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Brother Jerry
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« Reply #15 on: October 08, 2008, 05:48:36 PM »

Excellent post Grammy.

Goes along with one I had posted a while back
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=12433.0

I am loving these questions, keep it up.
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I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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« Reply #16 on: October 08, 2008, 07:01:09 PM »

This has been mentioned numerous times on here and this article is in complete agreement with the truth. There are two words that pertain to this subject, Glossolalia and Xenoglossia. Glossolalia is the speaking of an unknown tongue. It makes absolutely no intelligent sense to anyone that hears it. Xenoglossia is the speaking in another language that is not originally known to the speaker but may be completely understood by someone else of that language.

Xenoglossia is what took place in the New Testament.

Act 2:7  And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8  And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

What we hear being practiced today in most churches is glossolalia. This is not unique to just certain denominations but an occurrence that has taken place in numerous churches of a number of different denominations. Something that should be of great concern to Christians in these churches is that it is also not unique to just the churches. This is an occurrence that takes place in pagan religions.

Approximately 500 BC the Greek philosopher Plato demonstrated that he was well acquainted with the phenomenon as he referred to several families who practiced ecstatic speech, praying and utterings while supposedly possessed.

In the last century before Christ, Virgil described the phenomenon of tongues in the Sybilline priestess on the Island of Delos as the result of her being unified with the god Apollo. This happened while she meditated in a haunted cave amidst the eerie sounds of the wind playing strange music through the narrow crevices in the rocks.

Several of the mystery religions of the Greco-Roman world record the same phenomenon. Some of those most often listed are the Mithra cult of the Persians; the Osiris cult originating in the land of the Pharaohs, and the lesser known Dionysian, Eulusinian, and Orphic cults cradled in Macedonia, Thrace and Greece. Another indication comes from Lucian of Samosata (A.D. 120-198) who in De Dea Syria describes an example of glossolalia as exhibited by a roaming believer of June, the Syrian goddess, stationed at Hierapolis in Syria. It is also interesting to note that the term glossolalia used so widely today comes from the Greek vernacular which was in existence long before the day of Pentecost. It should be frightening to all Christians that what we see now in the Church today, resembles these occurrences of ecstatic tongues that took place in these ancient cults before the day of Pentecost and that what took place at Pentecost does not in any way resemble these occurrences. At Pentecost, it was undoubtedly and unarguably the speaking of foreign languages.

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« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2008, 10:57:54 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

It would be wonderful if all Christians understood the purpose for 1 Corinthians, who wrote it, and who it was written to. Answering these basic questions first helps the reader put the time and circumstances into perspective, and this is really a must for Bible Study. It's also important to NEVER isolate one or several Scriptures OUT OF CONTEXT and try to understand them. One would never try to read a novel in this way, but we are talking about something much more important than a novel.

The Apostle Paul spent considerable time and effort in establishing the church at Corinth, but Paul had a mission to move on and spread the GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD to many more and establish other churches. There were behavior problems at the church in Corinth, and the services were being disturbed by outbursts, many people talking at once, and people doing things for THEIR OWN VANITY. There were other problems also that Paul felt convicted to address. To put things bluntly, one of the primary purposes of 1 Corinthians was to discipline the Church at Corinth and restore order. 1 Corinthians 14 is one of the most clear Biblical references to speaking in tongues, so at least read the entire 14th Chapter of 1 Corinthians.

The Apostle Paul was a Bible Scholar and spoke many languages. He had to speak many known languages of the time to preach in the various places he ministered to. There were also GIFTS at the time for GOD'S Messengers to speak other languages they didn't know so that the GOSPEL OF THE GRACE OF GOD could be spread with the limited number of messengers GOD used. The ability to speak more than one language at the time was seen as a sign that all should stop and listen because it was probably from GOD. Others began to mimic this GIFT without ever being given it, and the only known purpose was for the personal vanity of the person making the utterance. It was nothing but gibberish and a disruption of the services. HOWEVER, Paul didn't rule out the possibility that the church would be visited by messengers who DID have the GIFT of speaking multiple known languages. SO, 1 Corinthians 14 were RULES Paul gave to Corinth to restore order in their services. There were now rules for how many could speak at once and rules for interpreters. Paul was very blunt, and it did amount to members of the church being chewed out for allowing disruption and chaos in solemn meetings that were supposed to be devoted to GOD - NOT THE VANITY OF MAN.

The Apostle Paul probably did speak more languages than any of his contemporaries, but he was speaking in the language known to the people he was preaching to - NOT SOME UNKNOWN TONGUE. It's almost impossible to read 1 Corinthians 14 without visualizing an angry Apostle Paul who considered the disorder and disruptions to be disrespectful to GOD. Likewise, other issues made the Apostle Paul angry, and he addressed those issues very bluntly. GOD didn't send the Apostle Paul to establish just one church, rather many churches. He mentored others to take his place when he continued HIS MISSIONARY JOURNEYS. Read it carefully and you'll see that it WAS a disciplinary matter that Paul was trying to handle in a stern manner.

The Apostle Paul talked about the value of SPEAKING IN REAL TONGUES GIFT and compared it to other GIFTS that he clearly stated were more important. 1 Corinthians 14 couldn't be more clear, and the last Verse of the Chapter repeats the PURPOSE.


1 Corinthians 14:20-40 NASB  Brethren, do not be children in your thinking; yet in evil be infants, but in your thinking be mature.  21  In the Law it is written, "BY MEN OF STRANGE TONGUES AND BY THE LIPS OF STRANGERS I WILL SPEAK TO THIS PEOPLE, AND EVEN SO THEY WILL NOT LISTEN TO ME," says the Lord.  22  So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.  23  Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?  24  But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an ungifted man enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all;  25  the secrets of his heart are disclosed; and so he will fall on his face and worship God, declaring that God is certainly among you.  26  What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.  27  If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret;  28  but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.  29  Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.  30  But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent.  31  For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted;  32  and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets;  33  for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.  34  The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.  35  If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.  36  Was it from you that the word of God first went forth? Or has it come to you only?  37  If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.  38  But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.  39  Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues.  40  But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.


Regardless, people still TRY to speak in tongues who have NO GIFT at all, and they make fools of themselves. They simply achieve disorder, disruption, and disorder for no other purpose than their own VANITY. It's gibberish that nobody understands. The missionaries of today still go all over the world, and their first major task is the learn the language of the people they are going to serve. This is hard work but desperately needed. The same is true for translators of written materials into known languages so the GOSPEL can be distributed to the entire world. The TONGUES GIFTS CEASED when the "PERFECT" CAME. The "PERFECT" is the completed written WORD OF GOD. In other words, many  of the sign GIFTS, including TONGUES, CEASED with the completed Canon of the New Testament.

There are still many who speak KNOWN TONGUES today, but they labored long and hard in school to learn that language. That which is usually called "Speaking in Tongues" today is gibberish, and monkeys could do just as well. The Apostle Paul had the same problem almost 2,000 years ago and called it what it was. He also knew that some would still be determined to do it, so he gave them rules for their games of vanity. If some want to continue playing this vanity game today, they need to at least respect the RULES of 1 Corinthians 14. A church service should be orderly, reverent, and for the purpose of GLORIFYING, PRAISING, and WORSHIPING GOD. There is NO PLACE for the vanity of man.


Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 14:9-13 NASB  So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air.  10  There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning.  11  If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me.  12  So also you, since you are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek to abound for the edification of the church.  13  Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he may interpret.


P.S. Interpretation is of a KNOWN LANGUAGE - not gibberish.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2008, 11:11:06 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2008, 12:12:44 AM »

Regardless, people still TRY to speak in tongues who have NO GIFT at all, and they make fools of themselves. They simply achieve disorder, disruption, and disorder for no other purpose than their own VANITY. It's gibberish that nobody understands.

Yes, and it is because of the false teaching that you need to speak in tongues in order to show that you have received the Holy Spirit and if you don't "display" this gift then you haven't received the Holy Spirit. It is a sad thing when people are falsely influenced in this manner.

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« Reply #19 on: October 09, 2008, 07:21:35 AM »

Yes, and it is because of the false teaching that you need to speak in tongues in order to show that you have received the Holy Spirit and if you don't "display" this gift then you haven't received the Holy Spirit. It is a sad thing when people are falsely influenced in this manner.



Good Morning Pastor Roger,

If there is a spirit involved, there would be another sad fact to deal with:  it wouldn't be the Holy Spirit.

Love In Christ,
Tom



Favorite Bible Quotes 43 - 1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but
one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one
Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
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« Reply #20 on: October 09, 2008, 08:49:17 AM »

That is another sad but true statement. I do believe that we will be seeing much more of that spirit in the days to come.

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« Reply #21 on: October 09, 2008, 09:38:20 AM »

Quote
The missionaries of today still go all over the world, and their first major task is the learn the language of the people they are going to serve. This is hard work but desperately needed.
Amen!

And Amen to the whole thing.  Thank you.
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« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2008, 09:20:32 AM »

Acts 2

1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues [a] as the Spirit enabled them.

    5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.

Ummm....can't get much clearer than that.
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« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2008, 09:49:00 AM »

Acts 2

1 When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues [a] as the Spirit enabled them.

    5 Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. 6 When they heard this sound, a crowd came together in bewilderment, because each one heard their own language being spoken.

Ummm....can't get much clearer than that.

Amen Grammyluv,

Sister, could you imagine being there? It's hard to believe that Israel is still waiting for their Messiah and King.

Love In Christ,
Tom



Favorite Bible Quotes - 1 Corinthians 6:11 ASV And
such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye
were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our
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« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2008, 10:24:48 AM »

Amen Grammyluv,

Sister, could you imagine being there? It's hard to believe that Israel is still waiting for their Messiah and King.


I don't think any of us will have much longer to wait!  I would like to see a HUGE revival across the whole world first, but either way, I'm ready!  The whole world and it's circumstances have become a very depressing place.
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« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2008, 10:44:39 AM »

I would have to answer no. the bible teach that we are not to have anything to do with darkness and holloween is a celibration of exactly that. Beside why would you want to glorify death and distruction. We have been told to do everything for the edifacation in 1 corinthians.
Also I don't see hiw it would bring glory to God to glorify death for He is the God of life. Jesus said that He was/is the way the truth and the life. and that God is the God o the living and not the dead when He rebuked the saducess.
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« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2008, 10:59:35 AM »

Amen, an excellent answer straight from the Bible.

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« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2008, 11:17:00 AM »

as to the latter statement about tongues I have to admit that it is one thing that I have some difficulty with butat the same time I know that it is still active in the church body today. Just as healing and all the other gifts that are mentioned are. do I say that everyone that claims to speak such is telling the truth, no. unfortunatly there are a lot of people that try to fake the gifts and that is a sad thing. nor am I going to say that the only evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit is tongues. I believe that another use for tongues that has not been mentioned above is in romans 8 where the Spirit helps us to pray when we know not what to pray for. This is for edifacation of self as mentioned in 1 corinthians 12.4. also tongues are ment as a sign to the unbeliever. Paul did go on to give instruction in this though so that things would not be done in a caotic way. as mentioned in 1 corinthians 14.22.
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« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2008, 01:58:53 PM »

Halloween.

It is quite apparent that Satan is all into our holidays.  Look how toned down or secularized Christmas and Easter are, but then how glamorous and popular Halloween is becoming.
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« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2008, 02:10:18 PM »

as to the latter statement about tongues I have to admit that it is one thing that I have some difficulty with butat the same time I know that it is still active in the church body today. Just as healing and all the other gifts that are mentioned are. do I say that everyone that claims to speak such is telling the truth, no. unfortunatly there are a lot of people that try to fake the gifts and that is a sad thing. nor am I going to say that the only evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit is tongues. I believe that another use for tongues that has not been mentioned above is in romans 8 where the Spirit helps us to pray when we know not what to pray for. This is for edifacation of self as mentioned in 1 corinthians 12.4. also tongues are ment as a sign to the unbeliever. Paul did go on to give instruction in this though so that things would not be done in a caotic way. as mentioned in 1 corinthians 14.22.

There are some excellent Bible studies on this subject in addition to the information already given in this thread that is here on the forums that I think would be of an excellent aid to you.

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=21667.0

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=21648.0

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?topic=19886.0

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