The Holy Grail

[Tibby]

This is just a fun poll, see what people think and why! I know the bible doesn’t say a thing about it, what are your thoughts, and why. I intentionally left “Don’t care” out because, lets be honest, no one really CARES what the Grail is made of, it is just a fun topic to talk about.

[Petro]

This is just a fun poll, see what people think and why! I know the bible doesn’t say a thing about it, what are your thoughts, and why. I intentionally left “Don’t care” out because, lets be honest, no one really CARES what the Grail is made of, it is just a fun topic to talk about.

What is a holy grail??

Petro

[aw]

Its a DISH and thus I would venture to say it is a dish with a hole in it. As a holy dish, it would probably be made of glass.

Dunno,

aw

[Tibby]

Petro- I was just being basic. The cup Jesus drank out of at the last supper. Didn't want to say the whole line, so I said "Holy Grail" assuming everyone is an Autherian Fan, and knows what it is. Sorry for the mix up.

Interesting point, aw, but I was just speaking in general. I guess I should have put dish and a option, too.

Ok, What was the Cup or DISH made out of?

[Petro]

My son mentioned to me, there was an indiana jones movie made about this.

Where is the inference that such a dish exists,............drawn from??  the movie..

The scriptures do not speak of such a thing..


Petro

[ebia]

The Holy Grail is a name given to the cup that Jesus & the disciples drank from at the last supper (see Luke 22).

Various ancient legends then have it that this same cup was used to catch His blood when the centurion pieced His side at Calvary.   What happen to it after then diverges in different legends - one such set of legends has it that Joseph of Arimatheia took the cup to Glastonbury, in England (and hence its association with the legends of King Arthur).  Various modern stories, including the Indiana films, have since drawn upon these legends.

[Petro]

The Holy Grail is a name given to the cup that Jesus & the disciples drank from at the last supper (see Luke 22).

Various ancient legends then have it that this same cup was used to catch His blood when the centurion pieced His side at Calvary.   What happen to it after then diverges in different legends - one such set of legends has it that Joseph of Arimatheia took the cup to Glastonbury, in England (and hence its association with the legends of King Arthur).  Various modern stories, including the Indiana films, have since drawn upon these legends.

Make believe!

I had to look this word up.

Websters defines Grail, ML gradalis,Medievel Legendcup, the cup used by Jesus at the last supper.

This sounds like mysticism, again...

What does Luke 22, have to do with a Medievel Legend?

This sound like one for the believe it or not tv series..

No doubt there are religious people in the world that believe such an item exists, just like the Arch, or the burial cloth.

Anybody producing these items claiming they are the real thing can be categorized as frauds, imediately..except by the gullible.

Petro

[Symphony]

There's a rather convincing article in my Hally's Bible Handbook on it.

Seems it's actually a decorative silver goblet, which held the actual drinking cup, long since gone or lost.

I believe one of the museums in the Middle East, maybe in Damascus, has it.

[Tibby]

Petro, it is just a name. Just a term. Don't get all hung up on it. What ever it was, it is long gone by now. This is just a fun topic, with a silly name. I assumed everyone knew the name the Holy grail, and I put it, thinking it would be easier then putting "The cup Jesus drank at his last passover and handed to everyone." Clearly, I was mistaken.

Anyways, I voted Gold or some Precious Metal. Modern movies, no matter how good, don't follow the bible. What next? basic your theology on "dogma"? lol j/k

[ebia]

There's a rather convincing article in my Hally's Bible Handbook on it.

Seems it's actually a decorative silver goblet, which held the actual drinking cup, long since gone or lost.

I believe one of the museums in the Middle East, maybe in Damascus, has it.

Sounds like someone has redefined the term to fit some some item they have in their posession; the grail is supposed to be the cup itself.

[Symphony]

Yes, I know, ebia.  It's quite interesting, actually.  I have the 1963 edition, with a photo of it.  It's quite ornate.  It's called there, "The Chalice of Antioch":

"In 1910 there was found in the ruins of a cathedral on the site of Antioch, a cup, containing an inner cup, that is thought by able scholars possibly to have been the actual cup that Jesus used on that holy night.  The inner cup is a plain silver cup.  The outer cup. of silver, is exquisitely carved with twelve figures, representing Christ and the Apostles.  ...evidently made to hold the inner, as a sacred, precious object older than itself.  The art and workmanship is considered to be of the first century.  The Last Supper is thought probably to have been in the home of Mark's mother.  

"...After fall of Jerusalem, Antioch bacame chief center of Christiandom.  What more natural than that this object, precious beyond measure to Christians, would be kept in a church in Antioch, where, when the church was destroyed, it was buried in the ruins...  It is owned by Mr. Fahim Kouchakji, New York, through whose courtesy a photo is here shown."

So, I was wrong.  They do have both the liner(the original cup) and the chalice.  And, apparently, it is in New York.  At least as of this writing(Halley's Bible Handbook, 1963(sorry), p. 412).

Of course, I DO have a problem imagining that at the last supper, these ordinary fishermen, etc., had a silver cup(that is, the liner of this later, more ornate chalice), from which to drink.  Seems more likely it would have been simply clay earthenware.  

And, would first century Christians, amidst all the persecution, have affixed such concern to an artifact, when what they were talking about was rising from the dead--something much better than artifacts?

The Shroud, the Grail, pieces of the cross--they all smack of superstition and excuses to dodge the realities of what Jesus is really talking about--salvation!!--regardless of whether the artifacts are authentic.

Still, I have to confess, these finds are all highly interesting.

[ebia]

The Shroud, the Grail, pieces of the cross--they all smack of superstition and excuses to dodge the realities of what Jesus is really talking about--salvation!!--regardless of whether the artifacts are authentic.

In fairness, is it so very different from the woman who touched His cloak?

[Jesussavedusall]

Yeah, I think the wood thing was because of the Indiana Jones movie.

And they actually have a picture of it? Wow! that's great!

I hope it isn't one of those fake relics, like how if you go to Europe, which I have, there is enough sacred wood from the True Cross to build 1000 crosses, and there is like a mile in length of St. Peter's chains etc...

[Tibby]

Yeah, I think the wood thing was because of the Indiana Jones movie.

Yeah, that was interesting theory. Jesus was a carpenter, so his cups and bowls will be made of wood. One problem, it wasn’t Jesus’ Cups...

[ebia]

Yeah, I think the wood thing was because of the Indiana Jones movie.

Yeah, that was interesting theory. Jesus was a carpenter, so his cups and bowls will be made of wood. One problem, it wasn’t Jesus’ Cups...

True, but lacking any evidence about whether Mark's mum prefered to buy wooden or pottery cups...

Seriously, though, why would anyone expect it to be made of precious metals?