Immoral behavior

[HisDaughter]

I am so saddened by the state of affairs of this old world, but I have to say that I also get excited when I see prophecy being fulfilled.  I have so long been interested but have found that most churches I have been to are afraid to speak on it.  They don't want any debate with their congregations.  Most of what I know I have read for myself and come to my own conclusions of what I think will happen.  It is comforting to know that my own thoughts have been so close to the mark and I'm encouraged to find that most of you on here are of the same thoughts. 

[nChrist]

Hello Grammyluv,

I understand Christians not wanting to talk about specific years, dates, or times, but it is becoming fairly obvious that we are approaching the end days of this Age of Grace. I think this is important and should definitely be talked about. It was important enough for the Apostle Paul to talk about it in his day, so it should be even more important in our day. The Thessalonians were worried and concerned about these issues, so the Apostle Paul gave them the comforting and wonderful TRUTH.

Sister, GOD gave us that information for a reason - HE wanted us to know what was going to happen, and HE certainly wanted us to know about HIS Promises to HIS CHURCH and HIS Promises to Israel. GOD'S Promises to Christians in the days of Paul gave them comfort and hope in the ultimate TRUTH from GOD, and the same should be true for us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 NASB
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:50-58 NASB
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory. "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O  DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?" The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your toil is not in vain in the Lord.

[HisDaughter]

I'm with ya Brother Tom.  I see it like you do.  And if anyone starts naming dates then I'm through listening and/or reading.  Nobody knows when and I'm aware of that, but I'm expecting it soon!
Couldn't be soon enough for me.  My ticket's bought and paid for!
Amen. 

[Soldier4Christ]

I'm with ya Brother Tom.  I see it like you do.  And if anyone starts naming dates then I'm through listening and/or reading.  Nobody knows when and I'm aware of that, but I'm expecting it soon!
Couldn't be soon enough for me.  My ticket's bought and paid for!
Amen. 

AMEN!

[Shammu]

Brazil to Dispense Condoms in Schools
 Email this Story

Dec 1, 2:56 PM (ET)

The symbol of AIDS awareness hangs in front of Christ the Redeemer statue to commemorate World Aids...

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) - Brazil's government announced plans to put condom-dispensing machines in public schools to help teenagers reduce the spread of AIDS.

The health and education ministries and the United Nations sponsored a nationwide contest for students to design the dispenser. Three potential models were selected on Friday, the government news agency Agencia Brasil said.

Condom machines are to be installed in 100 public schools in 2008, officials said.

The head of the National Program of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, Mariangela Simao, said part of the project is educational and aims not to "banalize" the use of condoms. She said 100,000 schools were involved with the anti-AIDS program.

Health Minister Jose Gomes Temporao this week said young Brazilians between 13 and 24 were the target of Brazil's anti-AIDS campaign this year. Nearly 70,000 cases of AIDS were registered among Brazilians under 24, or about 16 percent of the cases reported in the country, according to the anti-AIDS program.

Brazil provides free AIDS drugs to anyone who needs them and has aggressively pushed drug manufacturers to lower prices.

Brazil to Dispense Condoms in Schools

[nChrist]

Folks just don't get it. At the very least, immoral behavior will cause misery! However, this kind of immoral behavior has caused misery, disease, and death for millions, and millions are dying right now.

A.I.D.S. is a plague courtesy of those from alternative lifestyles. Violation of GOD'S Laws of Nature nearly always have a horrible price. All kinds of other plagues have been loosed on mankind because of acting like animals and being immoral. BUT REMEMBER - these things are supposed to be normal and respected. NOPE! There's plenty of room left in cemeteries and HELL!

What the world needs is JESUS CHRIST!

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[Shammu]

NURSES TOLD TO TURN MUSLIMS’ BEDS TO MECCA

December 4,2007
By Paul Jeeves

OVERWORKED nurses have been ordered to stop all medical work five times every day to move Muslim patients’ beds so they face towards Mecca.

The lengthy procedure, which also includes providing fresh bathing water, is creating turmoil among overstretched staff on bustling NHS wards.

But despite the havoc, Mid- Yorkshire NHS Trust says the rule must be instigated whenever possible to ensure Muslim patients have “a more comfortable stay in hospital”.

And a taxpayer-funded training programme for several hundred hospital staff has begun to ensure that all are familiar with the workings of the Muslim faith.

The scheme is initially being run at Dewsbury and District Hospital, West Yorkshire, but is set to be introduced at other hospitals in the new year.

It comes on the back of the introduction in some NHS hospitals last year of Burka-style gowns for Muslim patients who did not wish medical staff to see their face while operating or caring for them.

Last night critics slammed the procedure and claimed the NHS would be better off investing its resources in tackling killer superbugs such as C.diff and MRSA.

One experienced nurse working at Dewsbury said: “It would be easier to create Muslim-only wards with every bed facing Mecca than have to deal with this.

“Some people might think it is not that big a deal, but we have a huge Muslim population in Dewsbury and if we are having to turn dozens of beds to face Mecca five times a day, plus provide running water for them to wash before and after prayers, it is bound to impact on the essential medical service we are supposed to be providing.

“Although the beds are designed to be moved, the bays are not really suitable for having loads of beds moved around to face a different direction, and despite our best efforts it does cause disruption for non-Muslim patients.”

The changes have been instigated by Dewsbury and District Hospital’s chief matron, Catherine Briggs, after she held a series of consultation meetings with local Asian GPs, ethnic minority patients groups and Muslim chaplain Ilyas Dalal to find out what staff could do to further improve Muslim patients’ experience of the NHS.

In accordance with the rules of Islam, Muslims are required to pray five times a day. The religion dictates they must wash themselves in running water prior to prayer and must be facing in the direction of Mecca while praying. Mecca, in Saudi Arabia, is revered as the birthplace of the prophet Mohammed, who was born around 570AD.

Turning beds so they face towards Mecca was a key proposal put forward during the hospital meetings, along with suggestions that Muslim women should only be seen by female doctors.

Although the Trust, which also oversees hospitals in Wakefield and Pontefract, could not guarantee women-only doctors, they agreed that “wherever possible” specific patient requests would be carried out.

Mrs Briggs said: “Some of our former Muslim patients suggested that a more informed understanding of the Islamic cultures would help staff to further improve their service.”

Last night Conservative MP David Davies said: “Hospitals should be concentrating on stopping the spread of infections than kow-towing to the politically correct brigade.

“If the need for fresh running water is so great then perhaps family members could be on hand to assist the already overworked medical staff.”

NURSES TOLD TO TURN MUSLIMS’ BEDS TO MECCA

[Shammu]

Hospital Defends Plans to Turn Patients' Beds to Face Mecca
By Patrick Goodenough
CNSNews.com International Editor
December 05, 2007

(CNSNews.com) - A hospital in northern England is playing down media reports saying that nurses have been ordered to stop normal duties five times a day to turn Muslim patients' beds so that they face Mecca.

British tabloid newspapers reported Tuesday that at a hospital in West Yorkshire county, "overworked" nurses in the taxpayer-funded National Health Service (NHS) were struggling to cope with the additional duties required for Muslim patients.

Apart from moving the beds, the nurses also have to provide bathing water for pre-prayer ablutions, the reports said.

The new duties were causing "havoc," said the Daily Express, while the Daily Star said they were "creating turmoil" and quoted a doctor at the hospital as saying it was a case of "political correctness gone mad."

Devout Muslims pray five times daily -- generally before sunrise, after noon, before sunset, after sunset, and after dark -- facing the direction of the Kabaa in Mecca, Islam's most revered site.

The hospital is located in the municipal borough of Kirklees, where 10 percent of the population of 400,000 is Muslim, mostly of Pakistani origin, according to 2001 government statistics.

The media reports were based on a release by the "NHS trust" -- the local corporation responsible for the hospital -- which said that hospital staff were "positioning the beds of very ill Muslim patients to face Mecca if requested by the patient, providing shower facilities for patients, as well as bathing facilities [and] providing halal meal options for patients."

Nurses also taking undergoing training workshops to learn how they could further improve service for Muslims, in line with a "continued commitment to meet the privacy and dignity needs of all their patients," it said.

It quoted hospital matron Catherine Briggs as saying some Muslim former patients "suggested that a more informed understanding of the Islamic cultures would help staff to further improve their service."

"We always do our best to listen to our patients and are willing to adapt our nursing practices where possible to help patients uphold their cultural beliefs," she said.

In reaction to the media reports, the hospital issued a new statement on Tuesday, calling the coverage "entirely inaccurate."

"Nurses are not being removed from their duties to move patients' beds towards Mecca," chief nurse Tracey McErlain-Burns said. "Moving patients' beds for prayer five times a day has not been suggested as part of this workshop and staff have not been ordered to do this."

But, she added, "In the context of responding to requests from patients and families, particularly when faced with a very ill patient, it is entirely reasonable that nurses consider all practical steps to meet a patient's cultural or religious needs. This may include adjusting the position of the bed, or escorting the patient to the chapel or faith center."

Under seven-year-old race relations legislation, NHS trusts are required to promote equality between different ethnicities and to publish data showing that they are complying with the law. A government review published last month found that only 35 out of 394 NHS trusts were fulfilling all of their race relations duties.

Last September, an NHS trust in Lancashire, a county adjacent to West Yorkshire, announced the introduction of burqa-like gowns including a choice of head coverings for patients "whose culture or religion requires them to be more modestly clothed."

In August, a Muslim youth organization complained about plans to cut medical services at a hospital near Manchester, saying that the local NHS trust had not carried out a detailed "Race Impact Assessment" beforehand.

" One of the major impacts of this decision will be on Muslim pregnant women," said the Ramadhan Foundation. "If they are about to give birth, they will under the proposals have to travel over five miles to a hospital -- they are more likely to give birth in a car.

"In Islam in it obligatory that Muslim women that give birth in private," the organization said. "The cultural and religious needs of Muslims have been ignored.""

Hospital Defends Plans to Turn Patients' Beds to Face Mecca
~~~~~~~~~~~~

other sources:

British hospital turns Muslims' beds to face Mecca

British Nurses Told to Turn Muslims’ Beds to Mecca

Muslim patients offering Namaz five times a day leave UK nurses overworked

[Shammu]

Why turn the beds 5 times a day?? Just turn 'em once and leave them there.........

When they allow sharia law downgrade the Laws of the land. You can bet they are going to apply it to people, muslim or non-muslim, against their will!!

A kind and loving god would understand that maybe you're sick and to not worry about which way your bed faces while you're recovering. Our Lord Jesus doesn't care which way you face, He loves to hear from you anyplace, anytime, anywhere!!

[Shammu]

Girls as young as 12 are given the morning-after pill - without parents' knowledge
By LAURA CLARK -
3rd December 2007

Girls as young as 12 are being given the morning-after pill without their parents' knowledge at chemist shops.

A report shows the powerful contraceptive is available to young girls at High Street pharmacies in almost every area.

It reveals the growing ease with which they can get hold of a pill that has barely been tested on girls under 15 and was previously available only on prescription.

Under a controversial Government scheme to cut teenage pregnancies, youngsters are asked only basic questions in a brief consultation with a pharmacist.

The scheme is operated by a staggering eight out of ten local NHS trusts.

The Family Education Trust, which produced the report, says the policy is having no effect on pregnancy rates and is actually increasing promiscuity, putting girls at greater risk of sexually transmitted diseases.

Campaigner Sue Axon said last night: "I know of a 14-year-old whose boyfriend tried to talk her into having sex by saying he would take her for the morning-after pill.

"Young boys think they have a licence to do whatever they want because of this."

Disclosures under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that 84 per cent of England's 152 NHS trusts allow pharmacies like Boots to hand out the morning-after pill to girls under 16.

Some set lower age limits of 12, 13, 14 or 15, but more than half do not.

Astonishingly, 59 per cent of trusts would consider refusing to licence a new pharmacy unless it promised to provide the pill to children.

Family planning clinics issue more than 20,000 morning-after prescriptions to under-16s every year. But thousands more girls are thought to be getting them without prescription from chemists.

The Family Education Trust said the policy smacked of "sheer desperation or blind ideology" and served only to promote casual sex and undermine parental authority.

Its director, Norman Wells, said: "Over recent years we have witnessed the systematic removal of every restraint which in previous generations served as a disincentive to underage sexual activity.

"There can be no doubt that the free and confidential provision of the emergency pill to girls under 16 is further promoting a casual approach to sexual relationships.

"This will inevitably result in more underage sex, more teenage pregnancies, and more sexually-transmitted infections".

The report, Waking Up to the Morning-After Pill, shows how prescribing to under-16s is becoming widespread.

Schemes allowing chemists to hand out the pill were originally confined to urban areas with particularly high rates of teenage pregnancies.

Now they are commonplace - the Trust found that 128 primary care trusts operate them. Pharmacies are not obliged to participate, but those signing up must abide by the conditions laid down by the PCT.

Boots, which runs more than 2,000 chemists, said it usually took part in such schemes to "support the primary care trust in its aims locally".

Other big retail chains also comply, although Tesco has a policy of restricting morning-after pill provision to girls of at least 16 or with prescriptions.

The supermarket took the stand following a public outcry over 2002 Governmentbacked trials at some stores. It complained last year that NHS trusts were "forcing" its stores to supply the pill to children.

Tesco said it had been warned some instore pharmacies might not be granted licences in future unless they agreed to provide the under-16 service.

Over-the-counter sales to adults have been permitted since 2001.

A Department of Health spokesman said last night:

"Health professionals such as pharmacists can legally provide emergency contraception to under 16s, under local NHS arrangements, if they are satisfied that the young person is competent to understand fully the implications of any treatment and after encouraging them to talk to a parent.

"The decision to develop arrangements for pharmacists to supply emergency contraception is taken by the local NHS."

England and Wales has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe. The biggest recent increase has been among under 16s, with 7,917 such pregnancies in 2005.

Among under-18s there were 39,683, up from 39,593 in 2004 and higher than the 35,400 recorded a decade ago in 1995.

Girls as young as 12 are given the morning-after pill - without parents' knowledge
~~~~~~~~~~

Other sources;

'Girls, 12, get morning-after pill' without parents knowledge

Morning-after pill 'given to 12-year-olds'

[Shammu]

Megachurches Targeted for Pro-Gay Campaign
By Nathan Black
Christian Post Reporter
Mon, Dec. 03 2007 04:49 PM ET

Two homosexual groups plan to launch a national campaign targeting the most influential megachurches and its leaders in an attempt to change their views on gays and lesbians.

Soulforce, which promotes "pro-gay" interpretations of Scripture, and COLAGE (Children of Lesbians and Gays Everywhere) are currently recruiting LGBT (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) parents and their children along with other supporters for "The American Family Outing" in 2008. Selected families will visit six major megachurches to "educate" the public on the issue of homosexuality.

"Through our visibility we hope to peacefully challenge the false stereotypes about LGBT people and same-gender families, and educate the public through authentic and personal conversations - real parents sharing their stories and describing the hurtful effects of prejudice and religious condemnation," said a statement describing the national campaign, which will run from Mother's Day weekend in May through Father's Day weekend in June.

Churches being targeted are those led by Joel Osteen, Bishop T.D. Jakes, Dr. Rick Warren, Bishop Harry Jackson, Jr., Bill Hybels and Bishop Eddie Long. Along with most Christian leaders, all have expressed to some degree an opposition to the homosexual lifestyle.

Soulforce contends that these younger generation evangelical leaders "are striving to change the tone of the national political debate with messaging that is less punitive, therefore making religion-based discrimination seem more palatable to the mainstream American public."

The upcoming campaign comes at a time when more evangelical churches are showing compassion toward the homosexual community. While still rejecting homosexual behavior as sin, Christians are increasingly welcoming and loving homosexuals, departing from the hateful and homophobic labels often attached to churches.

Still, churches continue to struggle with the issue of homosexuality in a culture that is more open to gay and lesbian lifestyles.

Participants of The American Family Outing plan to attend a worship service at each of the megachurches and also request time for panel discussions and a chance to engage in informal conversations with congregants of the churches.

Before the visits, 40 recruited families are required to attend a weekend of training in Austin, Texas, in February to prepare for theological dialogue and nonviolent direct action.

Megachurches Targeted for Pro-Gay Campaign

[Shammu]

God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him, shall not perish, but have everlasting life. Jesus paid the death penalty that our sin incurred. Including the sin of homosexuality. In God's eyes this is an abomination, that the creatures that He created in His image, would act in such an unholy manner.

God loves all His creation, when He created man in His image, it was for man to reflect His Glory, when we wade in sin, any sin this does not reflect the glory of GOD!! We are the TEMPLE of the LIVING GOD, when we repent and give ourselves to Him, we are not longer our own, we are bought with a price.

The enemy is always trying to steal God's glory and what better way then to cause people to think they can come to God any way they choose to. God has shown us the way to come to Him and that is through The Cross and Jesus Christ.

However my beloved brethren, we need to be careful what we are approving of. God does not tolerate sin in any fashion. HIS Son paid a very high price for sin. We need to confess with our mouths the EVIL that we do in HIS sight and ask HIM to give us HIS strength to leave the life of sin we have been in.

We are works in progress, no one is perfect, but JESUS can and does REDEEM, many from the lie of homosexuality. Satan has stolen the identities of many, convincing them this is what they are, when it is a lie, we are children of God.

Don't let anyone steal from you what GOD has ordained for His children. We live in very dark times, as the Light of Christ comes closer the darkness gets greater!!

I wonder what will happen when Soulforce tries this to islam.................. 

[Soldier4Christ]

Surgeon: Lifestyle issues may have harmed safe procedure
Ed Thomas OneNewsNow.comDecember 5, 2007 surgery scene

Four recipients of organ transplants in three Chicago hospitals were recently informed they had received HIV and Hepatitis C viral infections from a single donor. One of the country's foremost surgeons says the news highlights the still-present risk of organ transplants, and the ethical practices that must accompany the procedure.

According to one official from the United Network for Organ Sharing, a case of HIV transmission from a donor to a recipient has not been documented since 1994. Doctors also point out a much-improved screening test for infectious health conditions. So what was different this time?

Kansas surgeon Dr. David Pauls has performed transplants and also serves on the ethics board of the Christian Medical & Dental Associations. He says according to news reports, there was no follow-up testing after the transplant surgery for nearly 10 months -- and there are now questions about the lifestyle risks of the donor, which may have been known by physicians.

"There have been allegations made right now that the patient who was the organ donor may not have been an appropriate organ donor and had high-risk lifestyle issues," says Pauls. He suggests that even though the donor cleared all pre-operative health screenings, if his true lifestyle information was not passed on to recipients for informed consent, it raises serious ethical concerns that may necessitate legal remedies.

In the meantime, Pauls still wants the public to know that aside from the normal risk of any surgery, people in need of organ transplants should still pursue them. He says the procedure is proven to be safe -- if carried out with the normal safeguards.

[Shammu]

Episcopal Church faces possible major defection
Wed Dec 5, 2007 1:35pm EST

By Michael Conlon, Religion Writer

CHICAGO (Reuters) - The U.S. Episcopal Church faces major tumult this week when an entire California diocese with more than 9,000 members decides whether to secede in an unprecedented protest over gay issues.

The Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin, based in Fresno and consisting of nearly 50 churches in 14 counties, would be the first diocese to bolt from the U.S. branch of the 77-million-member global Anglican Communion if Saturday's final vote passes.

The U.S. church and Anglicanism generally have been in upheaval since 2003 when the Episcopal Church consecrated Gene Robinson of New Hampshire as the first bishop known to be in an openly gay relationship in more than four centuries of church history.

Dissent over that as well as the blessing of same-sex unions practiced in some congregations has caused a number of defections by traditionalists in the U.S. church.

The 2.4 million-member U.S. church says that out of 7,600 congregations 32 have left, meaning that a majority of members of those congregations have departed and the churches are now considered closed. Another 23 have voted to leave, meaning that significant number of members have said they want to leave.

None of the church's 110 dioceses, however, has taken the final step to depart so far. Dioceses in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Fort Worth, Texas, have also taken preliminary votes to leave, but their final decisions are a year away.

Bishop John-David Schofield, head of the San Joaquin Diocese, says leaving the U.S. church is "a sensible way forward" and one that could later be reversed if "circumstances change and the Episcopal Church repents."

In the meantime his diocese has received what he calls a "welcome" invitation to realign itself, should the vote be affirmative, with the Anglican Church of the Southern Cone of South America headed by conservative Archbishop Gregory Venables of Argentina.

That, he said, will allow members to remain part of the global Anglican church.

'REMAIN EPISCOPAL'

A year ago the San Joaquin Diocese's preliminary vote to leave the Episcopal Church was overwhelming. The process requires two votes year apart.

But a secession would not be unanimous. An organization called "Remain Episcopal" is opposing it and says its members will remain in place as the duly recognized Episcopal Church even if the bishop, some clergy and other congregants leave.

Katharine Jefferts Schori, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church, urged Schofield in a letter earlier this week not to pull his flock out, saying "the church will never change if dissenters withdraw from the table."

She also made it clear what would happen if he did: A process that could eventually allow her to "depose" the bishop, declare the diocese vacant and allow those who want to remain to form a new church leadership.

The Episcopal Church also says it has control over all property and once a congregation leaves it has to find another place to worship. That contention has been challenged in several court cases, including one in Virginia where property dating back to Colonial times and worth millions of dollars is in dispute.

A spokeswoman for the San Joaquin Diocese said the property issue had yet to be addressed.

Episcopal Church faces possible major defection

[Shammu]

Pope approves Lourdes indulgences
6 December 2007

Pope Benedict XVI has authorised special indulgences to mark the 150th anniversary of the Virgin Mary's reputed appearance at Lourdes.

Catholics visiting the site within a year of 8 December will be able to receive an indulgence, which the Church teaches can reduce time in purgatory.

Lourdes has drawn pilgrims since Mary was said to have appeared in 1858 to shepherdess Bernadette Soubirous.

The waters of the French shrine are said to have miraculous healing powers.

The Pope is expected to visit the shrine next year.

The pontiff also said believers who prayed at places of worship dedicated to Our Lady of Lourdes from 2-11 February next year - or who were unable to make the journey - would also be able to receive indulgences.

The decree was signed by US Cardinal J Francis Stafford, who is head of the Apostolic Penitentiary, a Vatican court dealing with indulgences and matters of conscience.

Indulgences became infamous in the 16th century for being sold rather than earned, helping, historians say, trigger the Protestant reformation.

While some might consider indulgences an outdated concept, great spiritual importance have been assigned to them by Benedict XVI and his predecessor, Pope John Paul II.

Pope approves Lourdes indulgences