Question of the Week...

[Soldier4Christ]

CB,

There is no mumbo jumbo to it. What I said is quite clear and plain and so is the scripture that I gave in regards to this subject. I will not continue to argue this subject. It is quite clear, In order to follow someone you must first know who you are going to follow.

[nChrist]

With all due respect Roger you are speaking in what I call "seminary mumble-jumble" which is used by many  IMO to elicit additional questions from listeners or readers the most common of which is "What does that mean?".  The simple truth is that when a person chooses to follow God ( "believes" Gr pisteuo "puts one's trust in") he is saved by the shed blood of our Lord Jesus.  If he continues to "believe" (put his trust in, cling to, follow) and was brought to salvation by hearing the Gospel he will learn who Jesus is.  Knowing who Jesus is is not a requirement for salvation (John3:16). 

Hello Chaplain Bob,

I also disagree with you completely, and this isn't "seminary mumble-jumble"! This is the BASIC TRUTH for SALVATION and an incredibly important issue. This is a simple Bible Fact not subject to debate. There is a simple and excellent reason why our FAITH is in JESUS CHRIST and not the thief on the cross next to HIM. JESUS CHRIST is VERY GOD, and all others are just men. A person does have to believe who JESUS CHRIST said HE IS and what HE DID on THE CROSS for SALVATION.

Frankly, I can't believe that we're having this conversation. It's bizarre and does not bring Glory to GOD. It makes me sad to know that the lost will be reading this. Denial of the ABSOLUTE DEITY of JESUS CHRIST is part of many FALSE RELIGIONS that don't save a single soul. FAITH comes by HEARING, and HEARING by THE WORD OF GOD. You've been given GOD'S WORD, and it bluntly addresses this issue. Make it simple and read the Scripture you've been given again. The Scripture is incredibly simple and blunt without the need for any commentary at all. So, that would also rule out the possibility of any "mumble-jumble" unless that's what you want to call GOD'S WORD.

[Chaplain Bob]

Hello Chaplain Bob,

I also disagree with you completely, and this isn't "seminary mumble-jumble"! This is the BASIC TRUTH for SALVATION and an incredibly important issue. This is a simple Bible Fact not subject to debate. There is a simple and excellent reason why our FAITH is in JESUS CHRIST and not the thief on the cross next to HIM. JESUS CHRIST is VERY GOD, and all others are just men. A person does have to believe who JESUS CHRIST said HE IS and what HE DID on THE CROSS for SALVATION.

Frankly, I can't believe that we're having this conversation. It's bizarre and does not bring Glory to GOD. It makes me sad to know that the lost will be reading this. Denial of the ABSOLUTE DEITY of JESUS CHRIST is part of many FALSE RELIGIONS that don't save a single soul. FAITH comes by HEARING, and HEARING by THE WORD OF GOD. You've been given GOD'S WORD, and it bluntly addresses this issue. Make it simple and read the Scripture you've been given again. The Scripture is incredibly simple and blunt without the need for any commentary at all. So, that would also rule out the possibility of any "mumble-jumble" unless that's what you want to call GOD'S WORD.

First of all I do not deny that Jesus is God nor would I ever teach anyone that He is not God.  Where we disagree is when one obtains that knowledge.  The primary salvation verse, John 3:16, does not require that one know Jesus is God in order to be saved.  "Believe" in John 3:16 means "put trust in" and does not require that one believe Jesus is God in order to be "saved".  I believe many people have difficulty coming to Christ and may be lost to the Kingdom because men have complicated the simple salvation message by requiring a convert believe doctrinal issues that they should be taught after salvation.   I have been a follower of Jesus for 61 years and in recent times God has opened my eyes to the errors being taught and the fact that people don't need religion they need Jesus.  What the lost should be reading is that God loves them and has offered them salvation by shedding the blood of His Son to pay the price for their sins NOT "God offers you salvation IF you learn everything about Jesus before you put your trust in Him".   

[nChrist]

First of all I do not deny that Jesus is God nor would I ever teach anyone that He is not God.  Where we disagree is when one obtains that knowledge.  The primary salvation verse, John 3:16, does not require that one know Jesus is God in order to be saved.  "Believe" in John 3:16 means "put trust in" and does not require that one believe Jesus is God in order to be "saved".  I believe many people have difficulty coming to Christ and may be lost to the Kingdom because men have complicated the simple salvation message by requiring a convert believe doctrinal issues that they should be taught after salvation.   I have been a follower of Jesus for 61 years and in recent times God has opened my eyes to the errors being taught and the fact that people don't need religion they need Jesus.  What the lost should be reading is that God loves them and has offered them salvation by shedding the blood of His Son to pay the price for their sins NOT "God offers you salvation IF you learn everything about Jesus before you put your trust in Him".   

Bluntly, I'm simply going to tell you that I don't care what you think, and it matters ZERO what I think. I care what the Bible clearly and boldly states in a way that is UNQUESTIONABLE. Go back and read the Scriptures you have been given. Not another word is needed from you, me, or anyone else. GOD has already spoken on this issue with bluntness and without question. This is not my doctrine or my belief that I'm pushing - JUST THE CLEAR, BLUNT WORD OF GOD! YOU ARGUE WITH GOD - NOT ME! YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN ANY OTHER WAY - AND GOD'S WORD IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY ON THIS ISSUE!

[HisDaughter]

NOT "God offers you salvation IF you learn everything about Jesus before you put your trust in Him".   

I think we're getting a little petty here.  Of course you don't have to know "everything" about Jesus to be saved.  None of us knows "everything" about Jesus.  It's a life long journey.  However, you must believe in who he actually IS in order to recieve the salvation that He offers.  If one didn't have the knowledge of the power He has, the power that He can only have, as GOD why would you choose to turn your life over to Him anyway.  Doesn't make sense.  Where would your Hope in Him be?  May as well put your hope in your next door neighbor, etc.
It is the very foundation of Christianity that Jesus IS God, that he was there at the beginning of creation, that he has always been part of the Trinity.  To tell folks that they can recieve their salvation on anything less is false teaching.

[Soldier4Christ]

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


"whosoever believeth in him". To believe in Him is to believe in His word. Jesus said "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". It is quite clearly written that if you do not believe that Jesus is God that you will not receive salvation. It was for this very reason that many were cut off at the roots.

[HisDaughter]

"for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins

Amen.

[Chaplain Bob]

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


"whosoever believeth in him". To believe in Him is to believe in His word. Jesus said "for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins". It is quite clearly written that if you do not believe that Jesus is God that you will not receive salvation. It was for this very reason that many were cut off at the roots.

I've already stated what "believe" means in John 3:16 and it's not what you say.

[Chaplain Bob]

Bluntly, I'm simply going to tell you that I don't care what you think, and it matters ZERO what I think. I care what the Bible clearly and boldly states in a way that is UNQUESTIONABLE. Go back and read the Scriptures you have been given. Not another word is needed from you, me, or anyone else. GOD has already spoken on this issue with bluntness and without question. This is not my doctrine or my belief that I'm pushing - JUST THE CLEAR, BLUNT WORD OF GOD! YOU ARGUE WITH GOD - NOT ME! YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THE SCRIPTURES YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN ANY OTHER WAY - AND GOD'S WORD IS THE ONLY AUTHORITY ON THIS ISSUE!

Why the hostitiy?  And what I have said is not my idea but what God has revealed to me.

[Chaplain Bob]

I think we're getting a little petty here.  Of course you don't have to know "everything" about Jesus to be saved.  None of us knows "everything" about Jesus.  It's a life long journey.  However, you must believe in who he actually IS in order to recieve the salvation that He offers.  If one didn't have the knowledge of the power He has, the power that He can only have, as GOD why would you choose to turn your life over to Him anyway.  Doesn't make sense.  Where would your Hope in Him be?  May as well put your hope in your next door neighbor, etc.
It is the very foundation of Christianity that Jesus IS God, that he was there at the beginning of creation, that he has always been part of the Trinity.  To tell folks that they can recieve their salvation on anything less is false teaching.

The "very foundation of Christianity" is that God loves us so much that He sacrificed His own Son the we might have eternal life.

[nChrist]

Why the hostitiy?  And what I have said is not my idea but what God has revealed to me.

I'm sure that GOD didn't reveal a single thing to you that's contrary to HIS WORD. This was a beautiful thread that contained nothing but the TRUTH - BIBLICAL TRUTH! For whatever reason, you chose to attack BASIC BIBLE FACTS and GOD'S SIMPLE PLAN OF SALVATION. GOD didn't lead you to do this, and it ends here! IT DOES END HERE!

Moderator

[HisDaughter]

The "very foundation of Christianity" is that God loves us so much that He sacrificed His own Son the we might have eternal life.

And that is true, but you are saying that belief in Christ is not a requirement for salvation and we are telling you in as many ways possible, that it is.

[Soldier4Christ]

For those that are willing to listen to the truth and are truly seeking God's word instead of what they want it to be. The word believeth, Greek pisteuō, in John 3:16 does indeed mean to trust. It also means to have faith in, to give credit to, to believe. We cannot pick and choose what we believe of God's word. We believe it all or we do not believe any of it. This is the basis of the gospel, that God came to us in the flesh and gave His life in our stead that we might have eternal life.



Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17  For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Salvation, salvation from death under the law by God's perfect grace.

Rom 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 1:18  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Rom 3:20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Rom 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Rom 5:9  Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Rom 2:4  Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

Rom 3:22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Rom 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Rom 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Rom 4:21  And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

Rom 4:24  But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Rom 5:1  Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 10:10  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rom 10:13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

[HisDaughter]

Question: "Why did Jesus instruct us to pray 'lead us not into temptation' when God states that He does not tempt us?"

Answer: We know from James 1:13 that God does not tempt us to sin. If He did, He would be acting contrary to His holy nature, against His desire for us to be holy as He is holy (1 Peter 1:16), and against all other commandments in Scripture that tell us to avoid sin and flee temptation. In the Lord’s Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13), Jesus included asking the Lord not to lead us into temptation as one of the things we are to pray for regularly, along with forgiveness of sins, daily provisions, and seeking God’s glory and kingdom. From this list, we can see that avoiding temptation should be one of the primary concerns of the Christian life.

The idea of God leading His people is a main theme of Scripture. The Psalms especially are filled with pleas for God to lead us in His ways (Psalm 5:8; 27:11), by His truth and righteousness and in “the way everlasting” (Psalm 139:24). Along with leading us to good things, it is understood that we are asking God to lead us away from evil. This petition reflects the believer’s desire to avoid the dangers of sin altogether. This phrase, then, must be understood in the sense of "permitting." Do not "allow" us, or "permit" us, to be tempted to sin. In this it is implied that God has such control over the tempter as to save us from his power if we call upon him.

There is another sense in which we are to plead with God not to lead us into temptation. The word “temptation” can also refer to trials. We know from 1 Corinthians 10:13 that God will not test us beyond our ability to bear and will always provide a way out. But He sometimes subjects us to trials that may expose us to Satan’s assaults for His own purposes, as in the case of Job and Peter (Luke 22:31-32). If this is the meaning here, as it may be, then the meaning of the prayer is, "Do not afflict or try us." It is not wrong to pray that we may be delivered from trials and suffering, as long as we submit ourselves to the will of God, no matter what it is. The believer can rightly ask to be delivered from this type of testing as well as asking for the strength to endure it if it does come.

In both senses, whether asking for God to lead us away from sin or from difficult trials, the goal is found in the second part of verse 13: “deliver us from evil.” A petition similar to this is offered by David, Psalm 141:4: "Incline not my heart to any evil thing, to practice wicked works with the workers of iniquity." In all things, God is our deliverer and we are to pray to Him as such.

[HisDaughter]

Question: "Where does the Old Testament predict the coming of Christ?"

Answer: There are many Old Testament prophecies about Jesus Christ. Some interpreters place the number of Messianic prophecies in the hundreds. The following are those that are considered the clearest and most important.

Regarding Jesus’ birth—Isaiah 7:14: “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.” Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” Micah 5:2: “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times.”

Concerning Jesus' ministry and death—Zechariah 9:9: “Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey.” Psalm 22:16-18: “Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.”

Likely the clearest prophecy about Jesus is the entire 53rd chapter of Isaiah. Isaiah 53:3-7 is especially unmistakable: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.”

The “seventy sevens” prophecy in Daniel chapter 9 predicted the precise date that Jesus, the Messiah, would be “cut off.” Isaiah 50:6 accurately describes the beating that Jesus endured. Zechariah 12:10 predicts the “piercing” of the Messiah, which occurred after Jesus died on the cross. Many more examples could be provided, but these will suffice. The Old Testament most definitely prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah.