Curious

[Willowbirch]

I like it. The rules are listed as follows:

Clothe yourselves with humility in your dealings with one another, for: "God opposes the proud but bestows favor on the humble."
1 Peter 5:5

Do not speak evil of one another, brothers. Whoever speaks evil of a brother or judges his brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. If you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
James 4:11

Do not return evil for evil, or insult for insult; but, on the contrary, a blessing, because to this you were called, that you might inherit a blessing.
1 Peter 3:8

Finally, all of you, be of one mind, sympathetic, loving toward one another, compassionate, humble.
1 Peter 3:8

I know, they have an error on the last 2. But BEP, this might be a better way to put the rules. lol, who is going to argue?

How refreshing!

[Symphony]

The ‘Mountain Meadows Massacre’ which is the common name for the killing of the wagon train from Arkansas, has been a black eye in our history every since it happened.  My mother told me about it when I was about 16 years old, about 24 years ago, and the known details of the incident have not changed significantly since.  The only ‘spinning’ that has been going on is that people, like this New York Times reporter, keep resurrecting the details of the incident with supposed new information.  I have read much on the subject and the proven details of what happened have not significantly changed in more than 100 years.  People like to make a big deal of the fact that Mormons were involved, they seem to want to keep that in the public eye.  Others try to tie the Church hierarchy into the unfortunate incident just as they have tried for over a century with no luck.  I find it fascinating that this article makes it sound like it hasn’t ever come to light that there were Mormons involved until recently and the Church somehow has successfully covered it up.  Well I heard about it 24 years ago and like I said, the details have not changed in over a century.  Here is a very extensive treatise on the subject and almost all of the quotes are from well before the turn of the century: http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/ldsdefense/mmm.html
If the article is trying to make it sound like it is a new thing that we now know more than just Indians were involved then his/her scholarship is very poor and he/she is looking for sensationalism as apposed to real journalism.  By the way, if you search the above website for the name Laban Morrill, that is my great great Grandfather.  He tried to ease the fear of the community leaders towards the Arkansans ( I grew up in Arkansas by the way.)  He also testified at the second trial of John D. Lee, the man ultimately convicted of wrong doing in the incident.  


Hmm.  Okay.  Thank you, Everywhit.

It basically was just from what highway construction crews had discovered along about the year 2000 or so and, apparently, at least as I recall, what forensic experts had determined from the skeletal remains of the victims found there.

[Everywhit]

[It basically was just from what highway construction crews had discovered along about the year 2000 or so and, apparently, at least as I recall, what forensic experts had determined from the skeletal remains of the victims found there.

In all fairness I should probably read the New York Times report itself and comment on it directly.  

Thanks,
Nathan

[Symphony]

Yes, thank you, Nathan.  Actually, it's The New Yorker magazine, a weekly.  I may still have it in my stacks.  I believe was an issue along in February '02, to coincide with the winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, there.  

It was a lengthy article, and spent only one or two paragraphs on the massacre affair, as I recall.  Actually, I was a bit surprised that a secular magazine would publish such a long article, in-depth.  But, I guess just 'cuz of the Olympics.

They've a pretty critical fact-checking dept. at that magazine, so I doubt they'd publish something like that without double-checking their sources.  But this is just what I recall.

It sounds pretty ruthless, actually.  Nevertheless, I'm reminded just how ruthless any of us can be, in the name of our particular church or organization.  In desperation our personalities can change in a flash.  It certainly isn't confined to the Mormons--if indeed that is what happened.

I've a short reference in just my old, common everyday World Book Encyclopedia, in the Revolutionary Boston Massacre, or there abouts, what the Puritans did to the Quakers(cut off their ears, etc.), to drive them out of their area.

The churches, no matter their persuasion, seem an embarrassing and chequered background.  You hardly blame those in secular society, the public schools, etc., for wanting religion to stay the xxxx out.  Unfortunately.