Who Is Your Apostle?

[Reba]

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie and Reba,

Here's another example of semantics.

Is it:

to argue?

for argument?

UM?, it seems as if they say the same thing, but maybe it is worthy of debate.

Maybe we could change the question. How about:

Which is the longer word, argue or argument?

UM?, but it has the same root word, maybe that could be debated. I guess we could debate form, tense, and usage.

I think when we all got to the end it would seem silly, and it is.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

By these standards is person starting this thread silly? and all those who respond? Or only those who see scripture in a light different then anothers who may agree wiht the poster? What of most threads? If detailed discussion of scripture is not to ones liking why "belong" to forum?

 One could simply post a thread then lock it no arguement no semantics.  Post like the one above closes thought and responces I would ask  is that  warrented? and why?

So i see a statment of  agree with me or dont post  is that  what you want Tom?  You as a moderator can  say to me in an open forum dont post if you dont agree with me and i will  remove the forum from my favorites and be gone. Please Tom be stright forward, dont beat around the bush. IF you truly dont want an oposing view in "your" forum say so directly.


I am not sure of  who is who around here and am sending a copy to admin.

[Reba]

 Re:Who Is Your Apostle? I do (not) see how this report  works  but  i am trying to report  what i term as heavy handedness by  Tom the moderatior. The offending post is at the  Who is your apostle thread. Please in public form respond.


This is the note i sent to the (report site) i did  make  spelling corections and  added the word NOT.

[nChrist]

Re:Who Is Your Apostle? I do (not) see how this report  works  but  i am trying to report  what i term as heavy handedness by  Tom the moderatior. The offending post is at the  Who is your apostle thread. Please in public form respond.


This is the note i sent to the (report site) i did  make  spelling corections and  added the word NOT.

Oklahoma Howdy to Reba,

I got your complaint. There was nothing harsh or heavy handed about the simple statement I made. It's an argument over nothing, simple as semantics. It's really kind of sad that you would get upset over someone pointing this out.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Reba]

To you it may well be a arguement of semantics. To me it is a discussion of  dividing of Gods people.  I do not think HE wants HIS own divided. that is my  opinion you are surly welcome to yours. Saying the word of God is sematical goes clear back to the garden.  A little leaven goes a long way.

[Reba]

1 Cor 1:11-13
11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
KJV

[2nd Timothy]

Not trying to do a one off and end debate here, but it seems to me rather than there being 2 choices, there is really only one.

My Apostle is Christ who is sent from the father.

John 1:14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NIV)

This is who I choose.

Grace and Peace!

[Reba]

Not trying to do a one off and end debate here, but it seems to me rather than there being 2 choices, there is really only one.

My Apostle is Christ who is sent from the father.

John 1:14
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
(NIV)

This is who I choose.

Grace and Peace!

 Way cool Tim !

[Allinall]

Oh dear...I have just a few things to say here, in love, but possibly pointed.

A4C - When I first read this post, I thought "I follow Christ."  Semantically, the apostle sent for my benefit would be Paul.  I am a Gentile.  But I must ask this brother - to what benefit is this question asked?  To what form of edification?  

Guys, I really think that sometimes we fail to think before we post, myself included.  This post reeks of such an approach.  Reba and Ollie have jumped on the very thing that struck me at first, even though I did understand the semantical point.  Now, in defense of a very real truth, they have become the object of discord.  We are going to argue this point!  But why?  Are we not Christ's?  Are we not His followers?  Paul was sent for my benefit - but did he bleed for me?  Did he take my sins?  Am I his, or is he mine?  No.  Christ is, was, and did.

My point is simply this: we need to begin building each other with our posts.  Yes, there will always be those who disagree, and will argue every point posted, but our posts can be for the benefit of the reader.  Was this truly beneficial?

[Brother Love]

I myself only have "ONE" Apostle, and he is Paul.

There are 2 choices. Peter and the 11 or Paul. Peter was sent to Israel. Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Peter preached a coming kingdom. Paul preached a leaving body (rapture). Peter preached works for salvation. Paul preached grace for salvation. Peter says keep the law. Paul says you cannot keep the law. Peter says don’t eat catfish. Paul says eat all things. Peter says meet on Saturday. Paul says meet on Sunday. Peter preached you must be water baptized. Paul preached you do not need water baptism. Peter preached sell all you have and God will take care of you. Paul preached if you do not work you do not eat. Peter preached the cross as a curse to Israel. Paul preached the curse removed. Peter never says he is the pattern for the Gentiles. Paul says he is the pattern for the Gentiles.

Who is your apostle? Until the rapture of the church – Paul is.

AMEN!!!!

"Grace & Peace"

Brother Love

[Allinall]

Slight nitpickiness here, but...

Peter preached a coming kingdom.

Peter was sent to the Jews.  His message was valid.  Christ preached the same message to the same people.

Peter preached works for salvation.

Chapter and verse?  Peter was an apostle to the Jews, not an accursed non-believer.  He did not preach a works based salvation.  Peter, like every Jew, Paul included, had issues with dropping the Law.  For Paul I believe it was easier, as he had made the Law his salvation.  Paul saw the sharp contrast and readily accepted putting it away.  The others, though understanding what salvation was, and preaching that gospel accordingly, still hung on to practices that were habit.  Peter liked his hamburgers too!  This is why Paul "withstood him to the face."  Peter was saying one thing and practicing another.  He was acquiescing to the Judiazers - not promoting them.

Paul says eat all things.

Paul said all things were lawful to him, but that if eating meat caused his brother to offend, that he would eat no meat.

Peter preached you must be water baptized. Paul preached you do not need water baptism.

Peter was obedient to the great commission given by his Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Paul practiced the very thing you say he did not preach.  Here's an interesting point: as baptism has no salvific grace whatsoever, what then is the point?  Why then was it so prominent in Jewish culture, but not so prominent in Gentile culture?  Circumsion was the outward sign of the old covenant.  Baptism is the outward sign of the new covenant.  No grace.  Just identification.  Peter and Paul were in accord on this matter.  Perhaps you should follow suit?

Peter preached sell all you have and God will take care of you. Paul preached if you do not work you do not eat.

Peter preached sell what you have and take care of your brothers and sisters in Christ.  It is God Who provides for need, so why hoard treasures unto yourselves?  Paul preached we must work, so that we might have that with which to give.  Unity, yet again.

Peter preached the cross as a curse to Israel. Paul preached the curse removed.

The Law stated:

And if a man has committed a crime punishable by death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, his body shall not remain all night on the tree, but you shall bury him the same day, for a hanged man is cursed by God. You shall not defile your land that the LORD your God is giving you for an inheritance.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23

Peter preached:

But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus, whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Acts 5:29-32

and again:

So Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him. As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all), you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed: how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.  And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

Acts 10:34-43

And to whom did Peter preach this message?  Cornelius.  A Gentile.  As for Paul:

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"-- so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:10-14

Now I could be wrong, but it appears that Peter preached Jesus was hung on a tree for our sins, and Paul preached that the very curse of being hung on a tree was one Christ took upon Himself to remove the curse of the law for us.

There are blanket statements being made ignorantly to support a very valid truth - Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles.  But Paul was never sent to be followed, rather to be an exemplary follower:

For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.  I urge you, then, be imitators of me.  That is why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.

1 Corinthians 4:15-17

He pointed constantly to Christ, through his example and through God's word.

[Brother Love]

One more time:

I myself only have "ONE" Apostle, and he is Paul.

There are 2 choices. Peter and the 11 or Paul. Peter was sent to Israel. Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Peter preached a coming kingdom. Paul preached a leaving body (rapture). Peter preached works for salvation. Paul preached grace for salvation. Peter says keep the law. Paul says you cannot keep the law. Peter says don’t eat catfish. Paul says eat all things. Peter says meet on Saturday. Paul says meet on Sunday. Peter preached you must be water baptized. Paul preached you do not need water baptism. Peter preached sell all you have and God will take care of you. Paul preached if you do not work you do not eat. Peter preached the cross as a curse to Israel. Paul preached the curse removed. Peter never says he is the pattern for the Gentiles. Paul says he is the pattern for the Gentiles.

Who is your apostle? Until the rapture of the church – Paul is.

AMEN!!!!

"Grace & Peace"

Brother Love  

P.S. Thanks Brother Allinall

[Allinall]

Your most welcome my brother!  But how can you say "Amen" to things that go against scripture?  

[michael_legna]

Jesus Christ is my Apostle (though I don't actually own Him).
Hebrews 3:1
1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

We should not, and I do not, identify with only one of the seventeen followers of Christ named Apostles because we are warned against that.  I identify with the message of the Gospel expressed by all seventeen and those that followed them.

1 Cor 1:11
11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided?  was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

I am mindful of the message of the Gospel expressed by all seventeen, and those that followed them, as contained in their instructions; as directed by the Scriptures.

2 Peter 3:1
2That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

So I can be a fitting member of the Church

Ephesians 2:19
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

[3wells]

There are 2 choices. Peter and the 11 or Paul.

There are not 2 choices. The Jews did not choose Peter, the gentiles did not choose Paul, and we are not encouraged anywhere in scripture to choose, so why add something that is not written?

[ollie]

I myself only have "ONE" Apostle, and he is Paul.

There are 2 choices. Peter and the 11 or Paul. Peter was sent to Israel. Paul was sent to the Gentiles. Peter preached a coming kingdom. Paul preached a leaving body (rapture). Peter preached works for salvation. Paul preached grace for salvation. Peter says keep the law. Paul says you cannot keep the law. Peter says don’t eat catfish. Paul says eat all things. Peter says meet on Saturday. Paul says meet on Sunday. Peter preached you must be water baptized. Paul preached you do not need water baptism. Peter preached sell all you have and God will take care of you. Paul preached if you do not work you do not eat. Peter preached the cross as a curse to Israel. Paul preached the curse removed. Peter never says he is the pattern for the Gentiles. Paul says he is the pattern for the Gentiles.

Who is your apostle? Until the rapture of the church – Paul is.

AMEN!!!!

"Grace & Peace"

Brother Love

Peter's or Paul's? Your post seems to say two ways to Christ. One for Israel and one for the gentile. Yet Paul says the two are one in Christ though faith in one gospel in one Jesus Christ.

Peter did not set any self patterns but did set God's pattern for the gentiles:
Acts 15:7Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.