"The Passion"

[foreknown]

Please check out this link and read the article. Come back for comments.

http://www.lazarusunbound.com/bunk_thepassion.html

In Christ,

Alex

[aw]

Alex,
No one I know of is setting the movie up as an object of "WORSHIP." Anything that can be used to reveal in a fuller way the actual suffering of the Christ on behalf of mankind can lead to God being glorified.

Will some people actually be saved as a result of the movie? I think so and perhaps an entire revival will be sparked. Will anyone lose salvation because of it? I doubt it seriously.

If only one is saved, it is worth it.

aw

[ebia]

Please check out this link and read the article. Come back for comments.

http://www.lazarusunbound.com/bunk_thepassion.html

In Christ,

Alex

People probably said much the same garbage to Mark when he first wrote down Peter's account of what happend.

[ollie]

Blessed is he that believes without seeing.

The word of God is what calls people to God through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Images were not in God's given method to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ to the world. It is His word, spoken or written.

 Matthew 28:19.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
 20.  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 Mark 16:15.  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
 16.  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
 17.  And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
 18.  They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
 19.  So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
 20.  And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Luke 24:46.  And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
 47.  And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

 1 Corinthians 14:37.  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.



 Exodus 20:4.  Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Pictures are not graven images. They are likenesses, however.


Christ said all the law and prophets hang on two commandments:

Matthew 22:35.  Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
 36.  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
 37.  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
 38.  This is the first and great commandment.
 39.  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 40.  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

If one fulfills these two will the others be fullfilled in the fullfillment of the two?

[Heidi]

The bible talks about there being many false teachers and i expect because of this movie, they will come out of the woodwork. The best thing we can do is stand firm and stick to the scriptures.

[Gracey]

I guess I would have to say, I agree....no "idols" or "graven images", but I'm not sure about a picture. Nobody is worshiping the picture or image of christ....everybody knows it isn't him.

What was the purpose of the movie? I haven't seen it, but it isn't about the picture (or image) of Christ or even about what he (or his life) was like, it's about the "act" of Christ.

How would God consider this? As a witness tool? Or as a foolish endeavour?

Gracey

[Early57]

When I opened the site you gave.

Boom there it was blasting the whole kit and Kaboddle.  

Bunker is calling people Stupid.  

He is not a lover of Mankind like God told him to be, but a clangling noisy gong.

I do not like noise

INMYOPINION his writings are not worth reading.

Early57

[foreknown]

When I opened the site you gave.

Boom there it was blasting the whole kit and Kaboddle.  

Bunker is calling people Stupid.  

He is not a lover of Mankind like God told him to be, but a clangling noisy gong.

I do not like noise

INMYOPINION his writings are not worth reading.

Early57

I always find it funny when people can form an opinion about something they have never read or have any knowledge of whatsoever. Since you won't read Michael Bunker's article then maybe you will take the time to read this next article from someone that doesn't have a sense of humor regarding their article titles.

http://www.watch-unto-prayer.org/passion.html

You really should spend some time reading some of his articles or better yet check him out on sermoncast.net. But if you can't take the time to read an article you probably can't sit through a sermon either.

In Christ,

Alex

[Tog_Neve]

The second article was much more informative than the first one.....

BTW did you go read the excerpt from the Guardian about the RCC re-writing the Bible?!!

[foreknown]

I don't believe I've read that particular article but I have read a little about that. It made me sick to my stomach personally. But even though the KJV has been proven time and time again that it is easy enough to read for a 4th or 5th grader everyone feels they need a newer version.

Funny stuff. The second article was very informative. The writer decided to cut it short because there were these other articles.

Thanks for reading it by the way.

Alex

[MalkyEL]

 "The Passion of The Christ" finally opened after several months and weeks of activity, increasing in intensity with countless interviews and TV specials as opening day approached.  It was a well promoted and planned out release - some even saying that no movie ever, was given this kind of "press".
        Mel Gibson succeeded in convincing a large segment of the Christian Community to endorse his production claiming Scriptural accuracy, yet openly and without hesitation affirming that the movie would have Catholic overtones [to put it mildly].  Previews of the movie to pastors and church leaders all over America sealed the deal by declaring that the movie was and is just as Mr. Gibson had claimed.
        On opening day [February 25, 2004 - Ash Wednesday] I made my way in the theater to watch and take notes.  I was not unprepared for what I was about to see.  I had spent the week before studying and researching - going over his interviews and doing some background work with the help of some good friends.  As I entered the theater, it was so dark I had trouble finding a seat and I wondered why the house lights were turned down.  After a few minutes, much to my surprise, "The Passion" quite suddenly began without warning.  There were no trailers, no ads, no previews of upcoming attractions.  Very unusual.  Perhaps planned?
        As the movie began cranking out it's agenda, it became increasingly clear that "Scriptural accuracy" must have a plethora of definitions, depending on your perspective. Obviously, Mr. Gibson's definition was different from Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and a number of OT prophets, but I continued to watch as the story unfolded into the most violent, gory, macabre, horror flick I have ever seen.  Although I have seen more "slice and dice" in other movies, this was a new "high" in brutality, because it altered the suffering and death of The Messiah to an incredible depth of inaccuracy and heresy that left me completely horrified.  I was not stunned by the amount of blood in the movie.  I was prepared for the gore up to a certain point - but it was a relentless pursuit of gruesome scenes, one after another, eliciting sobbing from several people around me and stunned silence from others [is this the gospel of Jesus?].  I was partially prepared for the Catholic perspective, but I was not prepared at the lengths to which the movie "re-created" the awesome story of God's redeeming atonement through His One and Only Son, Jesus Christ.
        As I walked outside in the sun, it hit me how oppressive the movie was.  It was done in almost total darkness.  Every scene with the disciples was done in candlelight - including the flashbacks of Scripture as spoken by Jesus to them.  Part of the problem was not the use of Scripture - but the context in which it was presented - in reality, most of it was not spoken in "secret" to His followers, but in the light of day to the masses of people who surrounded Jesus in His ministry.  
John 1:4    In Him [Jesus] was life, and the life was the light of men;
5 ¶ and the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it.
6 There was a man sent from God; his name was John.
7 He came for a witness, that he might witness concerning the Light, that all might believe through Him.
8 He was not that Light, but that he might witness concerning the Light.
9 He was the true Light; He enlightens every man coming into the world.

          It was very disconcerting to hear God's Word misused and misapplied - and for this, the movie is billed as "Scriptural" by mainstream Christian Leaders.  There was so much speculation, imagery, added innuendo, and outright fabrication of God's Word presented in the movie that I wonder what is being advocated and preached from pulpits if this movie is perceived as "gospel truth".
        My deep concern that this venue is the latest trend in proclamating the Gospel, has impelled and encouraged me to speak out.  I cannot remain either passive or silent.  As a good friend once said to me:  "I am not here to slander anyone.  I am the watchman on the wall.  If I see what appears to be an enemy . . . and feel that I know the intent . . . and do nothing . . . then the blood is on my hands.  I have too much heart for that and love people too much to allow that to happen.  I may take criticism, but so did the One that I serve under . . . The Mighty Lion of Judah . . . Prove all things to yourself . . . Faith is built upon sound belief through Scriptural knowledge.  His Word is like pure silver forged in the fire SEVEN times, and it does not come back void."
              If you read nothing else about "The Passion",  please read this article:  *** http://www.SeekGod.ca/gibson.htm ***   It is the most thorough, documented, and Scripturally supported article on the movie that I have read. The article explores many of the underlying themes and Biblical inaccuracies presented in the movie with excellently done research and perspective from a number of impeccable resources.  My prayer as you read this information and the following articles, that you do so with an open heart, allowing the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into all truth.
        In the Love and Grace of Jesus - our Messiah, God, and King
        Nancy L. Oppenhuizen

[cont . . .]

[MalkyEL]

[cont . . . ]

Posted on a Yahoo groups forum I am a member of:

After viewing the "Passion" on a number of occasions, I have arrived at
the following conclusions:

1. That if something that is touted as an evangelical tool is not true to
the Word of God, then it really isn't, as it will only tend to confuse many
with a false Gospel and a false Messiah.

2. Biblical and historical accuracy is really important in any film, book, or
teaching tool associated with The Kingdom.

3. Brutal, graphic, continuous visual assaults on The Messiah are what
satanists would enjoy, not believers, and a movie that portrays Him as
weak is blasphemy, pure and simple. He was not some shaking
cowering weakling [flogging scene], He did not need man's
encouragement [Simon] or His mother to do this, and those who portray
Him as such, will someday understand His strength when He returns
as **** The Lion of Judah ****

4. Nailing Him to the cross over and over as the focus of His ministry,
is exposing Him to open shame repeatedly.

5. Christians will not only go to see anything remotely scriptural, but
will endorse it, even if unseen, with a zealous fervor.

I have been reading the reviews of the so called "blinded" world, and it
appears that their discernment on this one is greater than that of the
glassy eyed "believers" that are proclaiming this film as "great."

This article says it all:

*****   http://www.SeekGod.ca/gibson.htm

=================================================

http://www.nypost.com/seven/02192004/news/regionalnews/18338.htm

'JESUS' NAIL SALE
By WILLIAM NEUMAN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
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February 19, 2004 -- Replicas of the nails used to hang Jesus on the cross have become the red-hot official merchandise linked to Mel Gibson's controversial new movie, "The Passion of the Christ."
Pendants made from the pewter, 2 1/2-inch nails - selling for $16.99 - all but flew out of the Christian Publications Bookstore on West 43rd Street as soon as they were put on display.

Hundreds of stores across the country will be selling licensed items tied to the movie, a graphically violent depiction of the last 12 hours of Christ's life, which opens next week on Ash Wednesday.

The souvenirs include a book, pins, key chains, coffee mugs and T-shirts.

But the most unusual collectibles are the nails, each of which hangs on a leather cord.

Its side bears the inscription "Isaiah 53:5," referring to a Bible verse that begins, "He was pierced for our transgressions . . ."

The Family Christian Store in Newark, Del., received a large shipment of merchandise to sell at a preview screening of the film on Monday.

 

"The response so far has been overwhelming . . . They want to buy this product," the store's manager, Tina Weldon, said of the nail pendants.

"It's very symbolic for a lot of people."

A California company is manufacturing the pendants and other merchandise under a licensing agreement with Gibson. Neither Gibson nor the manufacturer returned calls yesterday.

"The cross has become such a benign jewelry item . . . The shock of its original form . . . is lost to modern people," said Charles Houser, publications manager at the American Bible Society's Nida Institute for Biblical Scholarship.

"Choosing the detail of the spike would be to reinvigorate the image. They're really trying to capture that this was that day's form of execution."

But the Rev. Forrest Church, of All Souls Unitarian Church on the Upper East Side, called the pendants "macabre."

"I expect the prominence of the nail reflects the prominence of the gore in the movie itself," he said.

"That becomes the icon for identification."

The film itself has sparked controversy, too. Jewish leaders fear it could foster anti-Semitism, but Gibson says the film is not anti-Jewish.

======================================


Christians review "The Passion"

http://acts413.org/passion.htm

[cont . . .]

[MalkyEL]

[cont . . .]

2 AOL Reviews:

1)    The Passion of the Christ
 
Reviewed by Owen Gleiberman

 

   
HIS CROSS TO BEAR Caveziel's Jesus on the road to Golgotha
 
 
 
In Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ, Jesus gets hauled into an open courtyard and whipped by Roman soldiers who carry on their task with a laughing gusto that goes, to put it mildly, beyond the call of duty.

The flagellating weapons, some made of cane, some of leather tipped with metal, don't just leave the usual red streaks. They tear through Christ's skin -- tear it wide open -- so that his entire body, front and back, limb and torso, becomes latticed with bloody crevices, reduced to a raw and ghastly crisscross of quivering pulped flesh.

Whippings, with their ritualized sado-theatrical solemnity, have always held a special place in the cinema of cruelty. Marlon Brando, working as both director and star, sanctioned himself a doozy of a flogging in ''One-Eyed Jacks,'' and Denzel Washington may well have become a star during the moment in ''Glory'' where he stood, with stoic resolve (and a single tear), to receive the lash.

Jim Caviezel, who plays Jesus in ''The Passion of the Christ,'' doesn't possess the dynamism of those actors, but he has an eloquent, spindly body and a gauntly ascetic profile -- he resembles a hollowed-out Frank Zappa -- which he uses to transform himself into a dripping scarecrow of agony.

As Jesus hauls the cross toward Golgotha, his flayed body collapsing, over and over, like a pile of bloody rags, the look on Caviezel's face, his right eye swollen shut from beatings, his teeth bared, expresses a hypnotized knowledge of agony: This is the surreal lower depth of what men can do, and -- even more -- of what a man can feel.

Before I say anything else, let me state that I was held by the hushed, voyeuristic brutality of ''The Passion of the Christ.'' Tempting as it may be to dismiss Mel Gibson as a glorified pain freak, dressing up a martyrdom fantasy in Aramaic and Latin, it would be more accurate, I think, to say that the filmmaker, a Catholic fundamentalist, presents his torture-racked vision of Jesus' last 12 hours on earth as a sacred form of shock therapy.

He wants to get at the scary, heightened, present-tense fever of Jesus' suffering, at the link between pain and what lies on the other side of pain -- between horror and awe. At the moment of Christ's greatest (apparent) torment, when he is on the cross and the spike is driven into his feet, he speaks words that powerfully affirm his faith, and there's a gruesome design to the way that Gibson, using a haunting low-angle shot, consecrates Christ's agony, making it bold, extreme -- newfound.

Pondering the victim of an accident, or anyone else who has endured a terrible physical ordeal, we may think, ''There but for the grace of God go I.'' Watching Jesus suffer graphically in ''The Passion of the Christ,'' we're asked to feel, ''There is the grace of God.''

Then again, isn't there more, so much more, to Jesus' spirit than the bloody endurance of his wounds? His love was radical too -- not just for God but for each and every man. ''The Passion of the Christ'' comes close to being a splatter film in which the victim embraces his own dismemberment.

When Jesus is hauled before Caiaphas (Mattia Sbragia) and the Jewish priests, it would be overstating the case to call their resentful glower inflammatory; rather, it has the cardboard menace of gladiator-movie villainy. That Gibson then attempts to ''humanize'' Pontius Pilate (Hristo Naumov Shopov), portraying him as an addled pragmatist who agrees to crucify Jesus as a form of mob control, is surely an act of perversity, a way of making the Jews look far worse.

The ironic result, however, is that Gibson actually nails himself in the foot: He gives the priests no organic reason to want to see Jesus dead -- no reason, that is, apart from petty intolerance. He thus denies us the chance to experience what Martin Scorsese captured so memorably in ''The Last Temptation of Christ'': that Jesus' gospel of endless love, of sacrifice before all, really was incendiary.

In its holy vision of hell on earth, ''The Passion of the Christ'' pays token reverence to the notion that Jesus saw heaven on earth as well. The movie is blood-soaked pop theology for a doom-laden time, its effect that of a gripping yet reductive paradox: It lifts us downward. B

 [cont . . . ]

[MalkyEL]

[cont . . .]

2)     The Passion of the Christ
 
Reviewed by Lisa Schwarzbaum

 
Ecce homo. According to gospel, that's what Pontius Pilate told the rebellious crowd demanding crucifixion, as he displayed a scourged Jesus in his humiliating crown of thorns: Behold the man. And now it's Mel Gibson's turn.

Ecce Mel, the man who made ''The Passion of the Christ'' all but proclaims in his gaudily tormented, pornographically blood-drenched, anything but literal interpretation of the last 12 hours of Jesus' life: Behold the movie star, laying everything on the line -- bankability, reputation, most personal of religious beliefs -- like a Crusader among infidels. Yet the Traditionalist Catholic filmmaker only appears to be preaching a stern sermon to a crowd of modern moviegoing sinners in need of a dose of shock and awe. In reality, he is talking to himself alone, a mutter of confession without absolution.

Gibson's personal and idiosyncratic passion play arrives preceded by trumpets of promotional buildup and cymbal clashes of controversy over concerns that some might use the movie -- as the Gospels themselves have historically been used -- as a defense of anti-Semitism. Yet what's most striking about the work itself is the weirdly trancelike, stubborn inwardness with which Gibson pursues his spiritual and temporal obsessions.

With the curious eyes of the world eager, of course, to see what the practical joker who not so long ago waxed a leg in ''What Women Want'' has to say about his Lord, Gibson has made a movie for nobody, really, but Gibson.

And knowing this might just be key to understanding the movie's embellished scripture. Jim Caviezel enacts Jesus' agonies with pleading eyes and blood-reddened teeth, and many attractive, dark-haired players pray, mock, weep, or condemn in the familiar roles of Mary, Mary Magdalene, Peter, Judas, Herod, Pilate, etc.

But verily, ''The Passion of the Christ'' is Gibson's obsessive meditation on his own cross of fame. It's a weave of Gospel versions, narrative add-ons (including a slinking, androgynous devil and a gentle, primed-to-convert wife for Pilate who disagrees with her husband's weak, hand-washing ways), and the age-old Gibsonian homoerotic fascination with the sight of a handsome male body undergoing torture.

It's a drama in which the physical suffering of Jesus is made more riveting and ''lifelike'' than the exemplary, loving character and holy aura of Jesus himself. It's a baroque lesson in Christ-like patience that demands we watch lingering scenes of skin splitting and blood coursing as Jesus is lashed with canes, then flayed with barbaric weapons of torture, then turned over and flogged some more. (The Gospels give the activity a few sentences; ''The Passion'' makes the punishment its own fetish plotline.)

By such reasoning, Gibson wasn't more sensitive to concerns that his movie might reignite the ugly old ''theological'' basis for anti-Semitism (the canard that goes: Jews killed Jesus and are thus cursed for the rest of eternity as a collective people) because he simply didn't turn to face the congregation and hear those fears, so enthralled was he by the sight of Jesus' blood. (The Romans who mutilate and finally crucify Jesus come off bad but show signs of remorse in the end; there's no doubt that the implacable Jewish Pharisees who demand death come off worse.)

And it's clear, too, why Gibson doesn't treat the depiction of Jesus' suffering with more seemliness (not to mention empathy for those ticket-buying Christians who might bring children to the meeting tent, only to have those kids traumatized by something they shouldn't need to see to be good Christians): because his eyes are riveted by the ecstasy of pain.

''The Passion of the Christ'' is far from heaven. As a call to faith it's grim and numbing, an incitement to revenge rather than an inspiration to lead a godly life by loving one's neighbor, whatever that neighbor's god. And as a filmed work of art it's distancing rather than welcoming. This ''Passion'' is a work of penance that has no heart for its audience, not even for a Christian flock looking for a prophet like Mel Gibson to deliver them from Hollywood's evils. C
 
(Posted:02/25/04)

[end]

[Allinall]

Behold, my servant shall act wisely;
   he shall be high and lifted up,
   and shall be exalted.
As many were astonished at you--
   his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
   and his form beyond that of the children of mankind--
so shall he sprinkle many nations;
   kings shall shut their mouths because of him;
for that which has not been told them they see,
   and that which they have not heard they understand.
Who has believed what they heard from us?
   And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
For he grew up before him like a young plant,
   and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
   and no beauty that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men;
   a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief;
and as one from whom men hide their faces
   he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Surely he has borne our griefs
   and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
   smitten by God, and afflicted.
But he was wounded for our transgressions;
   he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
   and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep have gone astray;
   we have turned every one to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
   the iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
   yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
   and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
   so he opened not his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
   and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
   stricken for the transgression of my people?
And they made his grave with the wicked
   and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
   and there was no deceit in his mouth.
Yet it was the will of the LORD to crush him;
   he has put him to grief;
when his soul makes an offering for sin,
   he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
   make many to be accounted righteous,
   and he shall bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,
   and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,
because he poured out his soul to death
   and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
   and makes intercession for the transgressors.


Isaiah 52:13-53:12

It amazes me at times how issue oriented we can be.  Everyone has some form of agenda that we must oppose.  Gibson is a Catholic, therefore we must disagree with his tainted portrayal of Christ's death.  It was simply too gory.  When I read the above passage, it strikes me as not being nearly gory enough.  I have yet to see the movie, and plan on doing so this week.  Yet I know that it is a movie, and anything man-made will be lacking.  I am not going to verify the veracity of the movie with scripture.  I do not need to, as scripture is truth.  This, is a movie.  I am going to get a realistic feel for what my Saviour endured for me.  Is it complete?  No.  It is weak, it is lacking in the violence, the bloodshed, and the abuse that scripture proclaims.  

Why am I being so ardent with this?  Because we as believers spend so much time looking for reasons to split.  And here, over the matter of our Lord and Savior, because of a movie, we are spreading discord galore.  Did Jesus die for a movie?  NO.  So why, why must we continuely begrudge the liberty of our brothers and sisters in Christ, and seek to divide what Christ made whole?

I speak to your shame.  If you have problems with a movie, great.  I respect your convictions.  But don't drag down your brethren, who have been strengthened by this movie.  Strengthened?  Yes.  As a result of this movie I know of 12 people who were saved, even confessed Christ openly in the theatre because someone gave a clear gospel presentation after the movie.  That guy wouldn't have done so if this movie wasn't playing there.  Those people wouldn't have heard that message had they not been there.  Strengthened.  Don't weaken God's working by your conviction.