist
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« Reply #18 on: November 09, 2004, 06:14:07 PM »

11 More States

Ban Gay Marriage!!

YES!!!
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coptic
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« Reply #19 on: November 09, 2004, 06:18:19 PM »

It's also interesting that Oklahoma has the highest divorce rate.
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Saved_4ever
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2004, 01:19:42 AM »

Coptic what is your religion?  I ask because you say you keep your religion separate from your politics.  Though I won't get into a huge debate about it, there is a vast difference between religion and faith.

How can anyone keep their beliefs out of their politics?  This seems completely counterintuitive to me.  How do you come to political views that are the polar opposite of your beliefs?  Unless of course your political views are in actuality, your beliefs, which seems to be the case.

I'm failing to see why you are taling a silly jab at BEP, nor what Mass' divorce rate has to do with gay marriage.
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coptic
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« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2004, 04:46:58 AM »

Coptic what is your religion?  I ask because you say you keep your religion separate from your politics.  Though I won't get into a huge debate about it, there is a vast difference between religion and faith.

How can anyone keep their beliefs out of their politics?  This seems completely counterintuitive to me.  How do you come to political views that are the polar opposite of your beliefs?  Unless of course your political views are in actuality, your beliefs, which seems to be the case.

I'm failing to see why you are taling a silly jab at BEP, nor what Mass' divorce rate has to do with gay marriage.

I am Christian, although I associate with no particular denomination.  I wasn't raised in a religious household.  Although, my parents, as children, attended a Lutheran Church and the Church of Christ Science.  They allowed me to study religion on my own, and to come to my own conclusion of what religion I would choose.

As a teen I had some tough times, as most kids do.  I struggled with the loss of friends and loved ones, my own diseases and addictions, and feelings of helplessness and loneliness.  It wasn't until I turned to the Bible for answers and put faith in God that I was finally freed from these feelings of loneliness, and found the strength to free myself from the addictions and diseases that made me the weak person that I was ashamed of being.  There are still times when I feel vulnerable to the sins I habitually committed.  Yet, when I feel that way I know I can turn to the Bible (or other books not included in the canon of the Old or New Testaments).

I am not a Christian fundamentalist, and if you've read my post about Revelations in this same forum you probably could have guessed that.  I am very skeptical of biblical prophecies too, especially those from any apocalyptic text.

Anyways, this should be sufficient enough for you to avoid starting a debate over what the difference between "religion" and "faith" is.  After all, we both know the difference and we'd just be wearing our keyboards.  Smiley

So, let's get to the nitty gritty....

First, let's look at the definition of the word "politics" :
Social relations involving authority or power

Obviously, God has the ultimate power over us, and I believe that.  But I also respect the freedom of others to choose NOT to believe that.  Therefore, while I believe that God is the ultimate power and authority I wouldn't support any law which would remove the freedom for me to come to that conclusion.

I don't support sumptuary laws, and believe they should be repealed.  I believe the answer to this country's problems is a commitment to civil liberties and personal freedom.

Everyone has such a naive faith in law.  Everybody says, "There ought to be a law against it!"  So they make a law against it, and it makes everything more complicated.  You can hardly move today without a lawyer telling you what you may or may not do.

Forbidding sin will not make sinners stop sinning.  They will only make the sinners resent those who try to force their beliefs upon them and confirm their hatred of society.

We are not a part of some theocratic monarchy or are slaves to anything besides what we allow ourselves to be a slave to.  These freedoms are allowed to us by an "American ideology" which has been documented in the Constitution and its amendments.

Furthermore, I think it's interesting to point out that the majority of the amendments to the constitution have been to allow for more personal freedoms or to limit the government's powers.  The few instances when the opposite has been attempted (limit personal freedoms) have resulted in the amendment being repealed or have failed ratification.

So, if you guessed that I don't support the Federal Marriage Amendment or bans on same-sex unions, you would be right!

Christian and liberal (but NOT a Democrat!  I lean more towards Libertarian views).  That's me, and I'm not alone.  Smiley  (Maybe I should have posted all this stuff in the "Introductions" forum???  Its more of a proper introduction than anything... and probably doesnt belong in this "Gay marriage" thread.)

Also, I don't know what "I'm failing to see why you are taling a silly jab at BEP" means?  What's a BEP?

... and to answer your last question about the seemingly unrelated facts I posted about divorce rates.  Massachusetts it the only state that currently allows same-sex marriages (Vermont allows same-sex unions).
« Last Edit: November 10, 2004, 04:54:49 AM by coptic » Logged
sincereheart
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« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2004, 05:05:19 AM »

Quote
... and to answer your last question about the seemingly unrelated facts I posted about divorce rates.  Massachusetts it the only state that currently allows same-sex marriages (Vermont allows same-sex unions).

Since your 'proof' is based on 1998 statistics - before the oxymoron of 'gay marriage' - how does one have anything to do with the other?

What are the populations of each state? I noticed that Rhode Island and District of Columbia each have low numbers?

Quote
Forbidding sin will not make sinners stop sinning.
So they should be given license(s) to promote it? And if we take away the stigma of incest and not have any laws against it, that will help in what way?
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nChrist
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« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2004, 01:34:16 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

We've been talking to a group of trolls who pre-planned to come here, act like Christians, stir things up, and go back to a larger mob to share their Christian hunting exploits.

We were a subject of much laughter, mocking, and labeling with various terms of cursing and filth. The game was to act like Christians, push our buttons, play with us, and report back to a larger mob.

11 have been banned - 9 or more belonging to the same mob. The mob probably numbers over 200.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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Brother Love
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« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2004, 04:35:52 PM »

It's also interesting that Oklahoma has the highest divorce rate.

ROFLOL Grin


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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
Read it on line for "FREE"

http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2004, 08:41:37 PM »


I'm a thinkin' them thar statical thingys is a bit skewed.

Prolly one big MAJOR reason MA has a low divorce rate is because fewer and fewer are bothering to marry in the first place.  I think this week's U.S. News has an article on that - fewer and fewer people are even marrying - rather, just shacking up.  Roll Eyes

Prolly one big major reason OKie might have the highest is 'cuz for the same reason, but opposite.  More people there get the license, making divorce possible.

If they is no marriage license, and you iz jest shack'n up, thar pardner, then theys can't be no divorce!  (Just abondonment.  Undecided)


There.  That was good.   Grin

  (brilliant, symphony, absolutely brilliant)

    Cool
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nChrist
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« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2004, 09:51:04 PM »

Brothers,

 Grin   Grin   Grin  - Thanks for the laugh Symphony.

I think that the ultra-liberals view us as old, stiff-necked fundies.   Grin  Some of them probably don't know that we have become sophisticated. I can't speak for you, but we have electricity and indoor plumbing (finally).   Grin

I've been married to the same woman for over 30 years, and we took our "for better or for worse" vows seriously. She thinks that she is the "better" and I am the "worse".   Grin

Love In Christ,
Tom
« Last Edit: November 10, 2004, 10:40:43 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged

Saved_4ever
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« Reply #27 on: November 11, 2004, 01:33:57 AM »

Brothers and Sisters,

We've been talking to a group of trolls who pre-planned to come here, act like Christians, stir things up, and go back to a larger mob to share their Christian hunting exploits.

We were a subject of much laughter, mocking, and labeling with various terms of cursing and filth. The game was to act like Christians, push our buttons, play with us, and report back to a larger mob.

11 have been banned - 9 or more belonging to the same mob. The mob probably numbers over 200.

Love In Christ,
Tom

How and where did you find this out?  Just curious.

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nChrist
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« Reply #28 on: November 11, 2004, 01:47:48 AM »

Saved_4Ever,

Brother, I'm going to post something when I can. I'll send you a PM for now.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #29 on: November 11, 2004, 01:56:38 AM »

Quote
Forbidding sin will not make sinners stop sinning.  They will only make the sinners resent those who try to force their beliefs upon them and confirm their hatred of society.

No it will not stop them from sinning, nor is it intended to.  It does however make it very clear that it is sin.  It also stops it from becoming ok in society.  Do you think we should just legalize drugs because people do it anyway and they hate society for telling them drugs are bad?

I notice all too often in todays society that everything should just be accepted.  I also see all sorts of immoral behavior happenning and creating all sorts of extra problems.  If we still stuck by the idea that premarital sex was wrong then we wouldn't have to worry (as much) about teen pregnancy, abortions, tons of STD's, and even people not even getting married anymore.  So you see we shouldn't even have to have a law against abortion or rather a mothers right to murder.  Why should that be a "freedom" or a "right".  I'm really missing how this works out.  You see we reap what we sow and sowing sin is reaping us much consequence.  Of course, todays mind set is that it's always some else's fault.  Go to your therapist and he will tell you that you aren't doing well in life because your parents stunk at raising you.  While sometimes this is the case, all too often it's just used and then the person assumes no responcibilty.

No one will be a perfect parent and some of the things we/they do will most assuredly effect their children.  HOWEVER everyone must still be responcible for their own actions.  There are things that I don't agree with my parents on, and I don't do them even though I was raised with those ideas.  For instance my father had a habit of being very racist, and not believing in going to church.  Regardless I still take responcabilty for my own actions.  I had a tendency to be that way as well.  The easy route would be to just say "Well, ya know, my dad was racist so it's not my fault I hate other races of people.  What can ya do?  It's my parents fault."  OR I could actively pay attention to why I may or may not feel a certain way and be concious of what I say and feel.

There is no responcabilty in this country anymore and everyone seems to say to except every immoral behavior, "it's ok".  That's their "belief", but God forbid I should be allowed to say "that's wrong".  On the same hand every immoral person is allowed to call me smalled minded, stupid, hateful, closed minded, crazy etc.

Are people "allowed" to be immoral and chose to openly sin?  I suppose so but as long as the majority of people in this country feel that immoral behavior should not be the norm then that's how it stays, precisely BECAUSE we are a DEMOCRACY.  Remember that whole thing about voting and how much it matters?  

It's still amazing to me that now that the people HAVE voted the liberals are still up in arms.  WHY, because YOU didn't get YOUR way and are still ticked off that the "majority" really DOESN'T agree with you.
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