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Author Topic: WHAT IS THE CHURCH?  (Read 5124 times)
BronxBriar
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2004, 02:54:52 PM »

Henry, Also read chapters 10, 11 & 12. I do know that you do have the book.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

DigD,

Great to see you again!

I am reading them...but I can only have my comfy little spiritual life disrupted so many times in one day!

Talk to you soon,
-Henry
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BigD
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« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2004, 03:07:49 PM »

Henry:
I am SORRY if I interrupted your day. That was not my intent at all.

Also, I was also water baptized as an infant. I do not recall that it did anyfor me. However, the moment I put my faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for my salvation, I was rebaptized (dry-cleaned) into the Body Of Christ. IMHO, so were you.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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BronxBriar
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« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2004, 04:06:54 PM »

Henry:
I am SORRY if I interrupted your day. That was not my intent at all.

Also, I was also water baptized as an infant. I do not recall that it did anyfor me. However, the moment I put my faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for my salvation, I was rebaptized (dry-cleaned) into the Body Of Christ. IMHO, so were you.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Brother!

Don't get me wrong. I was trying to be funny! You can interrupt, disrupt, and challenge my cozy little life and ways of thinking all you want...Otherwise I might become lukewarm..and we all know what happens to the lukewarm!

Warmest regards,
Henry
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BigD
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« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2004, 04:22:15 PM »

Heny:
Your reply makes me feel MUCH BETTER. THANK YOU.

God Bless.
Live well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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ollie
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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2004, 07:11:12 PM »

Church is a word the King James translators substituted for the greek word meaning assembly, meeting, or a calling out.

  Strong's Number: 1577
"Transliterated: ekklesia
Phonetic: ek-klay-see'-ah

Text:  from a compound of 1537 and a derivative of 2564; a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both):

--assembly, church."



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Berean_
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« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2004, 07:17:14 PM »

Henry:
I am SORRY if I interrupted your day. That was not my intent at all.

Also, I was also water baptized as an infant. I do not recall that it did anyfor me. However, the moment I put my faith and trust in the Cross work of Christ for my salvation, I was rebaptized (dry-cleaned) into the Body Of Christ. IMHO, so were you.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Henry's got a really funny sense of humor...just go with it Big D...you'll see!  Grin  He has me ROTFL all the time.
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Brother Love
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« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2004, 06:51:46 PM »

Powerful stuff! Very challenging and gives much to ponder and pray about.

I am recently born-again and the one the thing I am struggling with is the need to be re-baptized (I was baptized as an infant). I always thought that it would be a fitting touch to my being re-born but now I am wondering if it may be an empty form and not a necessary aspect of the dispensation of grace.

Henry:
From the book Common Questions About the Grace Message by Joel Finck.

QUESTION 9: Why don't you water baptize

9) WHY DO WE WATER BAPTIZE?

Nowhere in Paul’s epistles do you ever find instructions for us to be water baptized. Many recognize that Paul was given revelation from the Lord and that in fact, he

writes directly to the churches and the church leaders, Timothy and Titus and to the saints of the Body of Christ. Yet, does it not strike you as a little strange that if we are supposed to be water baptizing that Paul never tells us to do it. He never tells us how it is supposed to be done, how it should be carried out, who should be doing it, etc.

Why is this? True Christianity is a faith which involves an inward reality, not outward ritual. And yet even as we write this, the vast majority of Christendom, has reverted back to the rituals of the Law and the Jewish Kingdom program.

Israel was a sign nation. God revealed to the Jewish people many outward shows of their faith. These involved sacrifices, water rituals and ceremonial washings, certain meats and drinks, observance of days, etc. All of these being designed to teach certain truths to the nation Israel. As one examines God’s spiritual program for this dispensation, however, as it is revealed to the Apostle of the Gentiles, the Apostle Paul, it soon becomes evident that these outward, visible manifestations of Israel’s religion, do not belong to the Church the Body of Christ. Indeed, they have no place in the practice of our faith in this dispensation. Amazingly, many churches would agree. They would say, of course, we do not observe those Jewish rituals. We have instead our own Christian rituals that we do! Many fail to realize that the so-called Christian ordinances and rituals actually can be traced back to the Jewish program for the nation Israel.

I Corinthians 1:17 says, “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.” Water baptism is not a part of Paul’s commission. Later on we will discuss the Great Commission. One of the reasons many people teach that we should be water baptized is because it is a part of the Great Commission given to the Twelve Apostles. We will deal with that in depth later. But what we need to see here is the Apostle Peter and the other Eleven Apostles could not have said what Paul says here in I Corinthians 1, “Christ sent me not to baptize.” Peter would have been telling a lie if he had said this, because Christ did send him to baptize. “Go ye therefore, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matthew 28:19). Paul was not operating under the commission given to the Twelve Apostles, and neither are we. That Commission was a Kingdom Commission.

Where did water baptism come from and who was the first person who practiced water baptism? Perhaps 99 out of 100 would answer, John the Baptist. He certainly
sounds like one who would be the first to baptize. His name is John the Baptist (or “baptizer”). Why was he called the baptizer? Was he doing something new? No, not at all. Hebrews 9:10 speaks of the “diverse washings” of the Old Testament tabernacle. In the Old Testament, every time you read of a washing at the door of the tabernacle, it is a “baptism”. For the word translated “washings” in Hebrews 9:10 is “baptizmos” or baptisms.

Baptisms did not begin with John the Baptist. He was just continuing that which had been practiced for hundreds of years.

Ephesians 4:3 says, “Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body...” This is the Body of Christ. Then, in verse 5, Paul continues, “There is One Lord, one faith, one baptism...”

This verse has probably been more obscured by theologians than any verse in the Bible. It is not that they have never read it, but that they fail to grasp Paul’s point.

When we search the Scriptures we find that there are as many as twelve baptisms. Some of these are water baptisms of the Law, others are spiritual in nature. In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said, “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.” Right here in this context we see three baptisms - water, Holy Spirit and fire.

Yet, Paul says there is one baptism! Did Paul not know the Scriptures? Of course he did, but Paul is speaking in the context of the Body of Christ and his conclusion is that while there are many baptisms in the Bible - twelve or more - only one of them pertains to us in this dispensation of the Grace of God. Which one do you suppose it is?

I Corinthians 12:12, 13 says, “For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body.”

Here is a spiritual baptism. This baptism has no water whatsoever. It is performed by the Holy Spirit of God. It happens the moment you believe the gospel of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection. The Holy Spirit supernaturally baptizes you into the Body of Christ.

Another translation of the word “baptize” is the word “identify”, because that is what happens when we are saved. We become identified with Christ. What three things did we believe in order to be saved? His death, His burial and His resurrection. What three things are we identified with when we trust him? His death, His burial and His resurrection. This is what Paul is speaking of in Romans 6. Many a fundamentalist preacher is very adamant that this is not a water baptism. And yet, it seems as though by the time they dance all around the subject of baptism, they finally managed to squeeze a few drops of water out of Romans 6. Why is this? It is an attempt to prove a point which cannot be proven from Scripture. Romans 6:3, “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ...” When you believed the gospel the Holy Spirit identified you with Christ. What happened then? “...as many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” You became identified with the death of Christ. What is so important about that? The Scripture says, “All have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).

Furthermore it says, “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). That is spiritual death as well as physical death. Because we are sinful, we must die. We must pay the penalty of sin with our life. But this is what the gospel is all about. Christ came and paid the penalty of sin by dying for us. Therefore, when you believe the gospel, you are baptized or identified with Jesus Christ, and therefore you are baptized into His death. This means you no longer must die spiritually for your sins, because His death is accounted to you. It now belongs to you. And you, therefore, have eternal life. This is the gospel message.

But not only are we identified with His death, verse 4 says, “Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death.” This is the verse where many get the idea that believers should be dunked under water. They assume that since we are buried, we should, therefore, be put in a “watery grave.” But this not only misses the point, it actually totally destroys the meaning that Paul is trying to show. He is not saying you were buried in water. He says you were buried with Christ. His burial becomes your burial by virtue of your baptism into His death. Paul is building on that truth now. Not only are you identified with His death (you no longer have to die for your sins), but you are buried with Him as well.

What is the importance of the burial of Christ? First, it shows Christ really died. You do not bury people who are not dead. He was truly dead and therefore, He was
buried. But it also pictures the putting away of sin. When Christ rose from that grave, our sins stayed buried. This is the imagery that God wants us to see. The fact that we are identified with His death relieves us from having to die for our sins. The fact that we are buried with Him means that those sins are done away with, and finally, weare identified with His resurrection, because of spiritual baptism!

Finally, verse 4 goes on to say, “...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

Because of our identification with Christ, we now have the spiritual equipment by the Holy Spirit to live the Christian life. This is what spiritual baptism is all about.

Why would we trade all this for a water ceremony?

Henry, Also read chapters 10, 11 & 12. I do know that you do have the book.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

Regards,
Henry
Quote

RIGHT ON!!!! AMEN & AMEN, Thanks for posting this.


Brother Love Smiley


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Brother Love
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« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2004, 07:28:57 PM »

The Church

If I started a Church for this generation,
it would be by the Gospel of Pauls Revelation.
Listen my friend to what I have to say,
there be no tradition of men to get in the way.
No water for Baptism but by the Spirit is right,
we'll walk by Faith not by sight.
Now when it comes to Tithing you'll be please to give a share,
it would come from your Heart not out of despire.
The Word would mean what it says and say what it means,
there be no disapointments or any in betweens.
For Paul gives us guide lines without a Law,
from Romans to Philemon it's well worth it all.
For we are one Body and we'll make a strong stand,
with the Helmet of Salvation and the Sword of Truth in our hand.
For every time we are together and meet behind these doors,
we'll know we're complete in Him the Risen Glorified Lord.


Edward B. Yarber, Jr.
Christian
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BigD
Guest
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2004, 08:03:29 PM »

The Church

If I started a Church for this generation,
it would be by the Gospel of Pauls Revelation.
Listen my friend to what I have to say,
there be no tradition of men to get in the way.
No water for Baptism but by the Spirit is right,
we'll walk by Faith not by sight.
Now when it comes to Tithing you'll be please to give a share,
it would come from your Heart not out of despire.
The Word would mean what it says and say what it means,
there be no disapointments or any in betweens.
For Paul gives us guide lines without a Law,
from Romans to Philemon it's well worth it all.
For we are one Body and we'll make a strong stand,
with the Helmet of Salvation and the Sword of Truth in our hand.
For every time we are together and meet behind these doors,
we'll know we're complete in Him the Risen Glorified Lord.


Edward B. Yarber, Jr.
Christian


BigD responds:
AMEN and AMEN

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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Brother Love
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« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2004, 04:17:51 AM »

The Church

If I started a Church for this generation,
it would be by the Gospel of Pauls Revelation.
Listen my friend to what I have to say,
there be no tradition of men to get in the way.
No water for Baptism but by the Spirit is right,
we'll walk by Faith not by sight.
Now when it comes to Tithing you'll be please to give a share,
it would come from your Heart not out of despire.
The Word would mean what it says and say what it means,
there be no disapointments or any in betweens.
For Paul gives us guide lines without a Law,
from Romans to Philemon it's well worth it all.
For we are one Body and we'll make a strong stand,
with the Helmet of Salvation and the Sword of Truth in our hand.
For every time we are together and meet behind these doors,
we'll know we're complete in Him the Risen Glorified Lord.


Edward B. Yarber, Jr.
Christian


BigD responds:
AMEN and AMEN

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

AMEN!!! Brother BigD, AMEN!!!!

Brother Love Smiley


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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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Brother Love
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2004, 04:17:37 PM »

1 Cor 1:1O,13 "NOW I BESEECH YOU BRETHREN,BY THE NAME OF OUR LORD JESUS; THAT YOU ALL SPEAK THE SAME THING,AND THAT THERE BE NO (denominational) DIVISIONS AMONG YOU; BUT THAT YE BE PERFECTLY JOINED TOGETHER; IN THE SAME MIND,AND IN THE SAME JUDGEMENT"--"IS CHRIST DIVIDED"

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