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| | |-+  Baptize or not...Sprinkle or Submerge
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Author Topic: Baptize or not...Sprinkle or Submerge  (Read 5086 times)
Brother Jerry
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2008, 11:02:15 AM »

Ketch

I will say that you are correct in that the only act a person has to do is the acceptance of Christ.  This is the same across the board and no one is different.  That is why it is left at that.  Anything more than the acceptance of Christ and man will turn it into a boasting contest "I was baptized and you were not..nah nah nah", "I was submerged, you were merely sprinkled...nah nah nah" 

Ephesians 2:8-9 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
You can clearly see that we are saved through faith.  What is faith?
Hebrews 11:1 "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
We see that faith is not an action, but a driving force.  The rest of Hebrews 11 tells us that man of the great names of the Bible did things by faith "By faith Noah", "By faith Moses", etc.  It is their faith or willingness to do the will of God.

Let me ask you something.  If you do something and expect to get something in return what would you call that?  Working for a wage.  You do something and get paid for it in return.  You could get a cookie for your wage, or money, or anything else.  Either way it is a wage.  Romans 6:23 tells us that the wages of sin is death.  We are born sinners and deserve to die.  The rest of that verse tells us something about salvation as well.  The rest of the verse tells us that salvation is a gift from God.  Now you do not have to do anything to receive a gift do you?  (that is except to receive it).  You do not have to act good, because then it would be a reward, you do not have to say 12 hail mary's because then it would be a reward, you do not have to do anything other than accept a gift.

Now let me also ask this of you.  How many people does the New Testament say were baptized after meeting Jesus?  How many were not?
Matt 3 is the story of Jesus coming to John the Baptist.  John says in Matt 3:11 "but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
Mark 1:8 "I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost."
Then when Jesus shows up to be baptized John says in Matt 3:14 "I have need to be baptized of thee"

Look in Matthew 21 where Jesus was being questioned about whose authority he does all these great things.  He replies to them asking  "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?" (Matt 21:25).  Now the story continues and they do not answer him because they fear the outcomes of the answers.  But the same question could be asked of you.  Did heaven baptize Jesus in the river, or was it a man called John the Baptist?

And you would really think that if getting a water baptism was so important to salvation then Jesus would have been dunking people like it was no tomorrow...the feeding of the 5000 would have been the baptizing of the 5000 in the river.  But what does John 4:2 say? "Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,"  Jesus baptized no one. 

Now those are the important ones in the Gospels.  Notice if you go out and do a search in the gospels for the word "bapti" (leave off the rest so you get baptist, baptize, and any other variation).  You will find many references of John the Baptist.  But you will find little to represent that people went out and took a dip in the river.  You will find discussion of being baptized in the Holy Spirit but that is about it.  There is far more in the Gospels to talk about salvation simply being a free gift from God and the ONLY thing we must do is accept it. 

Now one of the verses for the baptism is important crowd to use is
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
but when you put it in the light of all of the other teachings the meaning of baptism here is the baptism by the Holy Ghost, not a physical baptism by water.

Even carrying on into Acts 1:5 we see reference to a baptism by water and the Holy Ghost are different and emphasis on the Holy Ghost being the important one.
For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Look at 1 Corinthians Chapter 1 and you can see that they struggled with the same thoughts, that baptism was a saving quality.  They began to boast on who baptized them.  Paul writes in vs 13"Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"  This is to bring home the importance that it is Christ who died for us.  It is the the Holy Spirit that baptizes us and not a matter of what preacher dunked us. 

Later in 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 Paul brings that point home "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."

There is no denying that the Bible does speak of a water baptism.  But the Bible is also very clear by word (some above) and by deeds that salvation is by baptism of the Holy Ghost and not of a water baptism.  The Bible tells us many times that baptism by the Holy Ghost is what Jesus is going bring.  And that it was this baptism of the HOly Ghost that was important to salvation.  Jesus baptized no one, if it were so vitally important you would think that He would have baptized John the Baptist at least.

So with all of that in mind you have to read the Bible with what is clear.  There are other verses that speak of water baptism and there are others that are not read properly.  "Believe and be baptized" is often one that is used.  Understand that this is speaking of having a belief in Jesus, and being baptized by the Holy Spirit.  The Holy Spirit is what comes and baptizes us, washes us clean, spiritually. 

Ketch I do hope that helps some.  Never over read what is in the Bible.  Start off simple and take it for what it says.  God does not want confusion, did not create the confusion, or anything of that nature.  And the more you study the more it will become clear what is written.  And this is simply because you get more familiar with the verses, it is not that God made it hard.

You are right in that there are many people out there that believe in water salvation as an absolute need for salvation.  And I pray that someone picks up their Bible and reads more.  There are no contradictions in the Bible, only misunderstandings.  And if you read something and it is simple "Thou shalt not pick your nose."  Well that is simple...it does not mean you should not unless you are standing on your head, or maybe driving down the road in the safety of your car...it is a simple statement and if you read something later that appears to contradict that...then you misread the later because the complex verses should only be read in light of the simpler ones.



Logged

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

------
I am like most fathers.  I, like most, want more for my children than I have.

I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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