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Author Topic: Is there a DIFFERENCE between Matt 28:19 and Mark 16:15-18 ???  (Read 1440 times)
dan p
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« on: December 23, 2010, 07:35:22 PM »

Hi to all , and there will always be heavy discussion concerning Matt 28:19-20 , on whether it is for us or not  !

 Then you have MARK 16:15-18 ,  and I know that these 2 passage happen at different points of time in the Tribulation .

 #1 , I can show the word Gentile / ETHNOS  does  not always mean Gentile in verse 19 .

 #2 , The Nation of Israel  Rejected John the Baptist preaching . Luke 7:30 .

 #3 , Israel was given 3 opportunities  to accept their  MESSIAH ,   Acts 13:46  ;  Acts 18:6  and  Acts 28:25-31 .

 #4 , Israel has been set aside for over 2000 years , " until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in "  Rom 11:25 .

 #5 , John the Baptist was commissioned to reach the Jews and not Gentiles , Matt 3:11 .

 #6 , John the Baptist was to be  MANIFESTED  to Israel and not to Gentiles  , John 1:31 .

 #7 , This Baptism will be preached , during the first  3  1/2  part of the Tribulation .

 #8 , Baptism was  never  given to the Gentiles at all .

 #9 , Since   the Temple and the Sacrifices were destroyed in 70 AD , there is no Priesthood and I do not see any Jewish  MISSIONARIES  lately , have you ??

 I have seen many  OP  on the 144,000 , but no one ever says  why the 144,000  are  SEALED Huh

 #1 , I believe that the last  3 1/2  years of the Tribulation , is when Mark 16:15-18 are fulfilled .

 #2 , Baptism will again be preached .

 #3 , But sign are to  FOLLOW  ,  and did they follow you ??

 #4 , Cast out demons , because Israel was Demon possessed during Jesus time and will happen again !

 #5 Speak in new tongues , you did it , right ??

 #6 , Take up serpents and the will happen in Rev 9:19  and the 144,000 will never be  HURT .

 #7 , And   CAN  drink any deadly thing since they Have been  SEALED  ,  Rev 8:11,  for many died drinking the water .

 #8 , And they shall  LAY  hand on the sick and they  SHALL  RECOVER .

  And this why Matt 28 and Mark 16:15-18 are  Inconsistent  for they are 2 time periods .

 And yes the  KJV  ONLY  people are near us and the Chairman of our board you to attend and they feel  an assembly near us ..  I never have believed in  DOUBLE  INSPIRATION  and they feel that there is .  I believe that there are about 160  different translation , but they say that God preserved the English  KJV  for English speaking people .
« Last Edit: December 23, 2010, 07:53:40 PM by dan p » Logged
freelygive
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2010, 05:43:26 AM »

Quote
#8 , Baptism was  never  given to the Gentiles at all .

What about the Ethiopian eunuch?

Quote
And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. (...) And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. (Acts 8:27-29; 36-39)
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dan p
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« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2010, 01:52:05 PM »

What about the Ethiopian eunuch?


 Hi freelygive , and what was the Ethiopian reading Huh

 The Old Testament and  PROPHESY  concerning Christ , in Isa 53:7 and 8  with Acts 8:32-36 .

 The program of Baptism has not changed ?

 Saul/Paul  has not yet been saved or given the new message of the Mystery , Acts 20:24 , NOR  yet commissioned by Acts 9:15 .

 Nor does anyone know about the Body of Christ !!!

 So , and certainly , since he accepted Baptism , he had to become a Jew .   Context is very important !!!

 What say you ??
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« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2010, 06:20:54 PM »

Code:
Saul/Paul  has not yet been saved or given the new message of the Mystery , Acts 20:24 , NOR  yet commissioned by Acts 9:15 .

So you mean only after the dispute over the circumcision (Acts 15) uncircumsized men could be saved? Paul was merely reiterating what is the truth, he wasn't inventing it. Uncircumsized men could be saved since the garden of Eden. And isn't it weird that if the Ethiopian eunuch became a Jew first and was therefore circumsized, that the Bible doesn't mention it? I mean circumcision is quite an operation, of which the Bible testifies in Genesis 34:24-25, so it isn't some minor thing that isn't worth mentioning.  And if the eunuch was already circumsized before he met Philip, why doesn't the Bible just call him a jew? If the Bible calls the eunuch and Ethiopian and not a jew at all, he wasn't a jew. It is as simple as that.
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duval
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« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 12:00:15 PM »

Hi Freelygive

Excellent post!
 duval
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2010, 05:50:59 AM »

Hi Duval,

Thanks, brother.

Love in Christ,
freelygive
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dan p
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« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 03:29:33 PM »

Hi Duval,

Thanks, brother.

Love in Christ,
freelygive

 Hi freelygive , and what was the  OP , that neither of you ,  did  not respond too Huh
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« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2010, 04:03:26 PM »

Code:
Saul/Paul  has not yet been saved or given the new message of the Mystery , Acts 20:24 , NOR  yet commissioned by Acts 9:15 .

So you mean only after the dispute over the circumcision (Acts 15) uncircumsized men could be saved? Paul was merely reiterating what is the truth, he wasn't inventing it. Uncircumsized men could be saved since the garden of Eden. And isn't it weird that if the Ethiopian eunuch became a Jew first and was therefore circumsized, that the Bible doesn't mention it? I mean circumcision is quite an operation, of which the Bible testifies in Genesis 34:24-25, so it isn't some minor thing that isn't worth mentioning.  And if the eunuch was already circumsized before he met Philip, why doesn't the Bible just call him a jew? If the Bible calls the eunuch and Ethiopian and not a jew at all, he wasn't a jew. It is as simple as that.

Ummmm just a quick point here....do you know what it means to be made a eunuch?  There is no circumcision after becoming a eunuch....to put it plainly...there is nothing left to circumcize.
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« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2010, 04:10:04 PM »

Hi to all , and there will always be heavy discussion concerning Matt 28:19-20 , on whether it is for us or not  !

 Then you have MARK 16:15-18 ,  and I know that these 2 passage happen at different points of time in the Tribulation .

 #1 , I can show the word Gentile / ETHNOS  does  not always mean Gentile in verse 19 .

 #2 , The Nation of Israel  Rejected John the Baptist preaching . Luke 7:30 .

 #3 , Israel was given 3 opportunities  to accept their  MESSIAH ,   Acts 13:46  ;  Acts 18:6  and  Acts 28:25-31 .

 #4 , Israel has been set aside for over 2000 years , " until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in "  Rom 11:25 .

 #5 , John the Baptist was commissioned to reach the Jews and not Gentiles , Matt 3:11 .

 #6 , John the Baptist was to be  MANIFESTED  to Israel and not to Gentiles  , John 1:31 .

 #7 , This Baptism will be preached , during the first  3  1/2  part of the Tribulation .

 #8 , Baptism was  never  given to the Gentiles at all .

 #9 , Since   the Temple and the Sacrifices were destroyed in 70 AD , there is no Priesthood and I do not see any Jewish  MISSIONARIES  lately , have you ??

 I have seen many  OP  on the 144,000 , but no one ever says  why the 144,000  are  SEALED Huh

 #1 , I believe that the last  3 1/2  years of the Tribulation , is when Mark 16:15-18 are fulfilled .

 #2 , Baptism will again be preached .

 #3 , But sign are to  FOLLOW  ,  and did they follow you ??

 #4 , Cast out demons , because Israel was Demon possessed during Jesus time and will happen again !

 #5 Speak in new tongues , you did it , right ??

 #6 , Take up serpents and the will happen in Rev 9:19  and the 144,000 will never be  HURT .

 #7 , And   CAN  drink any deadly thing since they Have been  SEALED  ,  Rev 8:11,  for many died drinking the water .

 #8 , And they shall  LAY  hand on the sick and they  SHALL  RECOVER .

  And this why Matt 28 and Mark 16:15-18 are  Inconsistent  for they are 2 time periods .

 And yes the  KJV  ONLY  people are near us and the Chairman of our board you to attend and they feel  an assembly near us ..  I never have believed in  DOUBLE  INSPIRATION  and they feel that there is .  I believe that there are about 160  different translation , but they say that God preserved the English  KJV  for English speaking people .

Dan...

Let me be blunt

WHAT are you talking about?!

Both sections you are referring to are called the Great Commission and they are not in reference to the Tribulation period.  You say there is great discussion about Matthew, and you could not be further from the truth...no one is debating that at all.  Maybe you got your verses crossed, but let me post them here for you.

Matthew 28:16-20
16 But the eleven disciples proceeded to Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had designated.
17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."


Mark 16:14-20
14 Afterward He appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at the table; and He reproached them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who had seen Him after He had risen.
15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 "These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;
18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.
20 And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them, and confirmed the word by the signs that followed.] [And they promptly reported all these instructions to Peter and his companions. And after that, Jesus Himself sent out through them from east to west the sacred and imperishable proclamation of eternal salvation.]

It is clear these verses are talking to the same group of people, at the same time.....the 11 Disciples, after His resurrection....and we see that they went right out and started preaching everywhere.
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Brother Jerry

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I am like most fathers.  I, like most, want more for my children than I have.

I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2010, 06:08:57 PM »

Ummmm just a quick point here....do you know what it means to be made a eunuch?  There is no circumcision after becoming a eunuch....to put it plainly...there is nothing left to circumcize.

To put it even more plainly... an eunuch wasn't even able to become a Jew "He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD." (Deut 23:1)
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dan p
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« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2010, 08:00:09 PM »

Ummmm just a quick point here....do you know what it means to be made a eunuch?  There is no circumcision after becoming a eunuch....to put it plainly...there is nothing left to circumcize.

 Hi Brother Jerry , and Rom 2:26 that his Uncircumcision is   COUNTED  as Circumcision  and that is a good answer .

 Today all are circumcised with the Circumcision made without HANDS , in putting off the body of sins of the flesh by the Circumcision of Christ , and it shows that Christ was Circumcised  twice .

 Once when He was 8 days old !

 Once when He died on the Cross !!

 This means that women are also circumcised Huh   yes , by Christ   death !!!

 So , how were women saved in the Old Testament Huh
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« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2010, 05:50:42 AM »

Circumcision doesn't save you, believing on Jesus Christ does.

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (...) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:" Romans 4:1-3; 10-11.

Abraham was even saved before he was circumsized, by faith alone, not by works (like circumcision) lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:9)

By the way, the Egyptians were circumcized too, yet they all went to hell for a lack of faith.
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« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2010, 08:18:58 AM »

Yeah big side track there Smiley

Circumcisions was OT  baptism....a symbolic gesture of faith, it was not what saved anyone.
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I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2010, 01:04:41 PM »

Circumcision doesn't save you, believing on Jesus Christ does.

"What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. (...) How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision. And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also:" Romans 4:1-3; 10-11.

Abraham was even saved before he was circumsized, by faith alone, not by works (like circumcision) lest any man should boast. (Eph 2:9)

By the way, the Egyptians were circumcized too, yet they all went to hell for a lack of faith.

Amen! - Salvation has always been through Faith in God.
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« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2010, 05:34:18 PM »

Circumcisions was OT  baptism....a symbolic gesture of faith, it was not what saved anyone.

Nice analogy... didn't think of that.
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