asaph,
Here is a verse, for you;
Phil 1
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath
begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
I suppose, one would have decide, when God began, this work in you. In order to understand the rest of the scriptures that deal with this subject.
Perseverence of the Holy Spirit will accomplish it not perseverence of the flesh; this why the apostle was able to say;
Phil3
3 ..... we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
If
ALL are dead, condemned to eternal judgement by fire, and there is none that "hear nor understand" or "receive or know, the things of God" , and God "chooses to save some" how can someone say, it is because
I believed in Jesus.
There is no biblical basis for this thought or teaching, the scripture is clear;
This why Paul at Romans 9:15; recalls the Words of Moses, where God speaking says;
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.and again,
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even
for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that
I might show my power in thee, and
that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath
he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and
whom he will he hardeneth.
Those (unbelievers, ALL, which really includes everyone)who are "raised up", such as Pharaoh, are they able to believe anything by any
natural power or strength they possess.??
It is simple, and yet, so difficult to comprehend, and all because people are to smart for their own good; they try to reason, that;
yea, I was condemned to die as a sinner, but then, I believed myself, this was my part!
It sounds so naive..
If everyone is a corpse, on what basis, can they claim to hear anything, much less believe.
Jesus said;
Let the dead bury the deadListen,
All whom God sanctifies, He will Justify, in Christ JesusAnd the basis for this is His, Sovereignty (He chooses those who are ultimately saved), and the Love He has for His Son, it Has nothing to do with God looking forward in future time to determine what you will or won't do.
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.I do have a question concerning eternal security. If God is sovereign before salvation, why does He lose His sovereignty after salvation? For after we are truly saved, then should we sin, why does God no more have the sovereignty to rejects us outright? After all, He can do as He wishes and would be right in doing so, because sin separates us from God.
This question, says to me you haven't grasped the teaching of Gods sovereignty, and not doubt, for how could anyone understand what he doesn't want to, accept or believe.
It is precisely the Sovereignty of God, which brings those whom He separated (Sanctified) to fruition, in conforming them to the image of His dear Son.
So God would not be unjust in any case. So if one answers and says it's because God binds himself to His promise, then why not say He binds Himself to His promise to save such as call upon Him while they are yet sinners, without imposing a willing spirit upon a passive sinner
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:13-17)
Isasaih, said
Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed? (53:1)
One must hear the Words of God before he can believe God, and he must "believe HIM first" before, he can believe the Gospel, plain and simply., those whe reject Gods Word, perish because they do not believe His testimony, that He is the creator God.
Don't ask me how cavemen were saved?, or OT peoples, they are simply hypothetical questions to distract from the scriptures.
So why can't man have a free choice in the matter without some saying that this merits salvation? Do you follow my thinking?
This is the question, the answer to, has to be understood in the right context of what Gods word says, so, that the man of God will not appear to place more emphasis on mans role in Gods Plan and lessen the Sovereign role of God.
The only thing the natural man can believe and actually it is simply agreeing with is the truth.
And, what is the truth?? What God says:
That He is a sinner, and dead to God and the things of God, and there is nothing that he can do about his situation, and should he die in his sin, he will perish in eternal fire.
Only when man agrees with this(can it be said he
believes God) this, can the Gospel of deliverance from sin, be understood by him., and is understood because God the Spirit gives him understanding, contrast this with (1 Cor 2:14),
So, when mans faith is in the Word of God, only then will God the Father give this man to the Son, who will in no wise, cast him out,
And I give him eternal life and he will never perish., says Jesus.
Rom 4
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham
believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 11
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have
not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
So, you can see, the Gospel, is Gods, and because he draws men to Christ, none receive faith, lest they believe Him
first;
One must carefully read and consider Gods words to understanb this;
Listen carefully, this verse, doesn't say anything about man, possessing the faith necessary to please God, it simply states, that without "faith" man cannot please God;
however it does matter of factly state, men must
believe HimHeb 11
6 But
without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must
believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The problem as I see it, althought the Godpel is simple to understand, men lessen Gods importance in it, and magnify theirs., as thought they produce the
faith necessary to come to Jesus.
This explains why, many can be deceived into believeing, they are known of Him, because they know something about Him, and why there are so many different teachings which don't square up with scripture.
The verse you have given, makes the point perfectly,
John 6
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Hearing Gods, word produces
Faith, and it cannot be produced in the hearer, if one does not
believe Him.I am having a hard time believing that I was totally passive concerning my will to believe.
Any one who seeks the truth of Gods Word is not passive, I am afraid you focus on the wrong thing, when making this satetement.
It is God's word that motivates the passive hears, and, this is why the scriptures state;
He works to draw men to Himself.
In order to give the Gospel, we need to understand it..
Blessings,
Petro