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Author Topic: Mark 16:9  (Read 1679 times)
rstrats
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« on: December 29, 2011, 08:26:29 PM »

A poster on another board, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV and similar versions have it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, it has generally been my experience that  first day proponents many times use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change of observance from the seventh day to the first day, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, frequently quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.” - I have not yet been able to come up with one.  Does anyone here know of one?
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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2011, 08:46:05 PM »

Joh 20:18  Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Joh 20:19  Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Act 20:7  And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Hello rstrats,

Before I go any further in answering your question I have a question for you, when do you worship God?
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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
rstrats
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« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2011, 08:57:45 PM »

Soldier4Christ,

re: “Before I go any further in answering your question I have a question for you, when do you worship God?”

 I don’t see why that information is necessary in order to identify a published author.  I wonder if you might explain?
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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2011, 09:06:00 PM »

It has everything to do with it as you will see when I give my answer.
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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
rstrats
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« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2011, 10:02:44 PM »


Soldier4Christ,

re: “It has everything to do with it as you will see when I give my answer.”


I’m afraid I’m not into playing games.  Perhaps someone else will know of an author.
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TreeBug
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« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2012, 10:19:29 AM »

Interesting. I've wondered about Saturday verses Sunday occasionally. Not so much as to cause any consternation in my heart, more curiosity than anything. ( To answer Soldier4Christ: the official day of worship I was raised with is Sunday; the 1st day of the Hebrew calendar week.) I would really be interested in hearing Soldier4Christ's answer. (you left me hanging dear friend)

It's disconcerting that anyone would want to find a published author to strengthen an opinion; and that's not to say that any and all outside of the Bible study should be avoided. God is, after all, everywhere.  Smiley Until I got serious about my Bible, I didn't know diddly about the Hebrew calendar. My days, weeks, months and years go according to the calendar that we all go by; and on that one the 7th day of the week is Sunday. Therefore we go to church and worship on Sunday and 'everybody else' who worshiped on Saturday....well they were just wrong. (and in my family you just didn't DO that, for goodness sake!) I never questioned it growing up.
Now of course, I know a little about the Hebrew calendar and the 'why's' of it. (and here also the acknowledgement that the Hebrew calendar has changed much, necessarily) After all God hung the sun and the moon to light the earth and distinguish the days, seasons. The Hebrew calendar is lunar based and the sun/moon doesn't rise/set on man's time.  I respect the Hebrew calendar though I don't keep it, but my not keeping to it hasn't condemned me. Calendars are good for ordering our days with respect to the world and that's all they are simply said.

Now getting out of all the scientific stuff which just tangles up the old thought processes; what does it matter whether we worship on the 7th day or the 1st, when we are to praise and worship our Father all the time? We are all of the same Body, same Vine, even if we have differences of simple opinions. Should we allow the day we use for fellowship and study, though it may be different, cause strife? I firmly believe in 'keeping the Sabbath day Holy' and I do my best to do that on Sunday. Were I raised that the Sabbath was Saturday, then I'd do it then. Aren't we all taught that the Sabbath was made for man and not the other way around? Where can true Love between brethren be where such arguments abound? OH! And I'm thinking about the book of James, too ~ the whole book is wonderful teachings, but I'll jump specifically to chapter 4 verse 17. (I was thinking of Paul's teachings, still am)

Ok. Stuck my own nose in and dished a few cents worth. I still want to know what you would say Soldier4Christ, in the interest of learning more and being corrected if I'm looking at this wrong. Everyday is a good day to learn something new, see something I didn't before, get closer to Jesus and understand more clearly! And I mean THAT all the way to the moon and back!  Smiley
(and my apologies that I don't know a specific author to rstrats)

Love in Christ!
Teresa
« Last Edit: January 02, 2012, 10:23:09 AM by TreeBug » Logged
Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 08:47:23 AM »

Good Morning Teresa,

The Best Book to answer this question is the Bible and The Best Author is God. You did quite well in touching on what scripture has to say on this subject. If we look closely into scripture we will see that the Apostles came together on the first day of the week as well as other days in worship of our Lord.

Due to other commitments I have this morning I can't go in depth on this right now but I would like to give a few quick things for thought:

Jesus said that we are to worship in spirit and truth. Jesus also said that all days belong to Him not just one day a week.

There is much more that scripture gives on this subject and I would love to continue on with more but I must be on my way out of here for now.

May God bless you and yours,
Roger
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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
nChrist
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« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 04:31:06 PM »

The Mark 16:9 question is typically a "gotcha" question used by militant atheists to show contradiction in the Holy Bible. This is why Soldier4Christ had questions.

We aren't Jews under the Laws of Moses so it's a moot issue. Jesus Christ is our rest every day. Those who think that they keep the Sabbath according to the Law don't know what all is involved and they fall far short.

Colossians 2:13-17 (KJV)  13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;   14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;   15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:   17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
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Didymus
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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2012, 02:29:42 AM »

The Mark 16:9 question is typically a "gotcha" question used by militant atheists to show contradiction in the Holy Bible. This is why Soldier4Christ had questions.

We aren't Jews under the Laws of Moses so it's a moot issue. Jesus Christ is our rest every day. Those who think that they keep the Sabbath according to the Law don't know what all is involved and they fall far short.

Colossians 2:13-17 (KJV)  13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;   14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;   15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.    16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:   17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.


Excelent point. Everytime people get caught on the Saturday Sabbath question, they don't realize that it was a shadow of our true rest, Jesus Christ. I feel that since Jesus finished the work (just as God did in creation) required for us to be saved, it is entirely proprer to worship Him on the first day of the week (the day He was raised form the dead), commemorating the spiritual rest He has provided for us. I often use the Colossians verses to point people to the reality that the "shadows" of the Old Testament pointed to.
God bless, friends.

               Didymus Grin
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 02:32:12 AM by Didymus » Logged
Didymus
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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2012, 03:02:56 AM »

I would also like to point out something interesting, something that is not found in any bible translation except Young's Literal Translation. If we look at the endings of each gospel account, it speaks of another Sabbath rest. Please read these verses:

Matthew 28:1 "And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the magdalene...."
Mark 16:1-2 "And the sabbath having passed, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James and Salome, brought spices, that having
come, they may annoint Him, and early in the morning of the first fo the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre...."
Mark 16:9 "And He, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene...."
Luke 24:1 "And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices...."
John 20:1 "And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the magdalene doth come early...."
John 20:19 "It being, therefore, evening on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having being shut where the disciples
were assmebled, through fear of the Jews...."

It seems strange to me that all English bible translations translate the phrase "the first of the sabbaths" as first day of the week. And when
we look especially at John 20:19, it seems to be saying that the old sabbath has passed and the new Sabbath (Sunday) is now to be honored
because Jesus is our Sabbath rest and rose from the dead on that day.
I am not a greek scholar, so maybe I'm missing something. I would be interested to hear the input form others here. What think ye???
God bless, friends.

BTW, you can look up an online version of Young's translation to check this out.

                 Didymus
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 03:06:29 AM by Didymus » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2012, 05:24:06 AM »

Thanks for the information. I do have Young's Literal Translation and will take a look when I get a chance. It's been awhile, but I've seen lengthy studies on this issue. We may still have some of them on the forum. I personally believe that He is Lord over all days and my rest is in Him 24/7. So, I worship Him every day, not just Sunday for a couple of hours. I'm disabled and retired, so I have plenty of time to do just about whatever I want to.

I'm off to try and get some rest. Have a great day.
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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 07:21:00 AM »

I see it the same as nChrist. Jesus is Lord of all days. Jesus said that we are to worship Him in spirit and in truth. We are also told "whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him". I see that as truly worshiping Him as He would have us do.
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 07:54:02 AM »

I agree, but we can't let anyone tell us that we must, as Christians, worship on Saturday. To me, that is flirting with falling back into the law as a way to please God. One thing leads to another, so to speak.
God bless, friends.

               Didymus Smiley
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nChrist
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2012, 04:32:05 PM »

Frankly, I don't pay much attention to folks who say that we MUST worship on Saturday, but some people have an almost one-track mind on this issue. You're right - this is legalistic - and we're not under the law. I give them Scripture - including:

Matthew 22:36-40 KJV  Master, which is the great commandment in the law?  37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.  38  This is the first and great commandment.  39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

We've had some on the forum in the past go so far as to say that going to church on Sunday is the mark of the beast. This is really ridiculous.

Galatians 5:1 KJV  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
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Brother Jerry
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« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2012, 12:08:35 PM »

Amen
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Sincerely
Brother Jerry

------
I am like most fathers.  I, like most, want more for my children than I have.

I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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