Man AND Woman Deceived?

[Symphony]

I agree with Paul in 1 Timothy 2 that woman first was deceived.  

But was it ONLY woman who was deceived?

When man took from the woman also to eat, was'nt man too, effectively, "deceived"??

[Whitehorse]

Adam, unfortunately, knew what He was doing. He didn't do it because he didn't know better-He did it because he wanted to:

I Timothy 2:14
2:14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

[Symphony]

Utoh.  The plot thickens.

[Whitehorse]

Heehee!  

[aw]

A careful study of the conversation between Eve and satan will demonstrate how, as today, we magnify God's strictness while minimizing His goodness.

Satan's idea was that God was holding back something good from them and he appealed to the 3 basics of all sin- lust of the eyes (tree's fruit must have looked wonderful), flesh (being hungry), and the pride of life(being like gods).

He tried to pull the same shanaingans on the Lord-----oooops, big mistake!!!!

aw

[Symphony]

Thank you, aw...

Yep, WhtH, mine in RSV reads...

"...and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."(1 Tim. 2:14 RSV)


Hmmm, so Eve didn't know better.   But Adam did know better.

Well, that WOULD make sense, since the context there, earlier, is about not permitting a "...woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." (vs. 12)  And you wouldn't want someone around in authority, if they don't really know any better.

So the man was willful.  He knew better.  The woman merely didn't know any better.

[Reba]

The power of a woman.

[aw]

I really believe that Adam loved Eve so much that he could not bear the thought of ever being separated from her. After all, scriptural death is a "SEPARATION" with the physical being the spirit from the body and the second death separation from God.

Hence the Lord's crying out "WHY have you forsaken Me?" At that point He must have been separated from God the Father?

aw

[Allinall]

I really believe that Adam loved Eve so much that he could not bear the thought of ever being separated from her. After all, scriptural death is a "SEPARATION" with the physical being the spirit from the body and the second death separation from God.

It's really hard to say why Adam chose to disobey God; whether it was for his love of Eve, or his pride, or his desire to please her is hard to tell.  However, we do know one thing.  Eve's punishment for disobedience was pain in childbirth.  She was, after all, deceived into her disobedience.  It was Adam who understood the consequences on the whole and still chose to sin.  Our sin nature comes from his choice, as does the consequence of death.  And good statement on what death truly is!  Separation.

Hence the Lord's crying out "WHY have you forsaken Me?" At that point He must have been separated from God the Father?

Absolutely!  The beauty of the payment of our sin debt - death, both spiritual and physical.  The even greater beauty of the prize - resurrection, life eternal!

[Whitehorse]

Thank you, aw...

Yep, WhtH, mine in RSV reads...

"...and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."(1 Tim. 2:14 RSV)


Hmmm, so Eve didn't know better.   But Adam did know better.

Well, that WOULD make sense, since the context there, earlier, is about not permitting a "...woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent." (vs. 12)  And you wouldn't want someone around in authority, if they don't really know any better.

So the man was willful.  He knew better.  The woman merely didn't know any better.

This brings up a really interesting point. Adam did let the woman take control at that moment, didn't he? He was obviously with her, and allowed her to make this decision and she led *him* into it. And who does God call into account first? Adam. Yes, probably partially because he wasn't deceived and she was, but moreso I think, because he was the man. The authority figure. And he relegated it, at least at that moment, to Eve.

[Petro]

Eve ate because she saw something in the fruit, and desired soemthing, which the serpent pointed out to her;

Satan said;

Gen 3
5  For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

No doubt she was looking at it;

6  And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She ate because she desired to be wise; o know good and evil.

Then the scriptures simply say Adam, did eat.

Doesn't that sound just like a man, eat first ask questions later.

It is clear to me that Eve was not yet created when God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree of knowledge of Good
 and Evil.  Gehn 2:17.

From Eves answer to the Serpents question, it is evident that her response added words God never spoke to Adam, and from this it would appear Adam had not conveyed Gods words to Eve verbatim, and it is clear this is where the decpetion occured.

She did know exactly the commandment of God.

No doubt she touched it first and realizing she had not died, making the Word of God a lie, there was nothing left but to eat, since it was pleasant to the eye, and good for food.

She did not believe Adam's words spoken to her concedrning Gods comandment, much less God's, in esence she usurped authority.

She ate first, and when he saw her eat, and saw she did not die, he took at did eat.

No doubt for the very same reasons, she ate.

The tree was plaesant to the eye, and good for food, and able to make one wise.

Her sin was that of being decieved, His was willfull disobedience.

They both died spiritually that very moment.

This is why, it is written;

Rom 5
19  For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

1Cor 15
45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a life giving spirit.

God Bless,

Petro

[Whitehorse]

Well, I think that's a very keen insight about Adam giving in because the sentence of physical death was delayed for a time. God said they would die, but He didn't say it would be immediate. That's a very good point.  But I don't think they died spiritually, because God took away their fig leaves, which were self-contrived and had no blood in them, and replaced them with animal skins that did require a blood sacrifice. And God slew the animals with His own hand. In the midst of their rebellion, He gave a way out. Isn't that just like Him?

[Symphony]

WH:  This brings up a really interesting point. Adam did let the woman take control at that moment, didn't he? He was obviously with her, and allowed her to make this decision and she led *him* into it. And who does God call into account first? Adam. Yes, probably partially because he wasn't deceived and she was, but moreso I think, because he was the man. The authority figure. And he relegated it, at least at that moment, to Eve.


Thus, the frequent refrain:  "Women run the world"?

Although, I might add, "'men's lust for women', that runs the world"?

(Which is why Paul's rather strict prohibition on women being quiet in church, and not leading?--to wit, ordination of gay ministers(the "beast") in the Epis. church arguablly largely influenced, by the earlier ordination of women, women therefore having a significant "vote" in that decision, unknowingly letting "the beast" out of its cage...?)

Ahhh, so man let's the woman control, who lets the beast in the door...

Woman doesn't know any better; man knows better, but willfully contradicts his own knowledge...

Instead of telling Eve to put that apple down...

[rafter]

I think the thing that bothers me deeply is Adam being listening to the whole conversation. He should have put a stop to it when the serpent starting talking to Eve.  On some level he must have desired to be his own god.  The good and evil both had the same root. It was human good and human evil.....
It is still a struggle we contend with daily. We want to do our own thing. The original sin has not changed. It has just broaden itself....... Enlarged it's borders. Our carnel man is still a very close brother to Adam's fallen nature.....
That's why we must crucify our flesh. Cut it off from all opportunity to sin. Just as Adam should have cut the serpent off... right at the source.