The restrainer is the Holy Spirit.

[twobombs]

Birth pangs

Jer 49:23  Concerning Damascus. Hamath is confounded, and Arpad: for they have heard evil tidings: they are fainthearted; [there is] sorrow on the sea; it cannot be quiet.

Luk 21:25  And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

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Jer 49:24  Damascus is waxed feeble, [and] turneth herself to flee, and fear hath seized on [her]: anguish and sorrows have taken her, as a woman in travail.

Jer 50:43  The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, [and] pangs as of a woman in travail.

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Birth pangs used as a sign of the removal of the restrainer ?

Jhn 16:21  A woman when she is in travail hath sorrow, because her hour is come: but as soon as she is delivered of the child, she remembereth no more the anguish, for joy that a man is born into the world.
John 16:21 talks about a woman in travail as a parable for the resurrection & ascention of Christ and the coming of the HG into this world at the the day of pentecost.
Yet this parable is also used in these days as in :
Mat 24:8  All these [are] the beginning of sorrows. ( or pangs)

The birth pang deals with a major shift in the spiritual realm that also has major reflections into the physical world, insomuch that the non-believer experiences what's written in Luke 21:25
Luk 21:25b  [...] and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
2Th 2:7  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:
only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.

1Tes5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
When you compare 1Tes5:3 with the as-a-woman-in-travail in Jer 50:43 & Jer 49:23 one could conclude that the destruction is brought by a destroyer, whilst talking about peace-and-safety:

Dan 8:25   And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify [himself] in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many:  [...]
Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen,
and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

I would like to point out that when Daniel 11:40/45 speaks about the current tour that GWB is doing, that Dan 12:1 is a followup of these events, and it is widely understood that Dan12:1 marks the start of the 70th week of Daniel, that after the fullfillment of Dan 11:44/45 the 70th week of Daniel will start. (!) The 70th week is widely known for the apperance of the 'so-called man-of-sin' making a peace treaty with the Israelites, and corfirming it for half the week (1260 days)

But as Dan 12:1 speaks also a time when:
Dan 12:1  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time:
and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The last portion talks again about "thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book" (of life) That portion links directly to 1 Tes5:3 : "then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

So who will escape ? ALL THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THE BOOK

[asaph]

Asaph, don't let the name fool you, I am a girl Drake is the name of my dog.
I am pre-wrath also, there doesn't seem to be a lot of us around or I have been going to the wrong places

Oops, sorry Drake
Pre-wrath seems to make the most sense scripturally. I have read several books supporting the pwr and have checked a few websites as well. The bible does seem to support this view.

asaph

[uzzia]

asaph

I consider myself post-trib; meaning I believe the rapture will occur at the 7th (ie. last) trumpet. This is, of course before the 7 vials are poured (ie. God's wrath)---so I guess that is sort of pre-wrath. My scripture references would be Matthew 24, 1 Corinthians 15, 1 Thessalonians 4, Revelation 11 and 14.


I am just wondering in your pre-wrath thinking where the rapture occurs. I guess I really don't understand the pre-wrath position since we may have the same views with different names. I do believe we are not subject to God's wrath.

uzzia

[twobombs]

Pre Trib is like firing all your good personel just before you enter the hard days where there is a lot of work to do.

Post wrath is letting al the good personel burn up after they did a good thing unto you.

Post Trib, pre wrath is like leaving a sinking ship after some very good effords to get some people into the gosple.

So without some big theological high-and-dry mish-mash I am able to explain this in biblical laymen terms.....  
What do you think that means...? I think that means i'm on the right track here.

Anyone want to hear my theological build-up for this, just scroll three posts higher i'll be happy to edify it ....

[asaph]

asaph

I consider myself post-trib; meaning I believe the rapture will occur at the 7th (ie. last) trumpet. This is, of course before the 7 vials are poured (ie. God's wrath)---so I guess that is sort of pre-wrath. My scripture references would be Matthew 24, 1 Corinthians 15, 1 Thessalonians 4, Revelation 11 and 14.


I am just wondering in your pre-wrath thinking where the rapture occurs. I guess I really don't understand the pre-wrath position since we may have the same views with different names. I do believe we are not subject to God's wrath.

uzzia

uzzia,
Here are some charts telling the pre wrath position:
http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0019.html

Correct me if I am wrong but post and pre-wrath agree on three main points.
1 We hold to the Church's exemption from the eschatological wrath of God.
2 We both believe the Seventieth Week of Daniel will evidence both the wrath of God and the wrath of Antichrist.
3 We also agree that the eschatological Day of the Lord and "the great tribulation" do not cover the same time period during the second half of Daniel's Seventieth Week, but the "day of God's wrath" follows the time of Antichrist's tribulation.
The pre wrath view teaches that the rapture takes place sometime after mid week when the tribulation by anti christ will be cut short after the 6th seal is opened but before the first trumpet is blown. There is no date setting in this view, but there is a loose time frame.
I recommend you read the article Legs to stand onat this link:
http://www.solagroup.org/articles/endtimes/et_0004.html

asaph

[John the Baptist]

Hi, John here:
Try using God's complete  WORD. (2 Tim. 3:16)
If you can have real 'BELIEF' in Christs Word? (remember, it was He who asked that when He comes the SECOND time, If He would find Faith of earth? Belief!)

It was the Holy Spirit that INSPIRED these two verses found in Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 of the Master's Word! If one REALLY BELIEVES IN JESUS these two verses will clear up much of misunderstanding of promises alone. (for starters)

Just remember that the 'very few' times that these verses do  not apply, we are TOLD. (sin will not arise a DECOND time, sunshine on the just & unjust alike, & the Rainbow in the sky! No repeated history on these)

Check the creation week & the 7th. day Sabbath with 1000 yrs. a day? Earth with a 1000 yr. Sabbath? What was earth like before creation? Read Gen. of nothingless, & void. Then check Jer. 4:23-27? ("I beheld the earth ...")

And verse 27? 'Yet will I not make a full end.'?? Where are the saved in the FIRST RESURECTION? And the dead are ALL DEAD during this 1000 year period of time. (see 2 Peter 3:10-12's DAY OF THE LORD) ALL THE WICKED ARE D-E-A-D! And 's'atan & his henchmen? They are once again, the 'second time', chained by the history repeated REQUIRED TRUTH set of circumstances of God!

Who was occupying earth before creation? (before man was here) Who will be here during the 1000 yrs. that is in BETWEEN the First & the Second resurection? Yes, the earth's Sabbath.

And the Church? So went Israel of old, so goes the 'professed' believers of today. God SAID SO! (the Eccl. verses. If one is a true believer, huh? (see 1 Jn. 4:6)

This below is part of your quote:

"Correct me if I am wrong ..."   (zapped for the bottom line)

--John