Places to Worship

[lightsavour]

 Sorry I could not wait Petro. I do not claim to have seen the church that the Lord Jesus planted, I HAVE seen it, and do see it bi-weekly. You cannot even know of what I speak if you have no faith that our Lord has a people gathered together in exact accordance to God's desire. If your faith does not stretch this far, then my talking with you is as talking against the wall. I speak of the commandments from the Bible. I speak of the will of God desiring those who are genuine to be gathered together in remembrance. I have said nothing beyond this, yet you continue to haggle me as if I have spoken wrongly.

 Show me my error if I have spoken wrongly of Gods divine planting of assemblies. You have not offered scriptures to me on your feeble understandings of the father as one filled with the accountability of an entire assembly that God plants. God only plants the seed of a circle of believers with the means of correction/teaching/discipline. God plants an assembly of believers with the elder(s) first. This is not something I speak of as concerning a paper I would order online. No my dear friend, God's divine hand raises an elder from a disciple. One who is the representation of Gods government in an assembly. This is not a light thing in no manner of speaking.

 Correction is something that can be taught, as Paul did with many of the New Testament assemblies. However, Paul mentions many times about the removal of false teachers, and he always tells the assemblies/churches to do it. He is telling them to listen to the Holy Spirit and be the discerning voice that writes a person out of the circle. Paul cannot tell anyone in any assembly what to do, because he is just an Apostle. Not just, but in regards to an assembly, he can only teach, he cannot discipline, he has no part in the governance of an assembly. You must see the need for accountability, I dont know why you are avoiding my questions with roundabout comments, trying to make my points seem as childish things in the night.

 I will remain with this question until you bring me evidence otherwise, or until you see what God commands from an assembly/church.

God bless.

[ollie]

Amen Ollie, this person has attacked rather than asked anything. The comments they made I am sure were not meant to say what they did, but were made in haste. I will not question further, but you were on the button exactly. Keep on. But one question, can you possibly clarify how a person is received into the church. We are not talking the Church (the Bride), but the churches that God plants in different areas. Not all are in the church that God has kept since its first being planted after our Lords resurrection. So I wonder what u mean by  

  "One is added to it such as should be saved."  I think what u mean is that if they are genuinely saved then it is in Gods plan for them to be added, but not that they are automatically added.


 Petra, where in the Bible is a father given the divine place of being an elder? If it is within the bible I will take it as truth, but I have never seen nor heard of this scripture. As much as I agree God does not leave the side of those who have no one to be in fellowship with, I have never heard of this truth that supplies the head of a family with the divine right of being a moving testimony of Gods planted church.

 Also, I wonder why my questioning the legitimacy of one man being the holder of all gifts in an assembly of believers... (ie a family by chance) can elude to me believing in a priestly system. And you said it would be something other than that planted by God. Would you agree that every circle of believers should have the ability for God to move and point out someone who should be removed from the circle? How then is this possible to maintain if only one man is in the circle? He then is accountable to only God, which is supreme indeed, yet if he be of a wrong spirit anyways, no one is there to correct him.

 I go to a place called a "Gospel Hall", the word we use for the building itself, not the people within. There are many many many Gospel Halls in this world. Perhaps thousands and all are self governing assemblies. There is no central government. I was at one time in the circle, but because of my own lawlessness I felt it necessary to remove myself. If I had of allowed it to continue without a letter removing myself then I would have been disciplined. The New Testament is very clear there needs to be correction/accountability within an assembly or circle. Therefore the governing head which is the elders, who by the grace of God decide only those things which are quite necessary. There are always an odd number of elders as decisions need to be made in sometimes very difficult situations. My question remains, how is there accountability within a family if the father is the only male?

God bless.

Forgive me for not responding to this more quickly.

In response to your questions about being added to the Lord's church:

 Acts 2:36.  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
 37.  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
 38.  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 39.  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
 40.  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41.  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
 42.  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
 43.  And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
 44.  And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
 45.  And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
 46.  And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
 47.  Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 Acts 5:14.  And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

 Acts 11:24.  For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord.


Believing and obeying adds one to the church. Man accepts Jesus Christ. The Lord adds the man to His ecclessia, (the church).
The man is now one of the called of God which is what comprises God's church.


"Gospel Hall" is a good name for the assembly building used for
the assembly of the church. After all the building is not the church, but those in Christ sitting inside on the seats are the church.

Love in Christ,
Ollie

[Petro]

Reply #15 posted by  lightsaviour

Sorry I could not wait Petro. I do not claim to have seen the church that the Lord Jesus planted, I HAVE seen it, and do see it bi-weekly. You cannot even know of what I speak if you have no faith that our Lord has a people gathered together in exact accordance to God's desire. If your faith does not stretch this far, then my talking with you is as talking against the wall. I speak of the commandments from the Bible. I speak of the will of God desiring those who are genuine to be gathered together in remembrance. I have said nothing beyond this, yet you continue to haggle me as if I have spoken wrongly.

Show me my error if I have spoken wrongly of Gods divine planting of assemblies. You have not offered scriptures to me on your feeble understandings of the father as one filled with the accountability of an entire assembly that God plants. God only plants the seed of a circle of believers with the means of correction/teaching/discipline. God plants an assembly of believers with the elder(s) first. This is not something I speak of as concerning a paper I would order online. No my dear friend, God's divine hand raises an elder from a disciple. One who is the representation of Gods government in an assembly. This is not a light thing in no manner of speaking.

Correction is something that can be taught, as Paul did with many of the New Testament assemblies. However, Paul mentions many times about the removal of false teachers, and he always tells the assemblies/churches to do it. He is telling them to listen to the Holy Spirit and be the discerning voice that writes a person out of the circle. Paul cannot tell anyone in any assembly what to do, because he is just an Apostle. Not just, but in regards to an assembly, he can only teach, he cannot discipline, he has no part in the governance of an assembly. You must see the need for accountability, I dont know why you are avoiding my questions with roundabout comments, trying to make my points seem as childish things in the night.

I will remain with this question until you bring me evidence otherwise, or until you see what God commands from an assembly/church.

God bless.

lightsavior,

Picking back up where we left it,

As I have stated before, you seem to emphasize the physical above the spiritual, and this is why;

You cannot accept the scriptures I have given you, already.

Correction is something that can be taught, as Paul did with many of the New Testament assemblies.

You are stuck on what you see, and emphasize, visible   "church"

In the frist place, I am not your teacher; and, There  is nothing I can teach you, and unless you, allow the Spirit to teach you, you will remain unteachable,  the word is there for you to receive by faith,

What you are unable to see, I see plainly.

Show me my error if I have spoken wrongly of Gods divine planting of assemblies.

Allow me to correct you, in this instance, God never planted assemblies, the church is universal, and only one body, whosoever belongs to the body, has liberty, and worships God in the Spirit, not according to your understanding, and specifically in your way.

Each member of the body possess a gift divinely given according to the will of the Holy Spirit, and they are specifically given for the edification of the body, for exhortation, teaching and growing in grace that the man of God, be perfectly equipped unto all good works.

This just like what you were unable to see, the first encounter we had, when you accused Jason, of being loose with the word, and taking lightly the things of God, worship of God, is not being a legalist an saying, it can only be done this way, and it is only the correct way.  What you apparently see as the only way, to worship, in a formal setting, with an ordained minister, elders, and some structured service, is not what is in view here, as I have explained it.

A family group, with a Father as leader, can hold worship services honoring God and worshipping Him, in Spirit and Truth.

Blessings,

Petro

[pnotc]

Petro-

And you always emphasize the spiritual at the expense of the physical!  How can you say God never planted assemblies?  Aren't all of Paul's epistles addressed to churches assembled in specific cities?  Did he not plant in specific places and did not those cities and areas prosper and grow?  The earliest Christians in a given city subordinated themselves to the bishop of that city or geographic region.  How are those not discreetly defined assemblies?  Now, those individual assemblies were/are all part of the larger Church, ie, the Body of Christ, just as all the individual people in the local church make up that specific assembly.  The Church is both physical and spiritual, and because of this, it is manifested both physically and spiritually.  

You accuse lightsaviour of being stuck upon what he sees, when it is abundantly clear that you are stuck upon what is in your head.  What you claim to see plainly, is only plain to you.  To the rest of us, the Church does indeed have a very physical, very immediate representation on earth.  I do not mean individual buildings, but in the physical bodies of all Christians - or are we not the Temple of the Lord?

"whosoever belongs to the body, has liberty, and worships God in the Spirit, not according to your understanding, and specifically in your way."

I would like to point out that this also means that you should not judge others who profess and confess Christ, since you yourself say that it is not limited to an individual's understanding.  If you truly believe this, why are you so condemning of Orthodox Christians?  

[Petro]

pnotc,

I agree with you, however, the discussion, seems to be stuck, at a point, where lightsaviour insists that, it is not possible that a family group, is unable to worship God, apart from, structured setting, I have pointed out, this is not so, in order to unstick the conversation, one must see, the spiritual truth of the church structure.

The church is the body of Christ.

By the way, Jesus is the Captain of of the Armies of Jehovah, is the same Captain, of the Host of Jehovah who are all those who are saved.  (Heb 2:10)


Petro