DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
More From
ChristiansUnite
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite
K
I
D
S
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content
Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:
ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
November 26, 2024, 10:28:06 AM
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
Search:
Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
287029
Posts in
27572
Topics by
3790
Members
Latest Member:
Goodwin
ChristiansUnite Forums
Theology
Prophecy - Current Events
(Moderator:
admin
)
SANE
« previous
next »
Pages:
[
1
]
Author
Topic: SANE (Read 1343 times)
Soldier4Christ
Global Moderator
Gold Member
Offline
Posts: 61165
One Nation Under God
SANE
«
on:
July 24, 2007, 11:01:55 AM »
Some time ago I posted about a newly organized group named SANE (Society of Americans for National Existence). This group wanted to find out if it was true or not that mosques in the U.S. were teaching hatred against non-islamists and promoting the take-over of the U.S. with the replacing the U.S. Constitution with Sharia law.
Just so that you know, this is not just another anti-muslim group. This group consists of Christians, Jews and
Muslims
.
Following are some articles on what they have found so far.
Logged
Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Soldier4Christ
Global Moderator
Gold Member
Offline
Posts: 61165
One Nation Under God
Re: SANE
«
Reply #1 on:
July 24, 2007, 11:03:05 AM »
Private undercover team exposes nationwide network of radical, anti-U.S. Islamic centers
Hundreds of Islamic centers in the United States have become a hot-bed of extremist activity; they promote violence, terrorism and hatred against America.
“Our initial investigation has concluded there are between 400 to 500 radical Islamic centers in the U.S.,” said David Gaubatz, the director of counterintelligence and counterterrorism for the Society of Americans for National Existence. “In those places, they preach an extreme version of Islam that says America and the West is the enemy. They espouse violence, hatred and the need for terrorism.”
Gaubatz is a former senior U.S. intelligence official, who now works for the Mapping Shari’a in America Project (
www.mappingsharia.com
), which is supported by SANE, a national non-profit group devoted to investigating the 2,300 Islamic centers in the U.S. for extremist activity.
Gaubatz and his investigators are currently active and will soon form a team of about 12. They pose as people interested in converting to Islam or who are current Muslims. Their goal is to infiltrate mosques and Muslim centers. Recently, he and his team penetrated the Dar Al-Hijrah Islamic Center, located in Falls Church, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C.
Sporting a beard and Muslim dress, Gaubatz said he went on May 18 to the center, pretending to be an American interested in becoming a convert to Islam. He discovered the center espoused terrorism and jihad against America.
“They are teaching what they call Jihad Qital, which means physical jihad,” Gaubatz said. “They’re teaching violence and hatred of the United States.”
Gaubatz said that he met the two primary clerics at Dar Al-Hijrah, Imam Shaker Elsayed and Imam Johari Abdulmalik. Both men have been trained in Saudi Arabia. He says another key individual is Yusef Estes, an informal senior leader at the center and an internationally influential Muslim scholar who was trained in Saudi Arabia.
“They put me through the process of learning their faith and ideology,” Gaubatz said. “They felt close to me and they gave me literature and CDs. They told me to study. The literature is very Jihad Qital.”
He said that the Islamic center has deep ties to Saudi Arabia and espouses Wahhabism, a virulent and puritanical version of Islam.
“Many members of the mosque provided me literature to study. Most of the literature they gave me was from Saudi Arabia,” he said. “Their literature preaches that America and the West are decadent and evil, and that Muslims have a moral duty to engage in violence against the infidels.”
Gaubatz says that Dar Al-Hijrah and other radical Islamic centers in the U.S. are funded by Saudi Arabia, which is the primary sponsor of the Wahhabist brand of Islam.
“The ultimate goal for those at Dar Al-Hijrah is to instill Sharia law in the U.S. and have America adhere to the Islamic faith,” he said. “They want America to be an Islamic state.”
Gaubatz said that the imams at the center encouraged him to read the works of their “friends”—some of whom have been convicted for terrorism-related activities. According to Gaubatz, one of those “friends” he was encouraged to read is Ali Al-Tamimi, a radical Islamist author, who was convicted of inciting terrorism in connection with the Virginia Jihad Network.
Al-Tamimi was born and raised in the U.S., and then as a teenager went to Saudi Arabia to study Islam. He lectured often at the Center for Islamic Information and Education in Falls Church, Virginia. He was a founding member of the center, which is also known as Dar al-Arqam.
The Virginia Jihad Network was a group of radical Islamists who were charged with engaging in terrorist plots. Nine members of the group were convicted of using and possessing various weapons, rocket-propelled grenades and explosives.
Al-Tamimi was later convicted of being the spiritual leader of the group and of having encouraged them to wage Jihad on the U.S.
Gaubatz maintains that he and his team of field workers at the Mapping Shari’a in America Project are not only focusing on major metropolitan areas. Although there is plenty of Islamist activity in cities such as Detroit, Dearborn, Michigan and Washington, he says radical Muslims are also establishing education and religious centers in small towns.
“They’re branching out and teaching the Jihadist ideology in small towns across America, especially in rural areas in places like Virginia, North Carolina and South Carolina,” Gaubatz said.
He says that a terrorist atrocity on U.S. soil similar to what happened on 9/11 is inevitable unless Americans take decisive measures.
“If we let our guard down, another 9/11—maybe even something worse—is going to happen again,” he said. “We need to be proactive rather than reactive.”
Gaubatz says that his investigative team is composed of individuals of various faiths, whose goal is to protect the American homeland from Islamic extremism.
“We have a team consisting of Christians, Jews and Muslims—there are several Muslims, in fact, on our team—who go undercover and try to penetrate radical mosques in this country,” he said. “This is not about being anti-Muslim. It is about being anti-extremism, anti-Jihadism and anti-terrorism.
“Our mission is to get at the truth—to find out the truth about what’s really going on in our country.”
Logged
Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Soldier4Christ
Global Moderator
Gold Member
Offline
Posts: 61165
One Nation Under God
Re: SANE
«
Reply #2 on:
July 24, 2007, 11:17:59 AM »
Will the Islamic terrorists wage war inside the U.S.?
In the weeks following our announcement that Dave Gaubatz, SANE’s Director of Intelligence & Counter-terrorism (CT) Studies, had been appointed the Director of the Mapping Shari’a in America project, we have been inundated with questions of concern from our members and from the general public asking, “Is it really possible that Islamic terrorists will wage war inside the U.S.”?
The short answer is Islamic terrorists have been waging war within the U.S. for a number of years and will continue to do so. A more detailed answer will follow, but all Americans must understand that the explanation of why and how Muslims fight wars is very different from the traditional understanding and approach of war we have as Americans.
To clarify, it should be noted that the “public” descriptions of war used by Muslims in the West, also known as dar al-Kufr (the land of the infidels), will be quite different from those articulated in the Islamic world, or dar al-Islam (the land of submission). What you will learn in this short essay is decidedly not what you will read about in the main stream media or what you will hear from the Muslim leadership in America when they call their press conferences or otherwise communicate with Americans in English. What you will learn here comes from our Director, Dave Gaubatz, based upon his more than two decades of experience dealing with terrorism threats both here and in the Middle East as an air force special agent and as the first non-military federal special agent on the ground in Iraq during the run up to the war and the early months after hostilities began.
Let’s go behind the closed doors of the Arabic-speaking world where Dave Gaubatz has spent so much of his professional CT career.
War as described by Muslims: By Dave Gaubatz
The war of Jihad is directed against the infidel.
The infidel is any non-Muslim who either resists Islamic conversion or who refuses to be subordinate to the Muslim ruler or government. In other words, the infidel must abide by the Koran and the guidance that was allegedly provided by the “prophet” Muhammad. This “guidance” consists of Islamic law or Shari’a and while it varies from one Muslim sect to another, from one school of Islamic jurisprudence (or fiqh) to another, it is amazingly consistent when it comes to the treatment of the infidel and Jihad. (While it is true that a Muslim can be condemned as an infidel if he violates certain Islamic precepts, we focus here on Islam’s war against the non-Muslim world.)
Now, one might suppose that if the infidel lives in his own land (like the US) and does not bother the Muslims in their own lands he should be able to live in relative security and without the worry that he will come under attack in a Jihad against the enemies of Islam. In other words, if we in the West would but mind our own business and leave the Muslim world alone, the Muslim world will leave us alone.
Indeed, we often hear this line from both Muslims and the so-called “isolationists” (i.e., Pat Buchanan) who would like the rest of us to accept on faith that the only complaint the Islamic world has against the West is our intrusion into their world. To adopt this fallacy would be a tragic miscalculation for several reasons, besides the fact that it is seldom a good idea to adopt a national defense posture based upon any fallacy.
One, any infidel nation that exists anywhere in what the Muslims consider part of dar al-Islam is subject to the “guidance” of Islam. In other words, any nation whose borders fall within the territory determined to be part of the Islamic world pursuant to Islamic law must follow Islamic law. This means quite simply that no infidel could possible rule over Muslims or have any meaningful participation in the government if they live in what is determined to be the land of Islam. Further, even if the infidels are prepared to live peacefully under Muslim rule, if the infidels are not prepared to convert to Islam, they must pay a special “submission” tax which demonstrates their inferior status. While the ruling Caliph, or Islamic leader, might forego this tax, it is wholly within his discretion.
While Islamic jurisprudence varies on what lands fall within dar al-Islam, it is certainly the case that any nation where a majority of Muslims live or where Muslims currently rule is very much a part of dar al-Islam. This means that all of the Middle East and South Asia (i.e., Pakistan and Afghanistan) are part of the Islamic world subject to Shari’a.
The question then becomes what of Israel, since it has neither a Muslim majority nor is it ruled by Muslims? This is where we begin to understand that dar al-Islam includes any lands previously ruled by Muslims, including North Africa and parts of Europe including France and Spain. While it is true that Israel is unique in that it includes al Quds (Jerusalem) and the Dome of the Rock, the third holiest site in Islam, the inclusion of all of what the Arabs call Palestine and not just Jerusalem into the ubiquitous Islamic claim over all of Israel, provides good evidence that the Islamic world is understood by Muslims to be far more expansive than one might think and includes any territory now or any time in the past under Islamic sway.
This explains why religious Muslims, notably Hamas and Islamic Jihad, will never accept the “Saudi Plan” or the “Road Map” or the “Rabin-Peres-Arafat Peace Process” because to accept an infidel state within dar al-Islam would itself be a rejection of Islamic law and this in turn would require an indictment (fatwa) against any Muslim who would accept such a “peace”. And, unlike an indictment in the West, a fatwa allows any Muslim anywhere to anoint himself judge, jury and executioner and to exact capital punishment on the spot.
That of course explains why Arafat refused Israeli Prime Minister Barak’s offer at Camp David and why the Clintonistas were shocked and angered by his obstinacy. They simply did not understand Islam they way Muslims understand it. If the Peace Process were to actually result in a de jure Jewish or any infidel state in dar al-Islam, it would mean the death of the Arab who signed the agreement. Anwar Sadat provides Exhibit I in this case.
This also explains why Hezbollah-Iran will not end their aggression in Lebanon until they have wrested full control over Lebanon from the Christians. While Lebanon used to be controlled by a majority of Christians, this demographic has changed to a minority status after more than two decades of murders, rapes, and Christian flight.
The argument, however, might still be made that if the US, which has neither been ruled over by Muslims nor been home to more than a small percentage of Muslims, were not only to abandon the Middle East and the rest of dar al-Islam, but also avoid any further support of the Jewish State, we Americans might in fact escape the war against the infidels and live in peace with Muslims, including those already residing in America.
While SANE does not advocate US aid to Israel for reasons wholly unrelated to Jihad, the real question is, Can the US remove itself from Islam’s Jihad against the West?
The simple answer again comes from Shari’a or Islamic law for only Islamic law defines Jihad – not the Elite multi-culturalists and not the Buchananites. And, the answer to this question is unambiguous. Islamic Jihad includes the non-Muslim West for three reasons. The first and principle reason for the Jihad against the West is that Muhammad demanded that the Muslim world extend its control and the law of Islam to the entire civilized world. That is why the land of the infidels is also referred to as dar al-Harb or the Land of War. It is a land of war because Islamic law “opens” these places to the truth of Islam even if they must be pried open violently by the sword.
cont'd
Logged
Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Soldier4Christ
Global Moderator
Gold Member
Offline
Posts: 61165
One Nation Under God
Re: SANE
«
Reply #3 on:
July 24, 2007, 11:18:18 AM »
The only question becomes whether Muslims as individuals or as a collective should fight this war through open violence, murder and mayhem or discreetly through persuasion, politics, and subterfuge. In truth, all of these methods are allowed by Islamic law. Thus, Muslims should first attempt to convert the non-Muslim world through peaceful persuasion. If this fails, then by coercion. And, finally, if Muslims are able to wage a war where victory is a realistic possibility, then by war.
If, however, Muslims understand that victory is not possible through open hostilities, a Muslim is permitted and indeed required to continue the Jihad but through temporary treaties and even deceptions in order to gain ground. This is what we call the “democratic Jihad”. The moment war becomes possible, it is again an option.
It is on this latter strategic point – whether active warfare on the US Homeland is effective to achieve their ends -- that the active terrorists and the more passive “law abiding” Muslims differ. But make no mistake about it. They all agree on one thing: at the end of the day, Shari’a – Islamic law – must be established as the law of the land and enforced.
And, it is this “democratic Jihad” that is waged every day in the West, and especially in the US by such organizations as the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). Their goal is the destruction of America as America and to achieve this through an Islamic revolution. They “reject” the terrorism of 9-11 because it is not practical or prudent. But the war aims of bin Laden are not at all different from these American Muslims. Shari’a as the law of the land is a goal that unites all religious and faithful Muslims.
A second reason Americas will not successfully withdraw or separate themselves from the Islamic war against the infidels is the fact that America’s reach is global. The West and all it stands for is too patent and too dominant for Islam to tolerate. As the Shari’a faithful in Iran gain greater arsenals and technological know-how, as the already nuclear states like Pakistan fall to the Shari’a faithful, and as the Chinese, Russians, and North Koreans work in overdrive to gain a leg up on the “arrogant Americans” as the world’s lone superpower by arming the Muslims, the Muslim world will not simply stand-off as the Soviets did during the Cold War. While the Saudi royal family has grown fat and sated by the physical pleasures in this life, their cousins who preach in the madaariss (religious schools) and mosques around the world are far more interested in the world of 70+ virgins where Muhammad will bless them with an everlasting life of pleasure and satisfaction than in the aftereffects of a nuclear holocaust.
Finally, a third reason Americans will remain in this war regardless of their efforts to avoid it is related directly to the grip multi-culturalism has in our society. In other words, there is a not-so-ironic aspect to the freedoms and liberties we grant Muslims in the West. The more we open our doors and our culture to Muslims and the Islamic lifestyle, the greater their claim to demand Shari’a be allowed by law. In other words, the democratic Jihad we have described uses the laws of the land and the absurdity of multi-culturalism to claim the right to impose Islamic law within the Western experience.
So it is that in Canada the move has already been made that Islamic law should be applied in civil and family matters between Muslims. This of course is the same type of argument made by Muslim cab drivers in Minnesota who wish to have Shari’a decide what kinds of service a taxi license actually requires the Muslim drivers to provide to the public and what kind of patrons will be included in the “public” to be serviced. It is the same absurdity that allows a Muslim woman to demand that her driver’s license and passport pictures be taken while she is covered head to toe with but her eyes exposed, or that she be allowed to testify in court in such guise. And as recently highlighted by the fire in New York City which killed many family members housed in the cramped quarters of a Muslim polygamist, de facto religious Muslims already live their lives according to Shari’a irrespective of the laws of the land.
So as multi-culturalists embrace Islam in order to assuage it, the demands by Muslims for the protection of Shari’a will grow commensurately. As the Muslim population increases geometrically with high birth rates, new immigrants and newly converted Muslims from among the disaffected young African American convicts, we can already speculate about a new Right that will appear in the “rights-based order” we have installed in this country in lieu of a political order.
This new Right will be the Right to live as a Muslim under Muslim rule. There will be talk of Islamic “enclaves” and “islands” where the rules of Shari’a will be enforced strictly. Americans will protest and there will be Muslim violence “in response”. In the end, “diplomacy” and “compromise” and “sensitivity” will prevail. Islamic “zones” will be created but only in areas where the residents vote overwhelmingly in favor of such zones. Those opposed will be subject to condemnation proceedings so their presence will not be a “provocation”. The President, quite possibly a Muslim convert, will declare the day a victory for tolerance and pluralism.
This is the democracy Jihad American Muslims wage today. This is the hidden agenda of organizations like CAIR.
The other question often asked of me is, “Among the millions of Muslims already in the US, how many are actually ‘religious’ Shari’a faithful Muslims?”
The answer to this query is twofold. One, far more than you’d care to believe and that is precisely why we have begun the Mapping Shari’a in America: Knowing the Enemy! project. Based upon my experience, I know that there is a growing resurgence and return to core Islamic belief, which includes violent Jihad, among American Muslims. What is more, is that this resurgence is being financed through mosques and day schools receiving millions of dollars directly and indirectly from one of the more extreme sects of Islam -- the Salafist ideology based principally in Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf states. These Muslims are not only fundamentalist and literalists, they look solely to the behavior of Muhammad as recorded in the Koran as a guide to right living. What little moderation the formal schools of Islamic jurisprudence provide, these Wahhabis, as they are derogatorily called, reject even that.
Now, when you keep in mind that Muhammad, according to the Koran, was a violent and murderous pedophile with designs on the entire world, one begins to understand the danger of Jihad in America.
Moreover, all Muslims, including the “moderate” ones, believe that Islam has been at war with infidels since the beginning days of Islam and the Koran. War is a continuous process that includes information gathering, planning for attack, patience and abiding the right moment, and finally the operational phase of direct attacks. Often the stages overlap, but the war will not end until there is a worldwide Islamic State (caliphate) and the Muslim world perceives no threat to their culture or Islam.
The weapons of war for Muslims are threats, instilling fear, humiliation, use of the media and the courts, and of course murder and mayhem.
So are Muslims waging war within America? Yes. There are today many clandestine operations underway throughout many Islamic centers and Islamic organizations. Numerous Muslims have informed me that they are privy to the planning of violent attacks against Americans on American soil. They have confidently predicted that when the time is right America will again be brought to her knees.
It is our goal at SANE to begin the process that will awaken the average American, the Christian American, that we are at war. This is not the war of the Jews in Israel against Islam. If it were so easy, I as a Christian would be the first to say so. But it is not. This war has little to do with Israel. Islam and the Muslims remember well the Crusades and the Crusaders. For them, that war has never ended. And, you will recall, the war did not begin with the Crusader-Christians. It began with the Muslim invasion north into Christian lands. It will only end when we have destroyed all vestiges of Shari’a in the world.
Logged
Joh 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Pages:
[
1
]
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
ChristiansUnite and Announcements
-----------------------------
=> ChristiansUnite and Announcements
-----------------------------
Welcome
-----------------------------
=> About You!
=> Questions, help, suggestions, and bug reports
-----------------------------
Theology
-----------------------------
=> Bible Study
=> General Theology
=> Prophecy - Current Events
=> Apologetics
=> Bible Prescription Shop
=> Debate
=> Completed and Favorite Threads
-----------------------------
Prayer
-----------------------------
=> General Discussion
=> Prayer Requests
=> Answered Prayer
-----------------------------
Fellowship
-----------------------------
=> You name it!!
=> Just For Women
=> For Men Only
=> What are you doing?
=> Testimonies
=> Witnessing
=> Parenting
-----------------------------
Entertainment
-----------------------------
=> Computer Hardware and Software
=> Animals and Pets
=> Politics and Political Issues
=> Laughter (Good Medicine)
=> Poetry/Prose
=> Movies
=> Music
=> Books
=> Sports
=> Television