question about the occult...

[Pinky]

Hi there,
In England on Monday night there was a programme called 'Derren Brown - Séance' on TV. For those of you who don't know, Derren Brown is an illusionist. He basically got a few students together - about 15 i think and did a oija board with them and performed a séance. I did not watch this programme as I believe what the Bible says about the occult here > Isaiah 8:16-20 Deut 18:9-13, 1Sam 28:3-25 and 2Kings 17:17.
I suppose what I want to ask is why do people get so sucked in to things like this? I believe it is both pointless and dangerous to get involved with the occult, so why do you think it is such a tempting thing?
Also along these lines, what do you think about Harry Potter? - I personally love the books, but witchcraft and wizardry is completely forbidden in the Bible. Do you think it is ok to read these books having a really strong grounding in the Christian faith, or do you think it can be really damaging?
I look forward to your replies!
God Bless,
Marie
xxx

[Gracey]

I suppose what I want to ask is why do people get so sucked in to things like this? I believe it is both pointless and dangerous to get involved with the occult, so why do you think it is such a tempting thing?

I think for the same reason that Eve was tempted.

As to why people get sucked in, sometimes people just want to believe in something. It's not the right thing, but they are seeking for an "afterlife" .... to believe we don't just "stop" when we die. That won't be the reason for everyone; but it was the reason I got involved in ouija as a teenager. Thankfully, God sent someone to show me the truth.

Also along these lines, what do you think about Harry Potter?

It's kind of hard to make a judgement call on something I haven't read, and to be honest, have no desire to read. I'll leave that to someone else.

Peace

Gracey

[JudgeNot]

The wise answer is “just don’t go there.”  Watching a movie or reading a book – when you know you (with the Lord) are in control is one thing.  Oija boards, Séance's, etc. – those ‘practices’ where you are actually expected to speak to and conjur up “spirits” are dangerous.  Those “spirits” are Satan’s angels.  Lucifer’s angels are pure evil with one goal and one goal only – to take you from Christ with all possible means.  

[MalkyEL]

Jesus said that whatever is in a person's heart is what he thinks  [Matt 15:15-20]

If you lust in your heart, you have committed adultery.  If you hate your brother in your heart, you have committed murder.  If you enjoy reading stories or going to movies about the occult, withcraft, magic, etc - it is as if you have done them.

Psalm 101:3 I will set no wicked thing before my eyes. I have hated the work of those who turn aside; it shall not hold on to me.

1 Thess 5:22 Abstain from every appearance of evil.

Phil 4:8 Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things.

Gal 5:16 I say, then, Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
24 But those belonging to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Deut 18:9 ¶ When you come to the land which the LORD your God gives you, you shall not learn to do according to the abominations of those nations.
10 There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that uses divination, an observer of clouds, or a fortune-teller, or a witch,
11 or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or one who calls to the dead.
12 For all that do these things are an abomination to the LORD. And because of these abominations the LORD your God drives them out from before you.
13 You shall be perfect with the LORD your God.

shalom, MalkyEL  

[Pinky]

Thanks for your responses!
I have personally never been the teeniest bit tempted to get involved in magic, oija boards or anything else to do with the occult. I was just interested to see what others thought.
It is something I worry about a lot because it is so attractive to non christians - especially séances and going to visit mediums, because they don't know what happens to their friends and family when they die. I guess they find it a comfort. I really pray that people wouldn't be tempted and fooled by it!!

I also want to ask about Masons. Does anyone know anything about them? I ask because a lot of the men that go to my church are involved in masonry. They call themselves Christians and do a lot of good work, but I have heard that some of the rituals and vows they perform and take are definitely not Christian. Other than that I know nothing about it. I just get a feeling that it has its roots in evil - Can anyone help?

Thanks again!
Marie

[MalkyEL]

Here is a link that explains some things about the masonic lodge.  Sadly Christians are not aware of what goes on in the  lodge at a deeper level.  Many organizations consider themselves Christian and promote that concept.  However; we are called to search out and test the spirits behind these organizations.

The "bible" for free masonry is Albert Pike's book:  Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

Just one quote so you understand how unBiblical it is:

"[The Mason] must declare his faith in a Supreme Being before he may be initiated. But note that he is not required to say, then or ever, what God. He may name him as he will, think of him as he pleases; make him impersonal law or personal and anthropomorphic; Freemasonry cares not...God, Great Architect of the Universe, Grand Artificer, Grand Master of the Grand Lodge Above, Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Vishnu, Shiva, or Great Geometer."

(Carl H. Claudy, Introduction to Freemasonry, vol. 2 (Washington: The Temple, 1984)

Here is the site - it is a must read and will shock you as to the demonic influence within its teachings.

http://www.myfortress.org/masoniclodge.html#anchor_16

[Pinky]

Thank you so much MalkyEL! That certainly helps a lot!!
Marie

[Hariko]

In relation to the Harry Potter inquiry--

I’ve read 4 out of 5 of them just to see what the fuss was about and they’re honestly, in comparison to much of the media today, not bad. The main plot revolves around wizards and magic, yes... but it’s quite evident of the impossibility of it and the way it’s written gives it more of a child-like feel. If you take it seriously and believe you’re going to be sent a letter from Hogworts then there might be a problem. Otherwise, I believe the Simpsons and American Idol to be more “evil’ than Harry Potter.

[ollie]

Talk about evil. How many times can the roadrunner "revenge" itself on the coyote? Or Bugs Bunny on Elmer Fudd? Did I leave out that canary and the "puddy" cat?

[Pinky]

I too love the harry potter books. Read them all more than once and can't wait to see the film on saturday!  

[Forrest]

Hi there,
In England on Monday night there was a programme called 'Derren Brown - Séance' on TV. For those of you who don't know, Derren Brown is an illusionist. He basically got a few students together - about 15 i think and did a oija board with them and performed a séance. I did not watch this programme as I believe what the Bible says about the occult here > Isaiah 8:16-20 Deut 18:9-13, 1Sam 28:3-25 and 2Kings 17:17.
I suppose what I want to ask is why do people get so sucked in to things like this? I believe it is both pointless and dangerous to get involved with the occult, so why do you think it is such a tempting thing?
Also along these lines, what do you think about Harry Potter? - I personally love the books, but witchcraft and wizardry is completely forbidden in the Bible. Do you think it is ok to read these books having a really strong grounding in the Christian faith, or do you think it can be really damaging?
I look forward to your replies!
God Bless,
Marie
xxx

I suppose what I want to ask is why do people get so sucked in to things like this? I believe it is both pointless and dangerous to get involved with the occult, so why do you think it is such a tempting thing?

 
       Its easy, most are not Christian even if they claim to be, then the ones that are where never grounded in the faith, thus easy prey for any Demon that came along. As for nonChristians they already belong to Satin, it's our purpose to tell them about Jesus, that they to can have salvation, and a relationshipwith a Loving GOD.

Also along these lines, what do you think about Harry Potter? - I personally love the books, but witchcraft and wizardry is completely forbidden in the Bible. Do you think it is ok to read these books having a really strong grounding in the Christian faith, or do you think it can be really damaging?

         As to the Harry Potter books, true they are fiction, but they have lead many into a interest in Withcraft than to Wica.
  As to the second part," Do you think it is ok to read these books having a really strong grounding in the Christian faith, or do you think it can be really damaging?" Is it ok? NO, now matter how well Grounded one is. Why would be the next question, I;ll give scripture as to my stand.
   ROM 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
 Even if you are well grounded are all what if a week one is waching you, and yes week brothers,and sisters do look to the stronger ones for giudence if they saw or even heard that read books like that, and read also then stumbled that would be on us. So NO.

[CleansedSpirit]

I suppose what I want to ask is why do people get so sucked in to things like this? I believe it is both pointless and dangerous to get involved with the occult, so why do you think it is such a tempting thing?

If you are not a Christian, or you are a weak Christian, the sinful, lustful, wordly heart that is inside of you is influenced by Satan. And Magic(k), the Oujii board, and other tools of darkness are his, so your fleshly heart will be pulled towards it.

Also along these lines, what do you think about Harry Potter? - I personally love the books, but witchcraft and wizardry is completely forbidden in the Bible. Do you think it is ok to read these books having a really strong grounding in the Christian faith, or do you think it can be really damaging?

 If you have a strong foundation in Christ, I think that you can read such things...but if you find yourself being affected by them in a sinful way, you should STOP.

The wise answer is “just don’t go there.”  Watching a movie or reading a book – when you know you (with the Lord) are in control is one thing.  Oija boards, Séance's, etc. – those ‘practices’ where you are actually expected to speak to and conjur up “spirits” are dangerous.  Those “spirits” are Satan’s angels.  Lucifer’s angels are pure evil with one goal and one goal only – to take you from Christ with all possible means.  

I applaud your answer, JudgeNot. It was beautiful.

[iconHis]

This is proof of our world today.
Of course, there has been quite a bit of conditioning since the big " to each their own" attitude.

But let's really think about truth.

Is there a gray area with God?

Do you believe in God?

Is not Satan real?

If you cannot see satan, does that mean he's not as real as God?

Some people choose to believe certain ways for certain reasons.  Here we go....Well, you know, we do need to draw a line somewhere... this is the gray area.

God is 100% or not.  The Word of God is 100%.  Those who do not have the fear of God enough-beware!  When God says not to have anything to do with witchcraft, the appearance of evil, that satan has the rule over this earth, then does that mean:

kinda of touch it
kind of check it out and discern just because it has a little evil
  !!!! WITHCHCRAFT BEING THE WHOLE THEME !!!!
  that it's okay to read or do
kind of watch it ?

Does God say kind of believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ and you will be save"?

When God says there is an evil being here on earth, such as Satan, he means it.  

We are not living in the invisible spiritual world, we do not have the strength to "ward" off Satan, and we must leave this all up to God.  He will take care of that, we are just to obey his commandments such as these, just as the Old Testament saints were to obey on cleanliness-so we are not harmed also.  

God did intend for us to live by his Word, even in these most
"knowlegeable" days.  

Satan loves it when we don't take him seriously.  I bet he loves it when people think of him as a cartoon instead of real.  I really feel sorry for the younger who are sooo unaware of the basic facts in God's plan for man.  I think the idea that living for God is a bunch of no no's and ridiculous in many liberal people today, referring to the unsaved.  It is a very serious thing when we read and do not adhere.  

All scripture afore mentioned in this thread  is so pertaining to everything I just mentioned.

Please, brethern, don't take these things on earth so lightly.  It's not good for your soul salvation.  You might be saved, but you are not at the end yet and your walk in life in the Lord nowadays is difficult enough to stay focused.  We do have sin within, and we are not perfect.  

We do not have the power to overcome Satan.  Only God can do this.

God tells us to be somber, and this is one of the times I will be somber, I know how these things can affect people sometimes in different ways.

In love in Jesus Christ, our Lord   iconHis

[MalkyEL]

IconHis  wrote:
God is 100% or not.  The Word of God is 100%.  Those who do not have the fear of God enough-beware!  When God says not to have anything to do with witchcraft, the appearance of evil, that satan has the rule over this earth, then does that mean:

kinda of touch it
kind of check it out and discern just because it has a little evil
  !!!! WITHCHCRAFT BEING THE WHOLE THEME !!!!
  that it's okay to read or do
kind of watch it ?

Does God say kind of believe on the Lord, Jesus Christ and you will be save"?

When God says there is an evil being here on earth, such as Satan, he means it.  

We are not living in the invisible spiritual world, we do not have the strength to "ward" off Satan, and we must leave this all up to God.  He will take care of that, we are just to obey his commandments such as these, just as the Old Testament saints were to obey on cleanliness-so we are not harmed also.  

God did intend for us to live by his Word, even in these most
"knowlegeable" days.  

Satan loves it when we don't take him seriously.  I bet he loves it when people think of him as a cartoon instead of real.  I really feel sorry for the younger who are sooo unaware of the basic facts in God's plan for man.  I think the idea that living for God is a bunch of no no's and ridiculous in many liberal people today, referring to the unsaved.  It is a very serious thing when we read and do not adhere.

*********************************
Thank you SO much - you are exactly right on!!!!!

Have NO appearance of evil - do not touch, do not see, do not befriend.

James 4:3 You ask and receive not, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it upon your lusts.
4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever desires to be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
5 Do you think that the Scripture says in vain, The spirit that dwells in us yearns to envy?
6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says, God resists the proud, but He gives grace to the humble.
7 Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners; and purify your hearts, double-minded ones.

2 Peter 2:20 For if they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the full knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and are again entangled, they have been overcome by these, their last things are worse than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them not to have fully known the way of righteousness, than fully knowing it , to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
22 But the word of the true proverb has happened to them: The dog turning to his own vomit; and, The washed sow to wallowing in the mire.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world, nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him,
16 because all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passes away, and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Shalom, MalkyEL

[iconHis]

Thanks for the scripture, MalekyEl!  I have to get going to work and didn't really have the time to get it out, that's why I wrote to all of the above scripture given.  I appreciate that because scripture is our foundation and God works through it!

Got to go, lost an hour with earhtly gain, but gained an hour in christian fellowship in the Lord!

     iconHIs