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Author Topic: Reproach or admonish??  (Read 2811 times)
LdyBluEyez79
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« on: November 04, 2003, 10:56:21 AM »

 Undecided  Greetings fellow believers in Jesus.  I have a concern and a question that I have been thinking about.  As fellow humans I understand that we are suppose to love each other, and in that, we are teach others of their "wrongs" in the sight of the lord.  But recently a fellow brother has been what feels like judgement and criticism (and in a negative manner).  Yes, I take it for the Lord working through him to change some of my old fleshly behaviors, but does it have to be too the point where he is killing my joy?  Can someone please give me some scripture on how to biblically approach others to "edify," "exhort," our fellow people?  Also some verses that explain the compassion, understanding, and love that we can exemplify?Huh

Thank you for your time   Smiley

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Tibby
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2003, 12:50:24 PM »

I'm sorry, but can you go into any more detail? My first instinct is to say he should show more love and less judgment, but we only know a small piece, he could very well be doing what is best for you. Or, he could just me a jerk. Either way, we canít know without more details. Different circumstances call for different things. Different sins are to be dealt with differently. A Child who lies about  spilling a glass of kool-aid on mommy's new white dress should not dealt with the same as a homicidal rapist, right? What exactly is he criticizing you for? How does he go about doing this criticism? You donít have to go into that much detail, but, if you recall the case in 1 Corinthians 5, different sins call for different treatment. Fleshy behaviors could mean a lot of things, as can "Killing my Joy." Kill Joys can be both good and bad in the church, it all depends on what "joy" they are killing. The "joy" of raising your hands in praise, or the "joy" of getting drunk, it is all relative to the situation.


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LdyBluEyez79
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2003, 01:48:46 PM »

Well, some examples...  If I listen to certain music, talk about certain things, if I watch certain movies.  I understand that yes they are worldly things, and not all leave a bad report in my mind, nor in others, but the are worldly things.  

So okay, I accept that when he tells me about those things.  But when I find him doing/watching/listening to his taste of entertainment.  I guess we could call it somewhat hypocritical and I want to point out to him exactly what he tried to point out to me.  But I guess that wouldn't be very lady-like.  

I just want to be able to back up why:

1-it is okay a person to edify another, when they have their own issues to lok at first.

2-murmuring and/or name calling is not God-like

3-it is okay to appreciate certain worldly things (if it is okay), because we are human and need to balance both the spirit and the world.  Just appreciating--not worshipping.

Without sounding like I don't appreciate the teachings and understandings of growing and becoming a better woman of God.  

If that makes sense??  I can go into more detail, but that would take up a lot of time and space.  If there are any other questions that would help you help me, please let me know...

I'm sorry, but can you go into any more detail? My first instinct is to say he should show more love and less judgment, but we only know a small piece, he could very well be doing what is best for you. Or, he could just me a jerk. Either way, we canít know without more details. Different circumstances call for different things. Different sins are to be dealt with differently. A Child who lies about  spilling a glass of kool-aid on mommy's new white dress should not dealt with the same as a homicidal rapist, right? What exactly is he criticizing you for? How does he go about doing this criticism? You donít have to go into that much detail, but, if you recall the case in 1 Corinthians 5, different sins call for different treatment. Fleshy behaviors could mean a lot of things, as can "Killing my Joy." Kill Joys can be both good and bad in the church, it all depends on what "joy" they are killing. The "joy" of raising your hands in praise, or the "joy" of getting drunk, it is all relative to the situation.


Chris
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Tibby
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2003, 04:34:47 PM »

I THINK I get what you are saying. As have a guy like that at our church. He has this attitude of moral superiority, and whenever someone does something he doesnít like, he will scorn you. He is the only one who knows what is right, and the rest of us are ignorance fool who need him. Meanwhile, we is a Huge anime fan, comic fan, and listens to less then Christian music. Sure he is 21 and still canít get into Junior college, but that still makes him wiser then all who have lived. He has angered more people into leaving the Church then he has saved with his holier-then-thou attitude.

Is that the kind of person you are dealing with? If that is the case, sometimes you just have to tell him to shut up and ignore him the rest of the time. Chances are everyone agrees with you.
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LdyBluEyez79
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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2003, 07:19:48 PM »

Thank you Tibby for your responses..

Yes, sounds a lot like him.  Sometimes I think that he is very insecure in who he is, so he lashes out at me and/or others.  But I do take some of the things he says for good.  But I just want him to understand that even though we try to be holy, we are human.  We are not God.  He is going on 24 now.  

I am going on 24 as well and haven't really stood up for what I believe in and put my foot down for what I have learned throughout my time here.  (Maybe he is taking advantage of that)  Yes, some of the things are bad (and now I recognize that).  So I am taking this as a lesson from the Lord that I need to use the tongue that the Lord has given me.  But I don't want to sound foolish or put my foot in my mouth.

I like him, but I can't let that get in the way of what the Lord wants for me.  And he holds that against me as well.  But I guess this is just a relationship issue...  But situations like this seem to arise often in my life, so I need to know how to handle them in a wise and respectful manner.  So if you have any scripture, I would really appreciate it...   Smiley

Thank you, once again.
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Tibby
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2003, 08:33:56 PM »

A lot of people like that donít ever change. Once they get this kind of mindset, it becomes an ego thing. I would take an extremely humbling act of God to turn this kind of personís attitude down, and it finds its source in pride, and pride in men is VERY strong. But at least get him to treat you like a creature of God, not a house pet.

What me and another friend had to do, if he was ever in the car with us, and he would start to play this game, we would tell him ďListen, I donít need to hear you condemnation, so either shut up, or get out of my car.Ē He hasnít said anything to either of us since then about these things. Just let him know you donít take that crap. Some people donít have much tact, and there is an inside chance he might be one of them.

Verses, now that is a tough one. So many. How Matthew 10 where Jesus tells us to be a gentle as doves? Galatians 5 has a list of The fruits of the spirit like love, kindness, gentleness. Sorry, that is all I can think of off the top. I guess you can try to kindness ask him to please be nice. Sit him down and tell him he is a great guy, but it hurts you when he treats you like that. And if that doesnít melt his heart, maybe some verses on gentleness will help. If not, then really put your foot down. Tell him youíve asked him nicely, and he will not stop, so now he has the choice of stop asking like that, or he can just stop talking you all together. And mean it when you say it. If it doesnít work, ignore him. And of course, pray is a big thing. We Christians are known for being hard headed. lol, thatís why we need God so much. Grin
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2003, 06:01:55 AM »

Quote
1-it is okay a person to edify another, when they have their own issues to lok at first.

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,"  Ephesians 4:11-12
God gave us each of these individuals to equip each of us to edify one another.  We are to do so.

Quote
2-murmuring and/or name calling is not God-like

"Do all things without murmurings and disputings:"  Philippians 2:14

Quote
it is okay to appreciate certain worldly things (if it is okay), because we are human and need to balance both the spirit and the world.  Just appreciating--not worshipping.

"All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things build up."  1 Corinthians 10:23
There need be no balance of the spirit and the world.  Remember, we are His and we are bought with a price.  However, to view everything in the world as wrong goes in the face of what Paul teaches.  It's not a question of what's ok, but rather, what's best.

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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2003, 06:05:52 AM »

Quote
1-it is okay a person to edify another, when they have their own issues to lok at first.

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,"  Ephesians 4:11-12
God gave us each of these individuals to equip each of us to edify one another.  We are to do so.

Quote
2-murmuring and/or name calling is not God-like

"Do all things without murmurings and disputings:"  Philippians 2:14

Quote
it is okay to appreciate certain worldly things (if it is okay), because we are human and need to balance both the spirit and the world.  Just appreciating--not worshipping.

"All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things build up."  1 Corinthians 10:23
There need be no balance of the spirit and the world.  Remember, we are His and we are bought with a price.  However, to view everything in the world as wrong goes in the face of what Paul teaches.  It's not a question of what's ok, but rather, what's best.



Right On!!!!

I agree 100%

Brother Love Smiley
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Allinall
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2003, 06:38:02 AM »

Amen brother!
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LdyBluEyez79
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2003, 01:55:24 PM »

Quote
1-it is okay a person to edify another, when they have their own issues to look at first.

"And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,"  Ephesians 4:11-12
God gave us each of these individuals to equip each of us to edify one another.  We are to do so.

Can you explain to me why or why not it is okay for people to be a jerk when they edify?  And yes it probably is The Lord working through them to make us grow as people.  But sometimes I feel like the people (specifically this one guy) get too full of themselves and feel like they can speak to people to create contention (purposely or not).  I am a very openminded person and am willing to listen, repent, and avoid evil.  I understand that Jesus didn't fall into any persons mind games.  But I am a growing/new Christian, but that doesn't give certain people the open door to try to disrupt the peace that would already be there.  If that makes sense..

Quote
it is okay to appreciate certain worldly things (if it is okay), because we are human and need to balance both the spirit and the world.  Just appreciating--not worshipping.

"All things are lawful, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful, but not all things build up."  1 Corinthians 10:23
There need be no balance of the spirit and the world.  Remember, we are His and we are bought with a price.  However, to view everything in the world as wrong goes in the face of what Paul teaches.  It's not a question of what's ok, but rather, what's best.
[/color]

Can you explain how a growing Christian is suppose to live on Earth, and glorify the temple which The Lord God gave His children, without thanking The Lord for the beautiful things that He has created?  I fully accept the fact that He gave, and He can take away.  And that we are to look past this world and look towards Heaven to be with Him.  But how are we to disregard the people and the marvels He has created?
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« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2003, 02:18:38 PM »

God does not ask us to ignore His wonderful creation! It is a testament to His power and glory and love! We must "love one another". We are told to "care for [our] beasts." We are flesh, and very much a part of this world! But our spirits are longing for His second coming, for the new heavens and new earth.

We must not abuse our freedoms in Christ; we must do all things for the glory of God. But this does not mean that we cannot appreciate what He has blessed us with.

Ascetics (sp?) believe that our flesh must be cruelly restricted and denied, so our souls can be free to worship. This is not what God tells us to do. I'm not totally sure what your difficulties are, BlueEyz, but if this helps in any way to answer or confirm your posts...
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« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2003, 04:43:52 AM »

Quote
Can you explain to me why or why not it is okay for people to be a jerk when they edify?  And yes it probably is The Lord working through them to make us grow as people.  But sometimes I feel like the people (specifically this one guy) get too full of themselves and feel like they can speak to people to create contention (purposely or not).  I am a very openminded person and am willing to listen, repent, and avoid evil.  I understand that Jesus didn't fall into any persons mind games.  But I am a growing/new Christian, but that doesn't give certain people the open door to try to disrupt the peace that would already be there.  If that makes sense..

Can't explain why it would be right, because it wouldn't!  Remember..."speaking the truth in love."  Sometimes love does hurt, but that doesn't mean others have to be hurtful/jerky in the delivery of that truth.  Smiley  As for contention seekers...what can you do about them?  Really!  The thing I like about how Jesus always dealt with people was how He did so personally.  That is, He dealt with them not with the others.  Take the woman caught in adultery for example.  The men bring her to Jesus and express a perfectly lawful dealing with her sin!  And Jesus tells them, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."  I love that!  Why?  Because it didn't matter what the woman did so far as the life of the man holding the stone was concerned.  What mattered was his life, and his response to her sin.  It's the same with you and these contentiously jerky people!  It's what you do that Jesus is concerned with.  Difficult?  Yup!  Thank God you don't have to face it alone.   Smiley

Quote
Can you explain how a growing Christian is suppose to live on Earth, and glorify the temple which The Lord God gave His children, without thanking The Lord for the beautiful things that He has created?  I fully accept the fact that He gave, and He can take away.  And that we are to look past this world and look towards Heaven to be with Him.  But how are we to disregard the people and the marvels He has created?

Hmmm...the temple He gave us is us.  We are the temple now according to the bible.  Can we then be thankful for what God has created?  YES!!!  I do, and am amazed everytime I see the stars at night...stars put there for me to see His express glory.  Are we to disregard people, things, or marvels He has made?  No.  Are those people, things or marvels ever to be the focus of our regard?  NO!!!  He is to be our delight, or pleasure in life.  When God is in His place, everything else is in theirs.  When God is most appreciated, we appreciate people, things, and marvels in the right perspective.  
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« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2004, 10:10:36 AM »

Hi LdyBluEyez79,

This answer is a little late and may not even be a very good one but I thought I'd comment anyway. These might be good scriptures but I'm not sure you need to use scriptures (more below):

"Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding." --Proverbs 4:7

"Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. " -Proverbs 4:5

I believe the person you are talking about is what is called a "formalist," but since I know very little about it I can't say much on that subject. Except that I believe it means that he's taken a "formal" approach to being a Christian which can be a sin in itself.

He sounds like he has very little spiritual understanding (compassion) which in my experience at least is what leads to Christian arrogance. We can use Jesus as an example of how understanding is the best way to use one's wisdom. Jesus had every reason to treat us like how that person sounds like he is treating you yet Jesus' understanding and compassionate nature was equivalent to His intelligence. So He had the right amount of both. So He was perfect in attitude and spirit.

I think the best way to approach someone who uses a formal attitude in Christ is to use Christ's spiritual attitude in return. This person is apparently lacking that type of "Christ" personality. And if anyone has an excuse to be like that it would've been Jesus.

So if anything I think Jesus serves as a good example to bring up if an example is needed. Not necessarily biblical quotes.

I've often heard that biblical stories have the biggest affect on people... maybe using Jesus as an example would soften this person's spirit up a bit but making known that even Jesus did not act like he is acting.
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