Christ's Church

[lightsavour]

 There is a mighty difference between the Bride which is the Church( all saints.) And the many different churches or assemblies of believers. For one, when you are saved you are automatically in the Church. If the Lord return while your breath remains then you WILL be raptured as one with all saints, the BRIDE. The second is that not everyone that is saved is in a church that the Lord has planted. This is obvious when there are numbered few in denominations that have genuine life, yet partake in rituals and teachings that are against the word of God. These places, and not ALL are denominations, are not churches planted by Christ at all.
   They are man made things. Made for the purpose of changing the word, which is wrong.

God bless.

[Wreck N Sow]

Im not going sit and argue about this but heres some scriptures that are quite interesting.

ACTS 17  [24] God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

MARK 14  [57] And there arose certain, and bare false witness against him, saying,[58] We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

ZECH.6  [12] And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:[13] Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

1COR.3 [16] Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?[17] If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

Just somethin to think about

[Wreck N Sow]

Hi Lightsavour
You wrote
If the Lord return while your breath remains then you WILL be raptured as one with all saints, the BRIDE

What does scripture below mean. Whats it saying about the bride?

JER.16  [9] For thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Behold, I will cause to cease out of this place in your eyes, and in your days, the voice of mirth, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride.[10] And it shall come to pass, when thou shalt shew this people all these words, and they shall say unto thee, Wherefore hath the LORD pronounced all this great evil against us? or what is our iniquity? or what is our sin that we have committed against the LORD our God?[11] Then shalt thou say unto them, Because your fathers have forsaken me, saith the LORD, and have walked after other gods, and have served them, and have worshipped them, and have forsaken me, and have not kept my law;

Verse 11? Do you suppose GODS people will be keeping HIS law. Every jot and tittle, till heaven and earth pass. I am walkin on terra firma, aint i ?

[lightsavour]

 I dont know where you are walking. But you are disputing something that shows where your soul stands. It stands in a place I do not want to converse with. If you come back to this thread with some discernment and ask a question in a clear fashion I will gladly respond clearly. Until then I deem your words as either plain ignorant, or troublesome to those who really want to get truth out of the word of God. Surely you dont question the truth of the Rapture?

God bless.

[Wreck N Sow]

I see you dont hide your light under a bushel.
You could be correct in callin me plain ignorant. But is that what you are to do

Let it shine, let it shine, let it shine

[John the Baptist]

John here:
just an honest question, is there real sincerity here on this thread?

[ollie]

Jesus shed His blood for the church - Acts 20:28; Ephesians 5.

Acts 20:17.  And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
 18.  And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
 19.  Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
 20.  And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
 21.  Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 22.  And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
 23.  Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
 24.  But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
 25.  And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
 26.  Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
 27.  For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
 28.  Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
 29.  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
 30.  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 Ephesians 5:25.  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
 26.  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
 27.  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


 Christ shed His blood to sanctify whosoever will come to Him, and they in turn are members of His body, this is the church, which are the saved.
Obedience to God sanctifies one through Christs blood and adds one to His church, the saved.

[John the Baptist]

No answer to the question seen in this post here. --J/t/B/
*****

Jesus shed His blood for the church - Acts 20:28; Ephesians 5.

Acts 20:17.  And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.
 18.  And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,
 19.  Serving the Lord with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:
 20.  And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house,
 21.  Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
 22.  And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:
 23.  Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.
 24.  But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.
 25.  And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
 26.  Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
 27.  For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
 28.  Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
 29.  For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
 30.  Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

 Ephesians 5:25.  Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
 26.  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
 27.  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


 Christ shed His blood to sanctify whosoever will come to Him, and they in turn are members of His body, this is the church, which are the saved.
Obedience to God sanctifies one through Christs blood and adds one to His church, the saved.

[ollie]

The church is the koinonia of God's people in the world. Here is where we especially see the church as a means that the Holy Spirit uses to make Christ really present. The church is the people of God in the world for the salvation of the world. The church is the koinonia of Christ in the world to make Christ really present in and for the world. The church is the people of God in mission.

To discuss the mission of the church, we need to define three terms: Dominion of God, church, and world.

The Dominion or Reign of God is the final goal of the whole creation in Christ by the Spirit in which all creation is finally liberated from all bondage to alienation and death. Jesus' proclamation centred on announcing the presence of the Dominion. The Reign of God is the primary reality toward which the Spirit is drawing all creation.

The world is creation, the arena for the realization of the Dominion, but which now lives under the domination of alienation and death. Thus the world currently exists in a duality as that which God is acting to save and as that which opposes God's act of salvation.

In this context we see the church - the people of God in Christ by the Spirit whose life revolves around the proclamation and enacting of the Gospel and who is called into mission in the world - is that part of the world which by the work of the Spirit and in the Spirit has accepted the Reign of God as primary reality. The church is the koinonia where the memory of the Dominion in Christ and the hope of the Reign in the Spirit is alive. The church is not itself the Dominion, but it is, like Christ's words and actions, a sign of the presence of the Reign of God.

Because the world is both being saved and resisting salvation, and because the church is a sign of the presence of the Dominion but not itself the Reign, the church always exists in some tension with both the world and the Dominion.

If the church and the world are too closely identified, then the church becomes a mere institution which cannot save anyone from alienation and death because it itself is only a part of the systems of alienation and death. Such a church is an enemy of salvation and works against the coming Reign of God.

On the other hand, if the church assumes itself to be identified with the Dominion, it becomes an institution of Platonic triumphalism which either separates itself from the world - the very world God has sent the church to save - or establishes itself as an alternative source of worldly power. In either case such a church is an enemy of salvation and works against the coming Rule of God.

In its history the church has fallen prey to both of these temptations, and sometimes both at once. The church is not sent to confuse itself with the world or with the Dominion, but to be a sign of the presence of God's future in the midst of the world.

Thus we speak of the church as the means of the Spirit to make Christ really present in the world. The Reign of God is present whenever Christ is present, for Christ not only announces this rule, Christ is the Dominion of God. The Reign of God is fulfilled when all creation is brought by the Spirit under the Lordship of Christ. The role of the church is to be used by the Spirit to make Christ really present in and for the world. Since the goal of history is bringing all creation into Christ, the focus of the church can never be inward, but is always outward: outward into the world and for the world.

The church is never self-centred, but always world-oriented. Survival of the church is not the issue - God has already promised that the people of God in Christ by the Spirit will exist until the Dominion is fulfilled - the issue is mission. The reason for the church's existence is to be used by the Holy Spirit to communicate the Gospel in words and in actions for the salvation of the world. The church is the koinonia of Christ in mission

God called the church to be a partner people in the world. The partner people had their ups and downs. They were saints and sinners at the same time. Nevertheless, the Holy Spirit molded them into a CONTRAST SOCIETY, a community which reflected the gracious reign of God in a world of oppression and greed. Besides sharing their manna and eating together as Jews and Gentiles, here are some of the counterculture ways they followed:

1. Slaves and "free people" gathered as equals, all one in Christ. There were no hierarchies, no big deals and little deals. One person's talent or ability was not judged better than another's. Each believer used what was his or her gift or charisma for the building up of the whole body. This "living for the whole" was called LOVE (Rom 12.1-8, 1 Cor 12.14-31, 13.1-13, Gal 3.28, Gal 5.13-14, Col 3.12- 17).

2. Leadership was not a position of personal power or prestige. It was one of many servant gifts which were bestowed by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit did not consider social status or gender in the giving of this charisma. Therefore, men were leaders in some communities, and women were leaders in others (Rom 16.1-16, 1 Cor 12.1-13, Phil 4.2-3).

3. The followers of THE WAY sunned the immoral and hedonistic ways of the Empire. They refused to participate in events which were contrary to the Spirit and teaching of Jesus—events where violence was glorified, where slaves killed animals and other slaves for the entertainment of the masses. Christians also practiced simplicity and moderation in the midst of a society which found its joy at the local Roman shopping mall (Gal 5.16-26, 1 Cor 6.9-10, Rev 18.11- 14).

4. In a world which considered sickness to be the result of fate, bad luck, or punishment, the followers of Jesus continued his ministry of healing the sick, cleansing the lepers, and casting out demons. These wonderful works were signs of the reign of God, evidence that all the powers which hold humans in bondage have been defeated by the death and resurrection of Jesus (Jn 9.1-3, Acts 3.1-10, Jas 5.13- 15).

5. In a world which believed in revenge and the power of the sword, the believers refused to retaliate or defend themselves, even when threatened by death. Instead they loved their enemies as Jesus had taught them (Rom 12.14-21, 1 Pet 2.21-25, 3.9-12).

6. In a world of greed, the Christians gathered food for the hungry both inside and outside their fellowship. They did what they could to make the whole world a manna society.

7. In both Jewish and Gentile societies, where women had few rights and where the marriage covenant was easily broken, the followers of Jesus place high value on purity and faithfulness within the marriage relationship. The men remembered how Jesus had treated women—with dignity, respect, welcoming them as equal partners in the life of God's reign (Jn 4.1-42, Eph 4.21-33, 1 Pet 3.7).

8. In a world which believed in the strict separation of spirit and flesh, which considered spiritual things good and physical things evil, the believers celebrated GOD IN FLESH—in water, bread and wine, in all creation! (Jn 1.14, 1 Cor 11.23-27, Eph 1.23, 1 Tim 3.16)

9. In a Roman society which was cynical about death, the followers of Jesus celebrated the promise of resurrection. Their hope was in Christ who lives as the first fruit of all who sleep (1 Cor 15.1-58).

When the risen people failed to live as a contrast society, God raised up teachers and preachers to call them back (1 Cor 1.10—4.21, 11.17-24). The partner people returned and received power to begin again. They were renewed in their calling to live as God's people in a world of oppression and greed (Rom 12.1-2).

Christ reigns over His church through the word of God as revealed through the Holy Spirit. The churche are those obedient to God, such as should be saved.

The church has elder men as bishops and it has deacons. They must meet certain qualifications, given in the word of God, before these elder men can be such.

The church assembles together to edify one another, praise God, pray, sing, remember the Lord's giving of Himself for the church by partaking of the emblems He set aside to represent His body and blood. The church also studies the Bible together.

The church is responsible for one another, in physical needs as well as spiritual.

The church has no centralized government, but each congregation is autonomous ruled only by God's word through Jesus Christ.

[John the Baptist]

John here:

AGITATORS?? Lets hope so! (see 2 Peter 1:12)

In Acts 9:5 Christ talked to Saul (Paul) and said: "IT IS HARD FOR THEE TO KICK AGAINST THE PRICKS." Pricks from who??
Surely we do not want to stymy this do we? Grieve or Quench? Or censor out 'honest' questions?

Then in Gen. 6:3 we see The Word again saying, "And the Lord said, MY SPIRIT SHALL NOT ALWAYS [STRIVE} WITH MAN."

So in that mindset, (mine that is, of course your post was not insinuating that it was me that was doing the agitating, huh?)
Lets just use some more scripture with your posted ones?
Is that OK??

His Church?
The way it seems when reading this 'thread' (all of it)
is that most think that Christ has only a heavenly church group made up from planet earth? That He does not have a Virgin Denomination on earth & that the 'd'evil dose not have a Great Whore & her Daughter denominations on earth either?

So are we able to ask for scripture interpretation without being 'the bad boys' (agitators?) That is why I had asked if there were any sincere on this thread?

If John 10:16 is in fact BELIEVED, then there is a FOLD on earth that is VIRGIN in Doctrine! And the others mentioned?? Why leave these.. NOT OF THIS FOLD?

Eph. 4:5 is also an 'AGITATING' verse of Inspiration? It is not saying that we must have faith, is it. But CLEARLY that there [IS ONE FAITH]! And a 1 Peter 4:17's judgement first for these ones!

One more?? Well in the closing BOOK we (some) surely clearly see a message to the Master's 'sincere people'. They have a life eternal or a death eternal DECISION to make! Notice what makes the Verdict of one being Guilty & receiving of God's plagues? They are PARTAKERS of ALL of their SINS by just being in their membership them.

But the bottom line is to COME OUT AND GO WHERE?? A Mystical Zion?? This my friend is not the teaching of the Everlasting Gospel! And if one is 'sincere' (?) Christ has more than enough TRUTH to 'see' this! Otherwise, yes, I suspect that for starters at least, one would be called merely agitators? Starters?? See Matt. 10:25

---John    

[lightsavour]

 Agitators is just a simple expression to explain those who bring questions and comments to a topic that have no bearing. Questions that are not bound in Grace. Questions based in scriptures that are meant to unfocus those who are genuinely saved and desiring help from God. If these are the kind truthfully that all are aware of, then just simply acknowledge your inability to clarify scriptures to an unsaved soul. That we cannot teach the wisdom of God to someone who see's it as foolishness.

  For a person with genuine life will by the Spirit of God desire truth, rather than a thread to fall into misunderstandings and confusion.

 God Bless.
 

[John the Baptist]

[quote author=ollie

(removed)

Not sure, but you seem very angry, Why? I don't completely under stand your post. Standing up for God's truth and those that mock it in return are agitators. There are some of such in this forum. It was not addressed at you, but this thread reply has me wondering?      

******

John here:
OK, you asked twice that I should go back & read the thread?
Some of these are so small in print that it is hard to do so. And then there are some perhaps toooo long? (no offense intended)

I did catch some questions to you & some answers. From my end at least, it appears that if any dis/agree with your 'church' understanding, then they are either off thread, agitators, or as you say to me above? "That this thread reply has you wondering?"--"Or that I seem angry?"

And lets not forget the worst offence in this reply? You do not know me, at least to my knowledge?  NOTHING is known about my LOVE RELATIONSHIP with my Master? And vice/versa. A letter arives on the forum, perhaps two, three, a dozen?? And then you tell me that the 'thread reply has you wondering?'

And then you suggest that I sound angry? Wow, you are a mind reader even, & can see inside of ones heart to! In ALL HONESTY YOU [SOUND] *DANGEROUS TO ME!

I suggest that NO one can read minds, but One! And surely you are not trying to read ones motives, are you? God/Forbid!

Yet, with all of the letters behind this one by you that I was told to read, if they were ALL TRUE, that there is a true FOLD, Church, denomination, and that you are presenting it to others as directed by God??? Is that it? The bottom line??

Then if it is, I suggest that you STUDY EZE. 9 for THIS TRUE CHURCH ENDING! And Matt. 25:6 for its 'FOLLOWING CHRIST OUT OF IT' before the door of probation closes on these Virgin in doctrine ones (only) for good! verse 11-12 ibide. And 1 Peter 4:17? Naw, perhaps to deep for you?

That of course is IF your understanding was correct? And of course it is not. Unless you do not fall in the class of the Rev. 3:16-17 ones who your many 'posts' honestly sound like? Who say, that they 'have need of nothing'. (yet they ARE BLIND, *NAKED, WRETCHED, MISERABLE!-you know, angry.)

Now in closing this out. God through 'Inspiration' tells 'all of life' who it is that [ARE HIS!] I doubt that you even claim to keep the Commandments of God? But, yes, just perhaps you are not there yet?? By that, I mean that  you have been going on & on with 'some Gospel' and maybe that you are still in first gear with the reams & reams of postings?? (Yes, 'i' know... agitators) But there IS A MATT. 28:20!

But be that as it may? God tells us aLL who the saved will be! Rev. 12:17 ".. the Remnant of her (*CHRIST'S TRUE CHURCH)  seed, which [KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS]." And the others?? Read 1 John 2:4 & Isaiah 8:20, & God Himself will dispose of these false teaching ones as seen in Obadiah 16!!

---John  

[Ambassador4Christ]

[quote author=ollie

(removed)

Not sure, but you seem very angry, Why? I don't completely under stand your post. Standing up for God's truth and those that mock it in return are agitators. There are some of such in this forum. It was not addressed at you, but this thread reply has me wondering?      

******

John here:
OK, you asked twice that I should go back & read the thread?
Some of these are so small in print that it is hard to do so. And then there are some perhaps toooo long? (no offense intended)

I did catch some questions to you & some answers. From my end at least, it appears that if any dis/agree with your 'church' understanding, then they are either off thread, agitators, or as you say to me above? "That this thread reply has you wondering?"--"Or that I seem angry?"

And lets not forget the worst offence in this reply? You do not know me, at least to my knowledge?  NOTHING is known about my LOVE RELATIONSHIP with my Master? And vice/versa. A letter arives on the forum, perhaps two, three, a dozen?? And then you tell me that the 'thread reply has you wondering?'

And then you suggest that I sound angry? Wow, you are a mind reader even, & can see inside of ones heart to! In ALL HONESTY YOU [SOUND] *DANGEROUS TO ME!

I suggest that NO one can read minds, but One! And surely you are not trying to read ones motives, are you? God/Forbid!

Yet, with all of the letters behind this one by you that I was told to read, if they were ALL TRUE, that there is a true FOLD, Church, denomination, and that you are presenting it to others as directed by God??? Is that it? The bottom line??

Then if it is, I suggest that you STUDY EZE. 9 for THIS TRUE CHURCH ENDING! And Matt. 25:6 for its 'FOLLOWING CHRIST OUT OF IT' before the door of probation closes on these Virgin in doctrine ones (only) for good! verse 11-12 ibide. And 1 Peter 4:17? Naw, perhaps to deep for you?

That of course is IF your understanding was correct? And of course it is not. Unless you do not fall in the class of the Rev. 3:16-17 ones who your many 'posts' honestly sound like? Who say, that they 'have need of nothing'. (yet they ARE BLIND, *NAKED, WRETCHED, MISERABLE!-you know, angry.)

Now in closing this out. God through 'Inspiration' tells 'all of life' who it is that [ARE HIS!] I doubt that you even claim to keep the Commandments of God? But, yes, just perhaps you are not there yet?? By that, I mean that  you have been going on & on with 'some Gospel' and maybe that you are still in first gear with the reams & reams of postings?? (Yes, 'i' know... agitators) But there IS A MATT. 28:20!

But be that as it may? God tells us aLL who the saved will be! Rev. 12:17 ".. the Remnant of her (*CHRIST'S TRUE CHURCH)  seed, which [KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS]." And the others?? Read 1 John 2:4 & Isaiah 8:20, & God Himself will dispose of these false teaching ones as seen in Obadiah 16!!

---John  

Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-

[John the Baptist]

(removed)
I seemed to have lit some spark in you because of this. So I ask your forgiveness for whatever I may have done,and let us carry on the discussion of Christ's church as revealed in the Bible.

In the love of Christ,
Ollie

**********
Hi, John here:

You say:
" ... let us carry on the discussion of Christ's church as revealed in the bible"
Did you read Re. 12:17? Surely the verse is on the thread topic?

And the post after mine? With No reply from the Christian members to that one from here? Is it any wonder that I had asked the question of...  are there any sincere seekers here?

I read about a duck walking, quacking a while back?
Then I see rebukes to some who do not seem to need it, & then rebuke that is missing, from those who anyone can see needed it?

Surely the old saying has some truth in it that.. we are judged by the company that we keep?

But do get back to 'your' post as you desire.

Forum:
If there be any one who desires a work on 'The True Church & Peter being the Rock?' Drop me a line at the below site & just request it. It contains the needed scripture.

pastornb@cherco.net

---John

[ollie]

(removed)
I seemed to have lit some spark in you because of this. So I ask your forgiveness for whatever I may have done,and let us carry on the discussion of Christ's church as revealed in the Bible.

In the love of Christ,
Ollie

**********
Hi, John here:

You say:
" ... let us carry on the discussion of Christ's church as revealed in the bible"
Did you read Re. 12:17? Surely the verse is on the thread topic?

And the post after mine? With No reply from the Christian members to that one from here? Is it any wonder that I had asked the question of...  are there any sincere seekers here?

I read about a duck walking, quacking a while back?
Then I see rebukes to some who do not seem to need it, & then rebuke that is missing, from those who anyone can see needed it?

Surely the old saying has some truth in it that.. we are judged by the company that we keep?

But do get back to 'your' post as you desire.

Forum:
If there be any one who desires a work on 'The True Church & Peter being the Rock?' Drop me a line at the below site & just request it. It contains the needed scripture.

pastornb@cherco.net

---John

 Revelation 12:17.  And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You made mention of this verse. Wasn't sure if you had quoted it in your previous posts, so here it is.

Take car and have a good one.