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Author Topic: A Unscriptural and Dangerous Doctrine  (Read 4974 times)
Amisk
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« on: July 14, 2007, 09:09:38 PM »

"It is a unscriptural and dangerous doctrine that there is any state of grace in this world from which we cannot fall. Probation does not end the moment we believe in Jesus, but rather when we quit the body."
Commissioner Samuel Logan Brengle   D.D. O.F
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nChrist
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« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2007, 09:26:04 PM »

Hello Amisk,

This would simply be a matter of opinion. This is debated in detail in several threads already on the forum, and it will always be a matter of opinion. There are good and Biblical arguments on both sides.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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Amisk
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2007, 05:38:37 PM »

Hello Amisk,

This would simply be a matter of opinion. This is debated in detail in several threads already on the forum, and it will always be a matter of opinion. There are good and Biblical arguments on both sides.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hi Tom:

Call it a matter of opinion if one likes. On the other hand one had better be sure that it is not more than an opinion for one's eternal soul depends on it.

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." John 8: 31-34  Smiley
 
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nChrist
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2007, 06:37:44 PM »

Hello Amisk,

I'm well aware of arguments on both sides of the issue, and hosts of Scriptures were used in already existing threads on the forum. I won't be debating this topic again. I'll simply say that there is a lot of confusion regarding:  (1) Israel and the Kingdom versus THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST, (2) The Law versus Grace, (3) Times before the CROSS versus times after the CROSS, (4) Specific Promises of GOD and who they were delivered to.

There are many portions of Scripture taken out of context and misunderstood. In fact, some portions of Scripture mishandled would indicate that Salvation isn't possible at all. I'll just suggest that you read existing threads, but I won't argue about it.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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ravenloche
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« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2007, 08:53:28 PM »


I will not state my stand at this moment, but rather, let me ask a question.

Did not Paul tell us to press on for the mark of the prize of the high calling in
Christ Jesus. If our eyes are on Jesus, our heart full of his love, and our will
submited unto him we will have no worries when we stand before him.
Not because of what we have done, but because of the shed blood of our
savior. 

I am so glad that God does not see me for who I was, He does not even see
me for who I am, but he looks thru the rose colored glasses called the blood
of calvary, and He sees me for who I will be in Him.

respectfully yours in Yeshua

ravenloche
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if not you, who? if not now, when?
if not here, where? if it is to be it is up to me!
John 3:17 for he came not into the world to condemn the world, but that the world thru him might be saved! Rom 8:1 there is therefore no con-
demnation to those who are in
christ Jesus...
Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2007, 09:00:45 PM »


I will not state my stand at this moment, but rather, let me ask a question.

Did not Paul tell us to press on for the mark of the prize of the high calling in
Christ Jesus. If our eyes are on Jesus, our heart full of his love, and our will
submited unto him we will have no worries when we stand before him.
Not because of what we have done, but because of the shed blood of our
savior. 

I am so glad that God does not see me for who I was, He does not even see
me for who I am, but he looks thru the rose colored glasses called the blood
of calvary, and He sees me for who I will be in Him.

respectfully yours in Yeshua

ravenloche


Amen!

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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Brother Jerry
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2007, 11:42:39 AM »

Double  Amen to that ravenloche
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Sincerely
Brother Jerry

------
I am like most fathers.  I, like most, want more for my children than I have.

I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2007, 01:31:20 PM »

I don't understand this "probation" thing. I have never been on probation with the Lord, but I have been born again since May 18, 1963 when at the age of 17 I called upon the Lord and asked for forgiveness, and He SAVED ME! While I can sin and unfortunately do at times, I cannot lose my salvation and don't "fall from grace". What I do is temporarily sever my fellowship with my Lord until I come to Him and seek cleansing from that sin--much like your earthly father who only wanted you to confess to what you did.

One day I did something when I was 11. This was right after I joined the boy scouts. My dad asked if I knew anything about it, and I said, "Yes, I did it." I had never done that before but had always lied. I shocked him so bad (Not to mention myself) that I didn't get my usual beating for the "crime". I learned that day that the old saying, "Honesty is the best policy" is actually true. All God wants is for us to say, "Father, I have sinned. Please forgive me."
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nChrist
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« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 01:18:36 AM »

Brothers, Amen and Amen!

Our Salvation was purchased by the shed blood of JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS. My forgiveness is because of HIS Work, not mine. I don't have any holiness or righteousness of my own, but I'm seen through and in JESUS CHRIST. Any holiness or righteousness belongs to JESUS, not me. My faith in JESUS CHRIST was accounted unto me as righteousness, but any real righteousness or holiness is in JESUS CHRIST alone - not me.

I do the best I can to obey GOD'S Will and live a life that will be pleasing to HIM, but I fail pretty often and all Christians do. This doesn't hint that I think Christians have a license to sin, but we do have a mediator who will forgive our sins, and HIS Blood on the CROSS was more than enough for all who accept HIM as LORD and SAVIOUR. We can pray for GOD'S Help in resisting sin and temptation, but there aren't any Christians in this short life without sin. We must remember why JESUS went to the CROSS in our place. HE fulfilled the Law - something that no man could do. ONLY HE was the perfect Sacrifice, and ONLY HIS Work makes us fit for the inheritance with the Saints in LIGHT.

Brothers and Sisters, I'm very happy that I don't depend on my righteousness, holiness, or works for Salvation because I'd never be Saved. Salvation must be a GIFT because NO MAN can earn or deserve it. I don't depend on any man, especially me. I depend on the Righteousness, Holiness, Perfection, and Works of JESUS CHRIST, and HE never fails. All men fail, and I will never have anything to boast about in myself. If I have anything to boast about, it will be in JESUS CHRIST - NOT ME! When I go to heaven, it will be because of my faith in JESUS CHRIST and HIS WORK completed in total perfection. Nothing I do is in total perfection, and nothing I do is righteous or holy.

I'm not looking for my own righteousness because I'll never find it. I'm not trying to establish my own righteousness because that's impossible for flesh and blood to do. I will depend 100% on the Righteousness and Holiness of JESUS CHRIST. There are many Biblical reasons why JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE. ONLY JESUS CHRIST can take me to Heaven, and there's nothing I can personally do to get myself to Heaven. SO, my Faith for Salvation is in JESUS CHRIST alone - certainly not myself or any other man. Any person depending on themselves to get to Heaven will never get there because JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY WAY! Regardless of how hard I try, if I say that I am without sin, the truth isn't in me.

BUT, my LORD and SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST, is without sin. HIS Work makes me fit - not mine! HIS Righteousness and Holiness is "IMPUTED" to me, and that's the only Righteousness and Holiness I have. In other words, I have NOTHING without JESUS CHRIST! Brothers, Sisters, and friends, you don't have anything without JESUS CHRIST either. If you want Salvation, it won't be something you can work for or earn - you won't deserve it! It will be a GIFT by the GRACE of GOD that you don't deserve at all. Faith In JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY WAY! Once you understand completely that JESUS CHRIST is the ONLY WAY, the only thing left is love for HIM and appreciation for what HE did for us. Love and appreciation for JESUS CHRIST leads to wanting to please and obey HIM. ------- HOWEVER! - HE already knows that we can't please and obey HIM completely!  ------   There would have been no need for the CROSS if men were capable of completely obeying and pleasing GOD!    ------     NO man has ever been able to completely please and obey GOD, so JESUS CHRIST and the CROSS is the only way.   -------     Our righteousness is as filthy rags, and that's why flesh and blood can't inherit the things of Heaven. This is why Christians will be given a Glorified Body like the one JESUS CHRIST has. We ARE NOT FIT for the Inheritance! ONLY JESUS CHRIST makes us fit for the inheritance, and it's because of HIS WORK - NOT OUR WORK! So, why is it that we have nothing to boast about?      --------      SIMPLE - we are nothing without JESUS CHRIST!   ---------   So, let all Christians BOAST IN JESUS CHRIST and nothing else!      --------   JESUS CHRIST is ALL we have to boast about!


Love In Christ,
Tom
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Faithin1
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« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2007, 09:49:47 PM »

Amen and Amen!  Nothing but the blood of Jesus! 

Eph 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Heb. 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 
david749
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« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2011, 01:44:12 AM »

Jesus:   "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last hour."     (John 6: 39)


Paul to Christians:   "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, who also has SEALED us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a deposit."   (2 Cor. 1: 21-22)


Paul to Christians:   "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were SEALED for the day of redemption."   (Eph 4:30)
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