Liberal - Conservative

[Willowbirch]

Beautiful, Allinall.  

[Tibby]

Beautiful, Allinall.  

Yeah, good post, Allinall!

[Symphony]

bep:
I'm asking this question as an overall view of yourself, and these terms certainly pertain to more than just politics. Have a little bit of fun with this and tell us why you feel that you fit into a particular category.

In Christ,
Tom



I just heard Rush Limbaugh saying today that liberals are always so busy respecting multiple views they never can decide on just one.  

[Willowbirch]

I just heard Rush Limbaugh saying today that liberals are always so busy respecting multiple views they never can decide on just one.  

 

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

I just heard Rush Limbaugh saying today that liberals are always so busy respecting multiple views they never can decide on just one.  

   If that is true, most of the Democrats running for President are probably liberals. It seems that many of them change their minds once a week. UM??, or is that all politicians? Their history of voting is one way and their running platform is different. If the polls aren't good, check the guy again next week for his new set of opinions.  

In Christ,
Tom

[Brother Love]

I just heard Rush Limbaugh saying today that liberals are always so busy respecting multiple views they never can decide on just one.  

 

Right On!

I love Rush Limbaugh

Brother Love

[Tibby]

I want to know who the 2 guys who voted for Liberal - Moderate are!

[Willowbirch]

I want to know who the 2 guys who voted for Liberal - Moderate are!

  Maybe they're hiding...

[michael_legna]

I am a moderate-liberal basically because of social programs.  I feel we (and in the US that means the government) need to help those less fortunate than ourselves.  This issue is so poorly addressed in this country that for me it actually outweighs the issue of abortion which I am dead set against.

I once saw a definition of liberal and conservative (or maybe it was Democrat and Republican) that read:

Push a liberal hard enough to the left and you get a Communist.  Push a conservative hard enough to the right and you get a Nazi.  I know it is hyperbole and not a very accurate one at that but the sentiment is clear.  If you are truly looking for a kinder gentler country don't look to the conservative side of the isle.  They want everyone to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.

Not that I hate conservatives, some of my best friends are conservatives.  

Oh, and I am adding this late since I read all the other posts.  I am the third one to choose moderate-liberal, and I only chose that because my wife thinks I am way too conservative.

[Symphony]

Hmmm, thank you michael__l.

of social programs.  I feel we (and in the US that means the government) need to help those less fortunate than ourselves.  

Yes, I know.  This is the frequent refrain used to justify many governments, including the coming global one, on many different levels.

But it's answer--that is, "social programs", by necessity, or by definition, implies coercion.  I.e., how do we finance these programs?  Revenues.  How do we finance revenues?  Taxes. How do we collect taxes?   Yes, the IRS tells us ours is a voluntary tax system.  

How did Jesus answer this very question from the Pharisees?  Jesus replied, "Render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's", thereby implying that very reality, "coercion"(Caesar by defnition was "coercion", that is, a slave state.  Rome was built on the backs of slave labor).

So under the guise of "generosity", sympathy and compassion, we steadily increase and move into place more and more government control, at the same time gradually moving out of place that natural generosity that springs from people who give and tythe not just because they have to, but because they want to("...God loves the heart of a cheerful giver...").

Or, in effect, you have the natural generosity of those who go to church(and even those who don't ), being replaced by the threatening caveat of what will happen to you if you don't give(socialism).

The quote on this topic I've heard goes something like this:  

"A liberal is someone who gives away other peoples' money.

"A conservative is someone who gives away his own money."

 

[Tibby]

How did Jesus answer this very question from the Pharisees?  Jesus replied, "Render unto Caesar, what is Caesar's", thereby implying that very reality, "coercion"(Caesar by defnition was "coercion", that is, a slave state.  Rome was built on the backs of slave labor).

I respectfully, but COMPLETELY disagree with that interpretation of that verse.  I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing, he said what he said, which was “Pay your taxes.”

[Symphony]

Hehe. I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing,

Hehe, Tibby, I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing,.

Good one.  


Yeah, right.  

Jesus gives us all these parables, in the New Testament, and he isn't "implying a thing".

Hehe.


   

[Tibby]

To imply something would mean he hinting at it. He did not hint at what you said. If he did, please point it out. Don't just roll your eye, share the knowledge.

[Symphony]

I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing, he said what he said, which was “Pay your taxes.”

Hmmm, but is that what Jesus said?  

To "imply" is to include your audience, Tibby.  Which is what parables, illustrations, examples, etc. are all about. The measure of any brilliance is not only what you put in, but what you leave out--or rather, knowing what to leave out.  Your audience is left to ponder, and to weigh, thus making your effort more enjoyable(or uncomfortable, hehe) for them.

The brilliance of Jesus' parables are in what he leaves for you to figure out(thus "including" you).

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's", is what Jesus says.

But, just what IS Casesar's?  (Arguablly, you should get any number of answers on just that one alone).

Why isn't that just "Pay your taxes", as you assert?

Well, if Jesus, the king of the Jews, the king of all mankind, the king of the universe, is standing there, asking, "What is Caesar's?", the obvious implication(there's the implication) is, "Nothing".  "Nothing" is Caesars.  Nothing is ours.  Nothing is yours.

If "nothing" is Caesar's, then how can you render him any of it??

Only by coercion.  

And thus we do.

Jesus is drawing a distinction between His Kingdom(love), and worldly kingdoms(coercion--or, that is, non-love).

All worldly governments, ultimately, collect their taxes(without which they could not exist)by coercion.  They don't "love" you.

So, obey the laws, and render unto the gov't what is "theirs"(nothing).

The point of Jesus' whole Caesar statement is not the question of taxes at all(it all belongs to God anyway); it's the question of whose kingdom are we talking about here, and what is the difference.    

So the statement, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's", is rich with implication...

[Tibby]

I believe Jesus wasn’t implying a thing, he said what he said, which was “Pay your taxes.”

Hmmm, but is that what Jesus said?  

To "imply" is to include your audience, Tibby.  Which is what parables, illustrations, examples, etc. are all about. The measure of any brilliance is not only what you put in, but what you leave out--or rather, knowing what to leave out.  Your audience is left to ponder, and to weigh, thus making your effort more enjoyable(or uncomfortable, hehe) for them.

We already covered this, Why are you saying it again? Only this time, you make Jesus sound like a Zen master instead of the Christ. That is how things like “rapture” got started, some one put words in Jesus’ mouth. You are putting words in Jesus’ mouth. We are to obey the Governing Authority. That is the Authority that God put here in this Earth to be over you. Why would the other Authors of the New testament be telling us the Government is placed here by God, if Jesus told them the Government was evil.

You’ve been listening to Rage Against the Machine to much, Sym. Give Sapph his CD's back lol j/k