Bush in iraq..good or not?

[Tibby]

Hello,
 Do you think bush sending troops to iraq to destroy family, houses, lives etc was a good thing to do?

a good thing ? no absolutely not. just the right thing to do..
its a good thing al gore wasnt president thank you florida

Thank the Supreme Court.

Thank the voters.

[Allinall]

Torture, Broken? Torture? PLEASE! Being hung on a cross, that is torture. Being stretched across a rack, that is torture. Cutting finger off, that is torture. Making POWs pile up, not torture.

Being forced to commit sexual acts? Not torture?

No. Not good, but not torture. And even if it is well... so what? Why are the we only country that has to abide by the Geneva Convention? No one gets upset about other country torturing Americans, with there Government supporting it, but when a set rogue solders mock a few POWs, and the Government frouns on it, we get hammered by every pansy Nation in the World.

Take pictures of POWs without clothing on, not torture.

Humiliation of that sort is defined as torture.

By who? Who defined torture as humilation? Fred Savage?  

Just wishing on that star, Broken, maybe America will fall soon, too.

Ah, I see, it is acceptable to you for your soldiers to behave in such ways.

Said who? Not me.

Dear me, Tibby, it is people like yourself who are giving America an incredibly bad name across Europe and the Middle East.

Well, what can I say, we are the strongest country in the world. We have States larger then most countries. It is to bad you don’t like us, but, well, honestly, there is nothing you can do about it. If you feel so strongly about it, boycott us. Oh wait, most counties are dependent on trade with America, aren’t that? Whine all you want, none of these countries are going to do a thing about it.

Of course, I do find it interesting that in a male dominated society which values manhood so highly, that when they take guy, strip him down and have a woman mock his manhood, such things would be very much spirit breaking.  And if you're looking for information...just a thought.  Not condoning or supporting.  Just pointing out the apparantly not blatantly obvious.

[Tibby]

Shameful, allinall, yes, but taking pictures of a mans genital, while humiliating, is not torture. Torture is cutting his **** off with a dull knife, then crushing the **** in a clamp.

[Broken]

I don’t see a part that says Humiliation is torture. Maybe you should read it.

Try the eighth amendment. I should not be having to tell you your own law.

I have yet to see any torture of Iraqi prisoners.  

Try watching the news.

Go ahead, oppose us. I'm all for you opposing us. So, why don't you stop whinging and start opposing?

I don't want to oppose America as such, I am already opposing you, or hadn't you noticed?

Ok, go a head, tell me how it really was, then.

Well it certainly wasn't to save the Jews. No country entered the war for that reason.

[Tibby]

I don’t see a part that says Humiliation is torture. Maybe you should read it.

Try the eighth amendment. I should not be having to tell you your own law.

I have some bad news for you. That Constitution, only for Americans. That’s rights. You see, not all leaders feel the need to grant their people these rights. It is a shame. On top of that, Cruel and unusual has been ruled as Torture. And I didn’t see any torture.

I have yet to see any torture of Iraqi prisoners.    

Try watching the news.

I'm a Political Science Major, it is a requirement I’m seen High School baseball teams do worse in their hazing of Freshmen.

Go ahead, oppose us. I'm all for you opposing us. So, why don't you stop whinging and start opposing?

I don't want to oppose America as such, I am already opposing you, or hadn't you noticed?

Yeah, you know, it's funny, I haven't had much opposition. Keep trying.

Ok, go a head, tell me how it really was, then.

Well it certainly wasn't to save the Jews. No country entered the war for that reason.

Who said it was to save the Jews? Wars arn't fought for some distant minorities torture (THAT is torture). I never said we fough to save Jews. We did, however, end up saving both the jews AND not-so-Great Britain. Now tell me, how is that rewriting the past?

[sincereheart]

The RESERVISTS actions are disgusting!  

Whether or not it's 'torture'; it definitely is juvenile and dishonorable. Because of the actions of the Army RESERVISTS they've given our whole military and our whole country a bad name. I think they should be handed over to the Iraqi's to deal with.  

[Tibby]

Only problem is, what Iraqi's? There really arn't any Iraqi's to deal with it. We are their policing force, we are there court system, for now, we are there Government.

Besides, it looks like the Iraqi's already handled it in their own way. Ahd it is strange, the media still seems even more outraged about the photo's!  

[new_self]

Things are not as the News Media reports!!!!!!!!

         As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I

wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have

done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry

that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back

home.

         And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in

Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you.  This is the

list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with

your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing)

         Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time

ever in Iraq.

         Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations.

         Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that

were stored there so education can occur.

         The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off loaded from

ships faster.

         School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.

         The country had it's first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.

         The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before

the war.

         100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35%

before

         the war.

         Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are

in place.

         Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.

         Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.

         Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.

         Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side

with US soldiers.

         Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.

         Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to

prevent the spread of germs.

         An interim constitution has been signed.

         Girls are allowed to attend school for the first time ever in Iraq.

         Text books that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the

first time in 30 years.

         Don't believe for one-second that these people do not want us there.

I have met many people from Iraq that want us there and in a bad way. They

say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their

children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone,

anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John

Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa.

This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

 

         Ray Reynolds, SFC

         Iowa Army National Guard

         234th Signal Battalion

          =====

I got this in an e-mail and thought I would share.

[Broken]

I have some bad news for you. That Constitution, only for Americans. That’s rights. You see, not all leaders feel the need to grant their people these rights. It is a shame.

Naturally you feel that an American is worth more than any other race, including races you are actually ruling.

On top of that, Cruel and unusual has been ruled as Torture. And I didn’t see any torture.

Cruel and unusual does not just mean "electrodes on the genitals". It was also defined as things like imprisonment without trial, humiliation, sleep deprivation.....etc etc etc.

I'm a Political Science Major, it is a requirement I’m seen High School baseball teams do worse in their hazing of Freshmen.

Ah, yes the institutionalised torture prevalent among American men. We've heard of that over here.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, I haven't had much opposition. Keep trying.

You didn't learn much in your political classes, huh?

Who said it was to save the Jews? Wars arn't fought for some distant minorities torture (THAT is torture). I never said we fough to save Jews. We did, however, end up saving both the jews AND not-so-Great Britain. Now tell me, how is that rewriting the past?

Assuming you were the only ones fighting against the Nazis and making it into a moral crusade makes it plain that the rumours we hear about the state of American education are, alas, true.

[Reba]

Thanks for sharing your email New_Self.  

Our service people are mostly good. As in any group of people there are bad 'apples'. Seems many folks here and overseas want America to fail and try hard to make it seem as she has failed. I have distant family over there and their reports agree with your email.

Thanks to all who serve...

[Tibby]

I have some bad news for you. That Constitution, only for Americans. That’s rights. You see, not all leaders feel the need to grant their people these rights. It is a shame.

Naturally you feel that an American is worth more than any other race, including races you are actually ruling.

Actually, that isn’t I said.

On top of that, Cruel and unusual has been ruled as Torture. And I didn’t see any torture.

Cruel and unusual does not just mean "electrodes on the genitals". It was also defined as things like imprisonment without trial,

While that is wrong, it is not counted under the phrase "Cruel and unusual " in the 8th amendment. That is the Fifth Amendment.

humiliation,

I would love to see that in writing.

sleep deprivation.....etc etc etc.

Yeah, that counts. Why does it count, you ask? Simple: that is Torture...

I'm a Political Science Major, it is a requirement I’m seen High School baseball teams do worse in their hazing of Freshmen.

Ah, yes the institutionalised torture prevalent among American men. We've heard of that over here..

If you think it is just American Men, you have another thing coming.

Yeah, you know, it's funny, I haven't had much opposition. Keep trying.

You didn't learn much in your political classes, huh?.

Oh, I learned plenty.

Who said it was to save the Jews? Wars arn't fought for some distant minorities torture (THAT is torture). I never said we fough to save Jews. We did, however, end up saving both the jews AND not-so-Great Britain. Now tell me, how is that rewriting the past?

Assuming you were the only ones fighting against the Nazis and making it into a moral crusade makes it plain that the rumours we hear about the state of American education are, alas, true.

Who said we where the only ones? France fell and England was in shambles when America joined, and this joining turned the war. Do you deny this?

[nChrist]

New_Self Said:

This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.

Oklahoma Howdy to New_Self,

I am a proud Navy dad. My son serves on the Nimitz. You are right that the news media is not covering all of the good that's being done. You are giving an entire country freedom, but you are also making sure your children and grandchildren have freedom.

MY SINCERE THANKS!!!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Willowbirch]

Its not just those who have already died. Right now, you do not want to be an American and taken prisoner in Iraq. All they're going to think is, if they are going to torture people, they'll get the same back.

Didn't they hate us before?   Some current and future killings and torture may be "justified" by the fact that some of our soldiers abused some of theirs; but have things really changed? Wouldn't they have harmed us (or wanted to) anyway, if we had not done something disgraceful?
I've read that the cell in which Iraqi prisoners were mistreated was the same building in which Saddam Hussein and his friends routinely raped and tortured Iraqi people. What we did was wrong; but surely it occurs to you that, while some of America's soldiers grossly overstepped their bounds, our government and its Army are disgusted and willing to punish such behavior, whereas the government of Saddam approved it. The very fact that our media is blasting President Bush, our army, etc. for this crime shows how quick America is to condemn such practises.
Under the "Old regime", if an athlete performed poorly, they were likely to be beaten or raped. Athletes now live in much less fear of such cruel treatment from their own leaders.

America has made some mistakes, of course; its war, expect it. But the men and women who are fighting out there are fighting for justice, and I don't believe it is right to smear everyone for the war crimes of a few.

[sincereheart]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4982402/
This what makes me so angry about what the abuse scandal has caused:

"We're out here working our rears off, every day, and most people embrace us," said Haggart, a pale 21-year-old from Vancouver, Wash. But, he said, the uproar over prisoner abuse "has tarnished that."

Disclosure of prisoner abuse has further complicated life for front-line soldiers, mostly by giving resistance leaders a new rallying point against the occupation.

But they worried that a group described by one sergeant as "a few stupid privates" has tainted the collective mission in the eyes of the world, including an American public bombarded with the images in the news media.

But this is my fervent hope:

Spec. Dainon Jensen, a 25-year-old from Portland, Ore., predicted that the scandal "will blow over after people are punished. What we're doing here is going to have to work. If America will ever be secure, places like Iraq will have to govern themselves. That's what America really has to give."