sin

[me]

To all my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, first of all i would like to apologize,if the word or parable that i use on my latest posting are confusing and really unacceptable. I hope you all will forgive me for the wrong thing i have done.

"Each person remains responsible for the life and choices they make."

I really agree with the quote from Raphu.

For Heidi, the verses are(if i'm not wrong) Psalm 139 : 13
"for Thou hast possessed my reins: Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb."

I will give a few verses about predestination, please judge it by yourself.
Romans 9 : 10-13
" And not only this;but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (for the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth;) it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have Iloved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 9 : 15
" I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion"

Romans 9 : 18
" Therefore hath He mercy on whom He will have mercy, and whom He will he hardeneth"

Romans 9 : 20-24
" Nay, but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had afore prepared unto glory, even us,whom He hath called..."
     
I Peter 2 :8
" And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient:whereunto also they were appointed"
GBU allways.

[Gracey]

Maybe this one:

Jer 1:5  Before I formed you in the belly I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I consecrated you, and I ordained you a prophet to the nations.

[Raphu]

There is the only thing I don't like about man holding God's power of election in their imagination. I understand election as far as I think a man should understand it - with utter humility. It can be used as Job's friends as an eliteist way of judging others as non-elect or as sinners if one is not careful, and then a person is not believing all things in love, as 1 Corinthians 13 tells us to do - giving the benefit of the doubt to others, thinking what is possibly the best about them with mercy until they are proven and known wrong.

Beyond lives lived perfectly before God, there are those who make the mistakes and have to go to the Lord for the grace of forgiveness after making a total mess of their lives. People who are proud of God's provision may be eventually humbled because pride goes before a fall, even if it is pride in God's provision - like the Pharisees pride. We are to walk humbly, love mercy and do justly before the Lord. Even David complained of how the wicked prospered all the rime and worn their pride like a neckless while he got caught and paid a price in correction for every sin he did. So just because one looks prosperous does not reveal anything about them spiritually to man.

Psalms 73:2 But as for me, I came so close to the edge of the cliff! My feet were slipping, and I was almost gone.
3 For I envied the proud when I saw them prosper despite their wickedness.
4 They seem to live such a painless life; their bodies are so healthy and strong.
5 They aren't troubled like other people or plagued with problems like everyone else.
6 They wear pride like a jeweled necklace, and their clothing is woven of cruelty.
7 These fat cats have everything their hearts could ever wish for!
8 They scoff and speak only evil; in their pride they seek to crush others.
9 They boast against the very heavens, and their words strut throughout the earth.
10 And so the people are dismayed and confused, drinking in all their words.

I think election in man's imagination can easily detract from a person's humility and because a life is smooth or harsh in another person's life can only be interpreted by God, as Jobs life tells us. The most wise men were all wrong about Job except for the youngest fellow, Elihu, who upheld God's sovereignty in the correct manner - speaking of God's awsome power as Ruler and Creator, hunbly, instead of accusing Job of sins.

Micah 6:8  He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
 God bless...

[Heidi]

Your last several posts are what I have always believed. I do not believe in free will but instead, that we are chosen by God. I have encountered many atheists who do not WANT heaven and have told me they are proud of that fact. My explanation of this is that since they do not know what they're missing, they might not suffer like we Christians would who have received the Holy Spirit for we already know His glory. Hell would indeed be life without God's spirit forvever. The wicked and the proud have already received their reward in full. Otherwise, why would God punish the people He didn't choose with eternal torture?

[Heidi]

Thanks, Gracey. That's the one I was looking for. I always wonder why he put me in my particular mother's womb. This is sooooo interesting to me.

[smartinez1984]

Interesting, to say the least.

Heidi, you don't believe in free will. I'm curious as to the extent of that belief; does that mean that even your "unbelief" in free will is not your choice? Are any decisions, thoughts, etc. really yours?

It would seem to me that we either have free will or we don't. That would mean that my decision to write these words, think these thoughts, make the decision to go get coffee after I complete these lines, etc. are either mine or they are not.

Or are we saying that the decision to choose Him is the only decision where free will does not come into play?

God Bless,

-Samson

[Heidi]

Hi Smartinez,
I just explained that in the thread; "Why does God punish those he did not Choose?" You might want to check it out.

[me]

we have free will. But, our free will are limited in GOD's absolute decision and plan. It's really a difficult, yet interesting topics to be talked about.GBU

[Heidi]

God is either in control or He isn't. We can't have it both ways. That's why God allows us the freedom of action while we, all the while, think we are acting freely. Again, the analogy of a parent/child relationship illustrates this. We had a good question in bible study this week. God said he would raise up a foolish shepherd who would turn out to be the anti-christ. The questions was; "Will all the men who believe the anti-christ think they are acting freely, or will they know it was God's will?" What do you think the answer to that question is?

[smartinez1984]

Will the Anti-Christ be acting freely?

[Heidi]

No. God is in control of the universe. Otherwise, Revelations couldn't have been written. Zechariah, 13:16-17, "For I am going to raise up a shepherd over the land who will not care for the lost, or seek the young, or heal the injured, or feed the healthy, but will eat the meat of the choice sheep, tearing off their hoofs."

I was watching a show on the Nazi's tonight. They are as unaware of why they hate the Jews as we are that God is watching over us and dictates our every move. Proverbs, 16:9, "For in his heart, a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps."  All the Nazi's know is that they hate the Jews. There is no reason for this except that it was prophesied by Jesus prophesied in Matthew, 23:35, "And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar." It was also prophesied in the OT. Nobody has the power to change God's will.